Envie
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Post by Envie on Sept 9, 2016 21:34:04 GMT -5
Season 2 Episode 7 - A Man Without HonorRe-Watch Date: Saturday, September 10th, 2016. HBO Viewer's Guide Page: viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-2/episode-7/home/17Runtime: 55 minutes Release date: May 13th, 2012 Jaime meets a distant relative; Dany receives an invitation to the House of the Undying; Theon leads a search party; Jon loses his way in the wilderness; Cersei counsels Sansa.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 10, 2016 19:51:17 GMT -5
I've always liked this episode. So I'll enjoy this s2 rewatch when I get around to it in a few hours.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Sept 10, 2016 19:52:00 GMT -5
"A Man Without Honor" really hits the nail on the head with that theme as nearly every scene in this episode was exactly about that ... honor, or loyalty, or love and what people do for it (or don't do for it and betray it). This was actually a great episode if anyone wanted to try their hand at themes/symbolism/foreshadowing. I don't know if I'll get time this weekend for it and have been bogging down on that part of the project for the past few episodes. This one is full of great symbolism and parallels too... anyone interested? I really loved a lot of the scenes. I wrote up a detailed list of all the pairings over in the rate the episode and they probably should go here for discussion but I felt those were the main reason this episode was nearly a 10 for me. I love good pairings of the best actors with great dialogue and this one delivers at least half a dozen great scenes on that. This episode also narrows in on the man without honor Theon as much as it does Jaime. Here is the final blow Theon delivers in his rotten betrayal. Even he can't look at those burned bodies for long at the end of the episode's close ... he realizes he's a true killer now, of children. It doesn't even matter that they're not really Bran and Rickon ... the fact he killed two innocent children and that those two children paid the price of their lives so that Theon could impress his family (who don't care) and scare the people of Winterfell is just awful and he has to know it at that moment. I also loved the parallel between Theon's desperate hunt for the boys with the dogs as they're on the run and how he himself will become the one on the run much later escaping Winterfell himself with Sansa. Karma really is a bitch for Theon.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 2:52:30 GMT -5
Alright, getting started. So this thread will be pretty heavy with my live-posting spam for the next hour or so. Be warned. Firstly I love how the Theon and Jon storylines both open the next morning after where we last saw them. Both had a night with a wildling woman and wake up out of their element. For Jon his night of spooning against the cold ends with morning wood and his and Ygritte's reactions to this. Jon's made very uncomfortable by this development. While Ygritte's very comfortable with it. With Theon he awakes to find Osha snuck away and stole away his insurance policy for his WF occupation. The Stark boys are gone! So now he's gotta go punching Black Lorren until his hand hurts and riding through the woods with hounds making a big fuss to feebly convince people that this wasn't his fault. The poor kid. The moral is of course that sleeping beside a wildling woman means waking to some surprise or another. It's good that David Nutter did these two eps back-to-back btw because that meant he could have very similar shots of the two groups when we last see them in 206 and when we first see them in 207.
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 3:04:03 GMT -5
Ah the digitally-deepened voice of the s2 Mountain. He's best forgotten. I pretend that he's a Clegane cousin Arya mistakes for the Mountain so I don't have to think too much about the inconsistency. If only there was a half-decent retcon reason to alter one's head-canon about the Daario recast.
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 4:14:44 GMT -5
Took a break from the ep. to drink with my brother. Anyhow. s2 Roose is hilarious. "Too many prisoners." All of his suggestions to Robb that "I'm a piece of shit but by no means suspect me of putting you on the receiving end of my modus operandi". And here we meet the lovely Karstark. While his son Harald is/was a weenie (depending on whether or not he's dead which the HBO Viewer's Guide has yet to confirm), Rickard at least stood up for himself instead of endlessly deferring to those above him. He was still a poophead of the highest degree. But at least he had a bit of character.
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 4:20:39 GMT -5
Aaaand the first D and D-scripted/not Vanessa Taylor-written Robb and Talisa scene is actually GOOD. Whadd'ya know.
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 4:25:42 GMT -5
"I'm about to spend the rest of my life being treated like a fool and a eunuch by my own people. Ask yourself 'is there anything I wouldn't do to stop that from happening?'"
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 4:31:18 GMT -5
Dany: And you are too familiar. Jorah: Btw was his eulogy for Irri really, "She was a good 'un..."?
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Post by konradsmith on Sept 11, 2016 4:51:46 GMT -5
Guess who's back, back, back. Back again. Jaime's back. Tell a friend.
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on Sept 11, 2016 9:22:53 GMT -5
Your commentary is always entertaining konradsmith. The forums are dead right now so go ahead and spam all you want, we need some decent conversation in these re-watch episode discussion threads. Since I'm not sure I'll do a parallel/symbolism thread, maybe I'll just stick my thoughts and bits of symbolism here for the episode. One thing that intrigued me was this during the famous Arya/Tywin convo: It's interesting to me that there's a slight hint of similarity between Cersei and Ayra here, as there will be later in Season 6 when Arya is talking to Lady Crane and advising her that Cersei wouldn't be sad at Joffrey's death, she'd be angry and want revenge. That's exactly how Cersei reacted too, even though Arya wasn't there at the purple wedding to know that, it's just what she knows of Cersei. Despite hating her and knowing she caused the whole war that's destroyed her family in the first place, Arya can relate to Cersei. Both of them want revenge over those who have wronged them and both are going to extremes to get that revenge. Both of them are strong-willed females who would have been better off born males so they could lead and fight but instead must rely on their cunning and assassinations to get rid of their enemies.
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Post by dje on Sept 11, 2016 10:09:15 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite episodes of the series... My favorite scenes are between Arya and Tywin, they're all fantastic, and at the end with Jaime and Catelyn, When he talks about having more Honor than good ole dead ned, and what was is bastards name... Brienne, no, that's not it...that line kills me every time.
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Post by moiaf on Oct 11, 2016 11:05:40 GMT -5
An interesting bit of foreshadowing, Quaith tells Jorah that he will travel to Old Valyrua. I totally had forgotten that she said that to him. Also, she called him on his betrayal, so the audience should suspect that, that would come up again.
I like Tywin and Arya, they have good rapport with each other. She also reminds him that when Aegon conquered he did it with the assistance of his sister that he was able to do what he did. A note to how women's roles are forgotten.
And here is my Dany/Jon parallel blurb:
-In Jon’s first scene they start walking, Jon is trying to find his way back to his team. He and Ygritte begin to argue about the issues between the Wilding and the Night’s Watch and who owns the land. Jon says to her that his ancestors were the First Men just like her and Ygritte then asks him why is he then fighting the Wildlings.
-In Dany’s first scene she is talking to Xaro, trying to find out dragons. He offer her his assistance/protection but Dany remind him the her people were killed and her dragons were stolen under his protection. This transitions to Jon who is waling with Ygritte. She tells him about being free, away from the social structure his grown up in. Free to be with a woman.
- in Dany’s next scene Jorah arrives, Dany is questioning whether she can take back her home, the lies her brother believe about the people of Westeros waiting for him. Jorah tells her that it can happen, that she can find allies, but Dany is not so sure anymore. He tells her to trust him but Dany doesn’t want to, she thinks she should trust anyone. Jorah tells her that no one can survive in this world without help. This transitions to Jon who Ygritte has led into an ambush. He finds himself surrounded by Wildlings.
-In Dany’s final scene she is talking to the Thirteen of Qarth asking for help, when Xaro double-crosses them all and reveals he has been in cahoots with the warlocks and they assassinate the thirteen and admit to Dany that they have her dragons. They try to capture Dany and take her to the House of the Undying but Jorah arrives just in time to rescue her.
The parallels here is that both Dany and Jon are ambushed, completely unaware that a trap had been set for them. Also, they both are beginning to see that things are not as they believe them to be. Their growth as people continues.
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