lordcarson
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 5, 2016 22:05:23 GMT -5
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Dec 5, 2016 22:28:29 GMT -5
Certainly looks like the final scene from last night! Which makes me wonder how much of everything did Ford script? Did he write the Escape for Maeve? If so, was her returning for her daughter in there, or did she finally make an independent decision? What about Abernathy and the knowledge Hale kept uploading into his memory? Did Bernard activate everyone in cold storage or did Ford?
While I didn't want William to be the MiB, I really want to know what happened to Logan. Prince Caspian looked mighty fine nude in the saddle, but I hope they let him wear something on that last gallop into the sunshine.
Oh, and the look on Hector and Armistice faces when they shot the automatic weapons... priceless.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Dec 6, 2016 7:11:30 GMT -5
Certainly looks like the final scene from last night! Which makes me wonder how much of everything did Ford script? Did he write the Escape for Maeve? If so, was her returning for her daughter in there, or did she finally make an independent decision? What about Abernathy and the knowledge Hale kept uploading into his memory? Did Bernard activate everyone in cold storage or did Ford? While I didn't want William to be the MiB, I really want to know what happened to Logan. Prince Caspian looked mighty fine nude in the saddle, but I hope they let him wear something on that last gallop into the sunshine. Oh, and the look on Hector and Armistice faces when they shot the automatic weapons... priceless. My take on it was he scripted that entire thing with Maeve, Hector and Armistice. He knew about the nasty shit the butchers were doing to the hosts down there in the body shops and that was a nice little payback. He set it up for Maeve to use Felix and Sylvester as they were the most 'useful' ones down there - easily manipulated. In fact I'd say he even knew about Felix and his little bird and wants him spared because he's actually got the right mindset for creating hosts. Maeve returning for her daughter might have been her first 'unscripted' choice - left that way intentionally, again, by Ford. She is finding the center of the maze for herself (and full consciousness) too. Suffering leads to empathy. Empathy is what keeps them from being cold blooded killers and what Ford is ultimately after. Hector and Armistice don't have that yet (maybe never will) and Ford knew it, so he scripted Maeve to leave them behind. Just my interpretation. Could be way off! It's so complicated.
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Post by Envie on Dec 6, 2016 7:18:56 GMT -5
I think I need to do a re-watch to get some semblance of theory about what happened to Stubbs. There's a shit ton of theories floating around about him on the Westworld Subreddit if you prowl that kind of place. I like it, fairly intelligent group compared to most show-fan subreddits. That's where I saw the callback to the Season 6 map too. I remember during my binge watch to episode 6 to catch up with y'all thinking I needed to pay attention to that map but then I forgot! Most would overlook it and back then it wouldn't have made as much sense but very cool twist.
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lordcarson
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Merry Christmas.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 6, 2016 10:13:58 GMT -5
stubbs watch day 3: leaning towards theory of ford drawing them away to keep them safe because he saw their potential.
my watch continues.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Dec 6, 2016 12:18:49 GMT -5
Certainly looks like the final scene from last night! Which makes me wonder how much of everything did Ford script? Did he write the Escape for Maeve? If so, was her returning for her daughter in there, or did she finally make an independent decision? What about Abernathy and the knowledge Hale kept uploading into his memory? Did Bernard activate everyone in cold storage or did Ford? While I didn't want William to be the MiB, I really want to know what happened to Logan. Prince Caspian looked mighty fine nude in the saddle, but I hope they let him wear something on that last gallop into the sunshine. Oh, and the look on Hector and Armistice faces when they shot the automatic weapons... priceless. My take on it was he scripted that entire thing with Maeve, Hector and Armistice. He knew about the nasty shit the butchers were doing to the hosts down there in the body shops and that was a nice little payback. He set it up for Maeve to use Felix and Sylvester as they were the most 'useful' ones down there - easily manipulated. In fact I'd say he even knew about Felix and his little bird and wants him spared because he's actually got the right mindset for creating hosts. Maeve returning for her daughter might have been her first 'unscripted' choice - left that way intentionally, again, by Ford. She is finding the center of the maze for herself (and full consciousness) too. Suffering leads to empathy. Empathy is what keeps them from being cold blooded killers and what Ford is ultimately after. Hector and Armistice don't have that yet (maybe never will) and Ford knew it, so he scripted Maeve to leave them behind. Just my interpretation. Could be way off! It's so complicated. On the tablet it said "escape and infiltration" as her major new narrative. So I'm pretty sure Maeve was scripted to leave and she finally became sentient when she chose to stay at the end of the season. His main reason for having Armistice and Hector's rampage was to get the security team away from his own planned massacre, I think.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Dec 6, 2016 13:21:34 GMT -5
Yeah that definitely felt like an intentional distraction and makes sense he would tie that in with Maeve.
I was disappointed she changed her mind about escape at first but then I realized just how 'human' that one little choice made Maeve. It's a brilliant bit of self choice and great writing.
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breakfest
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Post by breakfest on Dec 6, 2016 18:14:00 GMT -5
Okay I'm going to give some input, even though I don't think this is a show I want to spend too much time thinking about. Despite all the things that I'm confused about, or even irritated about, within this show, I somehow against all odds managed to enjoy the shit out of that finale. There's no denying it was entertaining, even though it spent too long on the William reveal, and it even retroactively made some things make more sense.
The trouble is, the ultimate reasoning for things making more sense feels like papering over the cracks. It's basically that Ford was behind it the whole time! So why did we end episode 9 with Bernard's dramatic shooting? Why the whole deal with Theresa? What was Ford's plan for Bernard? There was so much narrative rug-pulling throughout the season I feel like it really lost a lot of resonance in its payoff.
I enjoyed the ride towards the end after the middle episodes were a slog, but what happened to the skewering of Wild West tropes, what happens to video game allusions and what happened to clever world-building? It got stuck in wheel-spinning Dolores' search for consciousness and unconvincingly portraying William's change into the Man in Black. And after an interesting introduction to his character, what the hell happened with Felix? Why on earth would he agree to go through with any of what he went through, resulting in scores of deaths and the park's partial destruction. He's the most unbelievable plot device I've ever seen.
Not to mention the utter ineptitude of the security in this place, it's a huge suspension of belief to presume they could have missed all of Maeve's behind the scenes meddling. 'Ford covered it up' is such a lame defence for a ton of messy plot. And I'm not usually too bothered by plot holes.
Yet that final sequence was still astonishing. And hey, if the prologue is out of the way maybe the resulting chaos could create some really interesting state-of-nature stuff. But damn does my head hurt if I try to analyse things too much. Hopefully they've played all their trick cards and we can have some more streamlined storytelling whenever season 2 comes around.
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Post by konradsmith on Dec 7, 2016 13:28:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 13:40:52 GMT -5
I just watched the finale and I am not really sure if I like all the mysteries being revealed in the first season.
William=MiB was something I came up with on my own after seeing Episode 2, but dismissed shortly after reading bits of discussion in Reddit, but then it ended up being true. So I was right all along (kind of).
What happened to Logan?
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lordcarson
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Merry Christmas.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 7, 2016 14:35:11 GMT -5
I just watched the finale and I am not really sure if I like all the mysteries being revealed in the first season. William=MiB was something I came up with on my own after seeing Episode 2, but dismissed shortly after reading bits of discussion in Reddit, but then it ended up being true. So I was right all along (kind of). What happened to Logan? These are obviously not all the mysteries (especially considering you end this post asking what happened to Logan). Where is Elsie? Where is STUBBS? Was that really Ford that died? What is Maeve going to do now? What will happen to Hector and Armistice now? Is Sylvester still standing where he was told to? Does Teddy really have any understanding of what goes on or is he always just there? Is Theresa really just gone? There are so many more questions for them to uncover and Evan Rachel Wood straight up said this is only the backstory for the true story to start in season two.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Dec 7, 2016 19:19:52 GMT -5
I just watched the finale and I am not really sure if I like all the mysteries being revealed in the first season. William=MiB was something I came up with on my own after seeing Episode 2, but dismissed shortly after reading bits of discussion in Reddit, but then it ended up being true. So I was right all along (kind of). What happened to Logan? These are obviously not all the mysteries (especially considering you end this post asking what happened to Logan). Where is Elsie? Where is STUBBS? Was that really Ford that died? What is Maeve going to do now? What will happen to Hector and Armistice now? Is Sylvester still standing where he was told to? Does Teddy really have any understanding of what goes on or is he always just there? Is Theresa really just gone? There are so many more questions for them to uncover and Evan Rachel Wood straight up said this is only the backstory for the true story to start in season two. Yep - they left everything so open ended. I too wonder what happened to Logan, Elsie and Stubbs. Hell, wtf happened to Abernathy and all that data they uploaded into his brain? He was in the cold storage with all the others who were pulled out for the Ghost Nation army so that seems like a big danger having a host with that much vital (dangerous) info stored!
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Post by moiaf on Dec 7, 2016 19:28:13 GMT -5
I just tried it on my phone. It's awesome.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Dec 7, 2016 20:02:22 GMT -5
Reddit sleuths are out in full force for the Westworld theory-train which is even more convoluted than Game of Thrones by far. Here's a really cool one: www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/the-maze-isnt-meant-for-you?utm_term=.yf4Ajb2jR#.udeY8wd8MThey are theorizing that the Getty Stock Image used for the "Juliet" photo Logan gives to William (who becomes his wife) was actually completely set up by the show writers and the photographer credited (Erik Von Weber) has many other photos out there that are obviously Westworld related ... like this one:
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Post by katjushka on Dec 7, 2016 22:42:15 GMT -5
A friend of mine asked me if I thought that the whole thing with Maeve's child was really her memories or if it was just her cornestone like Bernard had with the loss of his child and I was like Really the thought hadn't even accured to me but if everything about her actions was scripted then maybe this was too.
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