Post by Balerion's Whiskers on Jul 12, 2016 16:08:30 GMT -5
The Reed kids are small in stature, Meera hardly bigger than Bran and they have some odd ways and skills. This leads me to suspect that the CotF and humans intermarried at some point in the distant past.
When Meera and Jojen were presented at the feast in Winterfell, Meera was presented with the higher station...
At the foot of the hall, the doors opened and a gust of cold air made the torches flame brighter for an instant. Alebelly led two new guests into the feast. "The Lady Meera of House Reed," the rotund guardsman bellowed over the clamor. "With her brother, Jojen, of Greywater Watch."
Now we know that the laws of inheritance in Westeros, favors the male, regardless of the birth order, so this seems very odd. It was a Winterfell retainer who announced them, and he wouldn't have had a clue as to who they were unless they told him...he's trained to announce the titles as given to him...so what's up with that? (some suspect that their mother is Ashara Dayne ...maybe, maybe not)
It seems that the CotF have an equality between the sexes too.
"They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with weirwood bows and flying snares".
Meera also has some interesting skills that seem more CotF than human
"The gods give many gifts, Bran. My sister is a hunter. It is given to her to run swiftly, and stand so still she seems to vanish. She has sharp ears, keen eyes, a steady hand with net and spear. She can breathe mud and fly through trees."
And we're pretty certain that she's speaking of Howland when she's telling the story of tKotLT
Bran was almost certain he had never heard this story. "Did he have green dreams like Jojen?"
"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."
Then there is the oath they swore that Bran had never heard...
"To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater," they said together. "Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you."
"I swear it by earth and water," said the boy in green.
"I swear it by bronze and iron," his sister said.
"We swear it by ice and fire," they finished together.
Bran groped for words. Was he supposed to swear something back to them? Their oath was not one he had been taught. "May your winters be short and your summers bountiful," he said. That was usually a good thing to say. "Rise. I'm Brandon Stark."
This oath seems very old and seems to have more meaning than just a pledge of fealty to a Lord.
'Earth and Water"...CotF?
"Bronze and Iron"... First Men?
"Ice and Fire"...????
Could this be the pact that both races pledged to on the Isle of Faces?
"There they forged the Pact. The First Men were given the coastlands, the high plains and bright meadows, the mountains and bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's, and no more weirwoods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm. So the gods might bear witness to the signing, every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward, the sacred order of green men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces."
No one was allowed on the Isle of Faces after that, but Howland was able to visit it without harm.
"The lad knew the magics of the crannogs," she continued, "but he wanted more. Our people seldom travel far from home, you know. We're a small folk, and our ways seem queer to some, so the big people do not always treat us kindly. But this lad was bolder than most, and one day when he had grown to manhood he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces."
"No one visits the Isle of Faces," objected Bran. "That's where the green men live."
"It was the green men he meant to find. So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork."
Did he meet the green men?"
"Yes," said Meera, "but that's another story, and not for me to tell. My prince asked for knights."
Once they reach the Cave, Jjen has more to say about both peoples
"What will I know?" Bran asked the Reeds afterward, when they came with torches burning brightly in their hand, to carry him back to a small chamber off the big cavern where the singers had made beds for them to sleep. "What do the trees remember?"
"The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. Food and fire and rest had helped restore him after the ordeals of their journey, but he seemed sadder now, sullen, with a weary, haunted look about the eyes. "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."
Ok, so we have these crannogmen who can do some extraordinary things in nature and who had one of their own welcomed on to the Isle of Faces where no one is supposed to go. They know things that have been forgotten even in Winterfell.
It appears that they share some common ancestry and knowledge.
What do you think? Are Jojen and Meera more than human in the sense that they have CotF blood, or were these skills just taught by close association with the CotF?
Why could Howland go to the Isle of Faces?
Why did he want to go?
What do you think he learned?
Will we ever 'meet' Howland Reed?
Will the pact of 'ice and fire' be important to the end game?
(remember, no show talk at all!)
edited to add...
Oh yeah, Meera carries an old iron helmet...there are no knights in the Neck, what's up with that???
When Meera and Jojen were presented at the feast in Winterfell, Meera was presented with the higher station...
At the foot of the hall, the doors opened and a gust of cold air made the torches flame brighter for an instant. Alebelly led two new guests into the feast. "The Lady Meera of House Reed," the rotund guardsman bellowed over the clamor. "With her brother, Jojen, of Greywater Watch."
Now we know that the laws of inheritance in Westeros, favors the male, regardless of the birth order, so this seems very odd. It was a Winterfell retainer who announced them, and he wouldn't have had a clue as to who they were unless they told him...he's trained to announce the titles as given to him...so what's up with that? (some suspect that their mother is Ashara Dayne ...maybe, maybe not)
It seems that the CotF have an equality between the sexes too.
"They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with weirwood bows and flying snares".
Meera also has some interesting skills that seem more CotF than human
"The gods give many gifts, Bran. My sister is a hunter. It is given to her to run swiftly, and stand so still she seems to vanish. She has sharp ears, keen eyes, a steady hand with net and spear. She can breathe mud and fly through trees."
And we're pretty certain that she's speaking of Howland when she's telling the story of tKotLT
Bran was almost certain he had never heard this story. "Did he have green dreams like Jojen?"
"No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear."
Then there is the oath they swore that Bran had never heard...
"To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater," they said together. "Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you."
"I swear it by earth and water," said the boy in green.
"I swear it by bronze and iron," his sister said.
"We swear it by ice and fire," they finished together.
Bran groped for words. Was he supposed to swear something back to them? Their oath was not one he had been taught. "May your winters be short and your summers bountiful," he said. That was usually a good thing to say. "Rise. I'm Brandon Stark."
This oath seems very old and seems to have more meaning than just a pledge of fealty to a Lord.
'Earth and Water"...CotF?
"Bronze and Iron"... First Men?
"Ice and Fire"...????
Could this be the pact that both races pledged to on the Isle of Faces?
"There they forged the Pact. The First Men were given the coastlands, the high plains and bright meadows, the mountains and bogs, but the deep woods were to remain forever the children's, and no more weirwoods were to be put to the axe anywhere in the realm. So the gods might bear witness to the signing, every tree on the island was given a face, and afterward, the sacred order of green men was formed to keep watch over the Isle of Faces."
No one was allowed on the Isle of Faces after that, but Howland was able to visit it without harm.
"The lad knew the magics of the crannogs," she continued, "but he wanted more. Our people seldom travel far from home, you know. We're a small folk, and our ways seem queer to some, so the big people do not always treat us kindly. But this lad was bolder than most, and one day when he had grown to manhood he decided he would leave the crannogs and visit the Isle of Faces."
"No one visits the Isle of Faces," objected Bran. "That's where the green men live."
"It was the green men he meant to find. So he donned a shirt sewn with bronze scales, like mine, took up a leathern shield and a three-pronged spear, like mine, and paddled a little skin boat down the Green Fork."
Did he meet the green men?"
"Yes," said Meera, "but that's another story, and not for me to tell. My prince asked for knights."
Once they reach the Cave, Jjen has more to say about both peoples
"What will I know?" Bran asked the Reeds afterward, when they came with torches burning brightly in their hand, to carry him back to a small chamber off the big cavern where the singers had made beds for them to sleep. "What do the trees remember?"
"The secrets of the old gods," said Jojen Reed. Food and fire and rest had helped restore him after the ordeals of their journey, but he seemed sadder now, sullen, with a weary, haunted look about the eyes. "Truths the First Men knew, forgotten now in Winterfell … but not in the wet wild. We live closer to the green in our bogs and crannogs, and we remember. Earth and water, soil and stone, oaks and elms and willows, they were here before us all and will still remain when we are gone."
Ok, so we have these crannogmen who can do some extraordinary things in nature and who had one of their own welcomed on to the Isle of Faces where no one is supposed to go. They know things that have been forgotten even in Winterfell.
It appears that they share some common ancestry and knowledge.
What do you think? Are Jojen and Meera more than human in the sense that they have CotF blood, or were these skills just taught by close association with the CotF?
Why could Howland go to the Isle of Faces?
Why did he want to go?
What do you think he learned?
Will we ever 'meet' Howland Reed?
Will the pact of 'ice and fire' be important to the end game?
(remember, no show talk at all!)
edited to add...
Oh yeah, Meera carries an old iron helmet...there are no knights in the Neck, what's up with that???