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Post by Envie on Jul 11, 2016 13:19:12 GMT -5
Season 1 - Episode 7: You Win or You dieRe-Watch Date: Saturday, August 6th 2016. IMDB Page: www.imdb.com/title/tt1837863/?ref_=ttep_ep7Runtime: 57 minutes Release date: May 22, 2011 Ned confronts Cersei about her secrets; Jon takes his Night's Watch vows; Drogo promises to lead the Dorthraki to King's Landing.
*NOTE: Please wait until the day of the re-watch to begin the discussion so that everyone has time to join in once they've watched since we're all in different time-zones and parts of the world.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 6, 2016 13:25:01 GMT -5
This episode is so frustrating when you know how the rest of the show goes.
The only parts I really enjoyed were Tywin's introduction, Dany's scenes, and the short one between Osha/Luwin/Theon.
Ned looks incredibly stupid in this episode, I know his honor gets in the way but this episode especially it was just bad decision after bad decision. He should've told Robert about his kids.
Littlefinger's awful brothel speech with two women fucking, still one of the worst choices this show has ever made.
Renly...why do people like Renly? He's so unfit to be king. Yes, this is coming from a massive Stannis fan, but still. I can't believe he got anyone to be behind him.
Jon, who has grown to be one of my favorite characters is such a whiny bitch in this episode. It's hard to watch.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 15:16:02 GMT -5
This episode is so frustrating when you know how the rest of the show goes. The only parts I really enjoyed were Tywin's introduction, Dany's scenes, and the short one between Osha/Luwin/Theon. Ned looks incredibly stupid in this episode, I know his honor gets in the way but this episode especially it was just bad decision after bad decision. He should've told Robert about his kids. Littlefinger's awful brothel speech with two women fucking, still one of the worst choices this show has ever made. Renly...why do people like Renly? He's so unfit to be king. Yes, this is coming from a massive Stannis fan, but still. I can't believe he got anyone to be behind him.Jon, who has grown to be one of my favorite characters is such a whiny bitch in this episode. It's hard to watch. Renly had a point though. Ned and Robert didn't care about succession when they stole the IT from Viserys. They did what they thought was best for the realm. That's not really much different than what Renly was trying to do. Like he said, good soldier =/= good king. I know there's a lot of Stannis fans here, but I happen to agree with Renly that Stannis would have been a terrible king. Sorry.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 6, 2016 16:08:52 GMT -5
This episode is so frustrating when you know how the rest of the show goes. The only parts I really enjoyed were Tywin's introduction, Dany's scenes, and the short one between Osha/Luwin/Theon. Ned looks incredibly stupid in this episode, I know his honor gets in the way but this episode especially it was just bad decision after bad decision. He should've told Robert about his kids. Littlefinger's awful brothel speech with two women fucking, still one of the worst choices this show has ever made. Renly...why do people like Renly? He's so unfit to be king. Yes, this is coming from a massive Stannis fan, but still. I can't believe he got anyone to be behind him.Jon, who has grown to be one of my favorite characters is such a whiny bitch in this episode. It's hard to watch. Renly had a point though. Ned and Robert didn't care about succession when they stole the IT from Viserys. They did what they thought was best for the realm. That's not really much different than what Renly was trying to do. Like he said, good soldier =/= good king. I know there's a lot of Stannis fans here, but I happen to agree with Renly that Stannis would have been a terrible king. Sorry. The point about succession was valid, but Renly never showed that he had any kingly qualities other than being nice to people. At least with Stannis you got the idea that while he's harsh, he was fair. Renly felt like he lacked several clues. Stannis, IMO would've been a more competent ruler. Plus he'd actually faced hardships. Renly had everything handed to him. Or at least it felt like he did.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 16:14:19 GMT -5
Renly had a point though. Ned and Robert didn't care about succession when they stole the IT from Viserys. They did what they thought was best for the realm. That's not really much different than what Renly was trying to do. Like he said, good soldier =/= good king. I know there's a lot of Stannis fans here, but I happen to agree with Renly that Stannis would have been a terrible king. Sorry. The point about succession was valid, but Renly never showed that he had any kingly qualities other than being nice to people. At least with Stannis you got the idea that while he's harsh, he was fair. Renly felt like he lacked several clues. Stannis, IMO would've been a more competent ruler. Plus he'd actually faced hardships. Renly had everything handed to him. Or at least it felt like he did. We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 18:37:29 GMT -5
Lucky you two finished the Renly chat or I wouldn't have held back I forgot how amazing Drogo was. That speech is a lot cooler when it's not repeated half a dozen times in season six though. As for the wine assassination, I stand by that it's a plot hole in Varys' motivations. What Jorah did was based purely on his feelings for Dany, and unless his letters to Varys were all about how beautiful he thought Daenerys was and how much he loved her, there is no way Varys would've known the attempt would be stopped. Also, if Varys never intended to kill Dany, why not just tell Ned you've cancelled it instead of being awkward about it? That said, I could accept that Varys just gave up on Dany when they went to Vaes Dothrak and only regained interest after the dragons hatched. That's more believable than him intentionally botching that attempt thanks to Jorah's feelings. Okay, I can't not mention Renly. I'd forgotten one detail about his grand throne-stealing plan: Robert wasn't even dead before he started scheming. In fact I think he may have even left the capital before Robert died. That's just cold. You could say Ned was also scheming behind his back, but he wasn't doing it for selfish reasons like Renly. This episode is so frustrating when you know how the rest of the show goes. The only parts I really enjoyed were Tywin's introduction, Dany's scenes, and the short one between Osha/Luwin/Theon. Ned looks incredibly stupid in this episode, I know his honor gets in the way but this episode especially it was just bad decision after bad decision. He should've told Robert about his kids. Littlefinger's awful brothel speech with two women fucking, still one of the worst choices this show has ever made. Renly...why do people like Renly? He's so unfit to be king. Yes, this is coming from a massive Stannis fan, but still. I can't believe he got anyone to be behind him. Jon, who has grown to be one of my favorite characters is such a whiny bitch in this episode. It's hard to watch. To be fair, he has a right to be whiny. He joined so he could ascend through the ranks and ride out as a ranger with his uncle. He'd just learned Benjen had gone missing so that part was gone. He acted honourably when training, and just because he was better than everyone else Thorne hated him and took away the only other thing he wanted. So I'd say his bitching is justified.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 18:59:12 GMT -5
I think it's a little unfair to criticize Renly leaving KL before Robert actually died. At least if your not going to criticize Stannis even more. He left his brother and king completely surrounded by the Lannisters without so much as a word of the twincest or why he was fleeing to Dragonstone. I know people love to go on about Robert not believing him, but that's a weak excuse imo.
I also don't think Jon had a right to be pissed about his position. Sam was smart enough to know what it was really about right away. Thorne definitely took joy in pissing Jon off, but in the end being picked as personal steward to the LC should be seen as an honor.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 19:14:24 GMT -5
I think it's a little unfair to criticize Renly leaving KL before Robert actually died. At least if your not going to criticize Stannis even more. He left his brother and king completely surrounded by the Lannisters without so much as a word of the twincest or why he was fleeing to Dragonstone. I know people love to go on about Robert not believing him, but that's a weak excuse imo. I also don't think Jon had a right to be pissed about his position. Sam was smart enough to know what it was really about right away. Thorne definitely took joy in pissing Jon off, but in the end being picked as personal steward to the LC should be seen as an honor. Ah shit. Didn't think about that. I've actually never even questioned that. Fuck. You've caused strife between my two most favourite characters! Did Stannis give a reason in the books for not telling Robert? I hope it wasn't just to save his own skin. I feel like I'm having an identity crisis God damnit Nic As for Jon, I think it's most to do with the timing. As I said, Benjen just went missing so he's already pissed off about something. I'd give him some leeway for that.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 6, 2016 19:57:58 GMT -5
I always figured Robert never would've bought the truth coming from Stannis. I feel like only Jon or Ned could've gotten through to him with that.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 6, 2016 20:17:31 GMT -5
I think it's a little unfair to criticize Renly leaving KL before Robert actually died. At least if your not going to criticize Stannis even more. He left his brother and king completely surrounded by the Lannisters without so much as a word of the twincest or why he was fleeing to Dragonstone. I know people love to go on about Robert not believing him, but that's a weak excuse imo. I also don't think Jon had a right to be pissed about his position. Sam was smart enough to know what it was really about right away. Thorne definitely took joy in pissing Jon off, but in the end being picked as personal steward to the LC should be seen as an honor. You make a good point about Stannis, though, he should have at least tried to get through to his brother. But he didn't even make the attempt. Renly was correct, but I don't think he would have made a good ruler and really netiher would have Stannis. Stannis would have been competent, but a good ruler, not so sure about that. Nonetheless, that's nor here more there. Agree about Jon being whinny, his sense of entitlement is still there. He is a good kid of course but that doesn't take away from the fact that he was raised a lord and with that came a certain sense of entitlement. Ned, oh Ned. Just one bad move after another. Like day dreamer said it's incredibly frustrating to watch this episode knowing everything that will be happening in the next few episodes. For all his honor Ned was way too naive and trusting, just a bad combination. I enjoyed Dany's scenes, the entire first season is very good for her and her makeup was killer, she looked so beautiful. Drogo although awesome was completely scary, Dany tamed her speech in season 6. Because you have Drogo claiming he will rape the woman and enslave the children, I don't think Dany feels the same way now. At the moment you are like, fuck yeah, and then you think about it and you're like, oh hell no.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 6, 2016 20:24:33 GMT -5
I don't know who's turn it is to do the Symbolims and Foreshadowing thread but I found a really neat nugget.
After the scene between Ned and Littlefinger we transition to Jon taking his oath and Ghose shows up at the end with a dead hand. Get it? Dead Hand. Oh Ned....
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 6, 2016 21:51:51 GMT -5
I did like Sam's wizard line though. Love he and Jon's friendship. I so hope they meet again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 22:56:45 GMT -5
I always figured Robert never would've bought the truth coming from Stannis. I feel like only Jon or Ned could've gotten through to him with that. We'll never know because Stannis didn't even try.
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 7, 2016 3:35:46 GMT -5
I'd rewatch this now but my means of watching it free legally online in HD is supposedly running some kind of "maintenance" at the moment. I mean I have the DVD... but that would require me going into the other room and finding it and a bunch of other shit. And I could watch it illegally online but I don't feel much like finding a decent link for that either. So I'll just wait until the maintenance is over and write up my review tomorrow. I'm not too big on this episode though. That LF-Ros-Aremca scene is major
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Post by Envie on Aug 7, 2016 12:25:40 GMT -5
I don't know who's turn it is to do the Symbolims and Foreshadowing thread but I found a really neat nugget. After the scene between Ned and Littlefinger we transition to Jon taking his oath and Ghose shows up at the end with a dead hand. Get it? Dead Hand. Oh Ned.... That's pretty funny - wonder if they did that intentionally or not? I won't get time to watch until tonight, I had another long working weekend but I'm off tomorrow and Tuesday. If you or @fatherofdragons or anyone else (hint hint!) wants to take this one, I'd be grateful as I may not get time until Tuesday to write.
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