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Post by Envie on Nov 16, 2016 0:38:41 GMT -5
Season 4 Episode 2 - The Lion and The Rose
Re-Watch Date: Saturday, November 12th, 2016. Restarted: January 11th, 2017!HBO Viewer's Guide Page: viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-4/episode-2Runtime: 54 minutes Release date: April 13th, 2014 Tyrion lends Jaime a hand. Joffrey and Margaery host a breakfast. At Dragonstone, Stannis loses patience with Davos. Ramsay finds a purpose for his pet. North of the Wall, Bran sees where they must go.
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Post by Envie on Nov 17, 2016 22:23:49 GMT -5
Well I guess no one wants to wallow in the gaudy glory of the Purple Wedding! I'll do an image recap of the episode then. We learn one of Ramsay's favorite sports. Jaime and Bronn make friends. Ramsay gets a shave. We found out that the pen is in fact NOT mightier than the sword. (And Joffrey is a colossal asshole) Tyrion breaks up with the GF. Melisandre hosts a Florent Family Barbecue. Mel describes where we all are in this world waiting for Season 7: Bran Trips out. Cersei is such a sweet Mother of the Groom burrito. (Greeting Brienne with her usual charm) Joffrey is even more charming at his wedding. The wedding entertainment was pretty terrible too. But the pie was good ... And the wine ... even better ... That ending though ... And that ... was the end ... of that.
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dje
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Post by dje on Nov 18, 2016 9:26:07 GMT -5
This is a moment that I longed to see be brought to fruition on screen. Joffery has had t coming for so long, the scene didn't disappoint. I also really liked the meeting of Jaime and Bronn, Brans first weir tree download, and Theon shaving Ramsey, when he first finds out about Robb. Great episode!
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Nov 27, 2016 4:16:55 GMT -5
Poor Tansy. But the scene's easier to watch now that we know those dogs ended up eating Rams. Good ole karma.
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Post by konradsmith on Nov 27, 2016 4:23:24 GMT -5
Ah. This episode brings me back to that glorious time when the name Roose meant GrrM's greatest villain instead of a Finnish zygote.
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Post by konradsmith on Nov 27, 2016 6:05:13 GMT -5
ENTER MACE THE ACE. DRINK DEEP AND LIVE LONG INDEED!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 20:03:47 GMT -5
Ah. This episode brings me back to that glorious time when the name Roose meant GrrM's greatest villain instead of a Finnish zygote.
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Post by konradsmith on Nov 28, 2016 20:05:00 GMT -5
Which reminds me I never rated the ep.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jan 11, 2017 20:02:06 GMT -5
We're back on the re-watch project band-wagon. I sort of skimmed through this one again scene by scene since I already re-watched it back in November before we went on holiday break. I still think the best part of the purple wedding was that insanely awkward tension between Joffrey and Tyrion just before the pie is served and Joffrey goes down. This would be one moment I'd be ever so grateful to have been placed at the shittiest table way at the back far away from the royal tables! Didn't care for the Melisandre BBQ scene and it was really easily forgettable as I hadn't even remembered the Florents until I re-watched it. This is a good reminder though that Selyse had not a speck of feeling for her own family and not until it's her own daughter later does it even occur to her how horrible this religious nuttiness is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 2:55:54 GMT -5
I guess I'm a bad person because I can't help but laugh at Joff's dwarf reenactment of TWot5K. Like every time I've seen it. Overall a pretty solid episode, but maybe slightly underwhelming for such a big event if I'm being perfectly honest.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Jan 13, 2017 1:00:12 GMT -5
I guess I'm a bad person because I can't help but laugh at Joff's dwarf reenactment of TWot5K. Like every time I've seen it. Overall a pretty solid episode, but maybe slightly underwhelming for such a big event if I'm being perfectly honest. The fact that the Dwarf playing Renly is riding a Loras doll gets me every time. There was just something wrong with that kid. This episode always brings one thing to mind George Carlin, it's when Mel who just burnt 3 people comes to talk to Shireen about the Lord of light and how he is about love and rainbows, and all I can think of is this.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 10:11:08 GMT -5
This episode was my first minor(!) disappointment during S4. Don't get me wrong, it is still really good, but the PW is one of my favourite events in the books and I felt like the show didn't do justice to it as much as I wanted it to. But first things first: I never had a big issue with the Ramsay torture scenes.... BUT: the show has way too many of them. What exactly was accomplished by starting the episode with that super violent chase scene? Ramsay is a sadist. We knew that. I feel like it would have been much more elegant to show his sadism in a way that also progresses the plot. I don't think this progressed the plot. The second scene with Roose, however, was a perfect example of how it should be done. We see that Ramsay is a sadist (the way he treats Theon) and at the same time there is character development, exposition and plot progression. They could have left out the first scene and nobody would have noticed. That's never a good sign. I have no major issues with the Bran and Dragonstone scenes. I liked them for what they were, especially Bran's vision. King's Landing was of course the main storyline of the episode. Seeing so many cast members in one place was really cool. Those scenes are full to the brim with subtle interactions, (shared) looks, reaction shots, rising tension, dark humour, characters throwing shade and much more. You can watch these scenes and notice new details every time. That is the part of the episode I liked the most. The actors did an extraordinary job, all of them. However, KL was not perfect for two reasons: 1. Alex Graves' direction is pretty shitty throughout the entire season IMO. He did a great job in S3, so I'm not sure what happened here. There is one directing choice that he did over and over again in all of his S4 episodes. Every time he had an intimate dialogue scene between two characters in a room (e.g. Shae's and Tyrion's breakup scene), he used an EXTREMELY shaky handcamera plus really distracting close-ups of the actors' faces. He probably wanted to give those scenes a sense of urgency, but that totally backfired IMHO. These scenes look like they were filmed by an amateur. He also has a lot of weird camera angles, e.g. high angle shots during the Dragonstone dinner scene. This is not too bad in this episode (there are worse scenes, the worst examples being in 4x08 and 4x10), but I noticed it when I first watched it and it diminished my enjoyment of the episode. 2. The second reason why KL was not perfect was the final scene. This is probably the ONLY time that I was not a 100% satisfied with Lena's acting choices. I don't think it's her fault, though. She was probably told to act that way. So what bothered me about it? Well, I thought her reaction was waaaay too tame. I was expecting her to completely lose her shit, but she was like "ohhh my son died, how sad." and then she went straight to blaming Tyrion. I wanted to see her holding on to Joffrey's body as tight as possible, screaming. Or being hold back by Jaime while she is trying to attack Tyrion. Something more passionate (the show did it right with Catelyn in 3x09). All in all, this episode is still pretty strong despite being a bit underwhelming. For the sheer entertainment factor and witty dialogue, this episode gets a 9/10 (closer to 8.5). But I really wanted the Purple Wedding to be a 10.
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Post by sercreighton on Jan 13, 2017 12:59:21 GMT -5
This episode was my first minor(!) disappointment during S4. Don't get me wrong, it is still really good, but the PW is one of my favourite events in the books and I felt like the show didn't do justice to it as much as I wanted it to. But first things first: I never had a big issue with the Ramsay torture scenes.... BUT: the show has way too many of them. What exactly was accomplished by starting the episode with that super violent chase scene? Ramsay is a sadist. We knew that. I feel like it would have been much more elegant to show his sadism in a way that also progresses the plot. I don't think this progressed the plot. The second scene with Roose, however, was a perfect example of how it should be done. We see that Ramsay is a sadist (the way he treats Theon) and at the same time there is character development, exposition and plot progression. They could have left out the first scene and nobody would have noticed. That's never a good sign. I have no major issues with the Bran and Dragonstone scenes. I liked them for what they were, especially Bran's vision. King's Landing was of course the main storyline of the episode. Seeing so many cast members in one place was really cool. Those scenes are full too the brim with subtle interactions, (shared) looks, reaction shots, rising tension, dark humour, characters throwing shade and much more. You can watch these scenes and notice new details every time. That is the part of the episode I liked the most. The actors did an extraordinary job, all of them. However, KL was not perfect for two reasons: 1. Alex Graves direction is pretty shitty throughout the entire season IMO. He did a great job in S3, so I'm not sure what happened here. There is one directing choice that he did over and over again in all of his S4 episodes. Every time he had an intimate dialogue scene between two characters in a room (e.g. Shae's and Tyrion's breakup scene), he used an EXTREMELY shaky handcamera plus really distracting close-ups of the actors' faces. He probably wanted to give those scenes a sense of urgency, but that totally backfired IMHO. These scenes look like they were filmed by an amateur. He also has a lot of weird camera angles, e.g. high angle shots during the Dragonstone dinner scene. This is not too bad in this episode (the worst example being 4x08), but I noticed it when I first watched it and it diminished my enjoyment of the episode. 2. The second reason why KL was not perfect was the final scene. This is probably the ONLY time that I was not a 100% satisfied with Lena's acting choices. I don't think it's her fault, though. She was probably told to act that way. So what bothered me about it? Well, I thought her reaction was waaaay too tame. I was expecting her to completely lose her shit, but she was like "ohhh my son died, how sad." and then she went straight to blaming Tyrion. I wanted to see her holding on to Joffrey's body as tight as possible, screaming. Or being hold back by Jaime while she is trying to attack Tyrion. Something more passionate (the show did it right with Catelyn in 3x09). All in all, this episode is still pretty strong despite being a bit underwhelming. For the sheer entertainment factor and witty dialogue, this episode gets a 9/10 (closer to 8.5). But I really wanted the Purple Wedding to be a 10. I think the chase scene should have been different if you are going to have it all. I think Ramsey simply saying he is going on a hunt and then having Tansy in a cage begging and then released for the hunt would of worked just as well. Don't really need to see it, you can imply what happened when he returns. Martin actually wrote the scene, it was suppose to be Myranda and Violet, which goes back to the Bear and the Maiden Fair. It would have worked better with Violet as it would be less random, but the actress was pregnant. Showing Ramsey turning on anyone even his bed warmers who helped him torture Theon. Later he shows some indifference to the death of Myranda when he has her fed to his dogs. The whole Myranda, Violet/Tansy thing is just weird, how did he even find two sadistic nuts like himself to play his fucked up games, and why? After awhile Ramsey's sadistic nature became less imposing and a lot more annoying, only a little depth being added and mostly an escalation of his deviant behavior. I was glad when he died mostly because I found him annoying. And he got to Annoying real quick. Especially in contrast to Jack/Joff... Hmmm Jackoff. Did you think it was odd, that D&D wanted that final scene to be sympathetic for the fans? Or at least that is what they were going for. I think that is why they went less for anger and more for distress. Jack nailed it, at least I think he did and until then Lena was the bell of the ball. The subtle looks from Oberyn a bit of a poison expert and Tywin was well done. Was not really a fan of the set, parts of it looked okay and other parts looked like a Midieval Times festival and I was expecting to see Sheldon, Leonard, Raj and Howard.
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Post by breakfest on Jan 13, 2017 13:21:16 GMT -5
From what I've noticed, Season 4 seems to go down far better if you hadn't read aSoS. This episode is the first thing that highlights that to me, where expectations start to have a larger impact on responses to how they handled the many climactic moments of the book. I hadn't read it yet, and whilst watching I felt like they nailed all of them, especially this one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 23:19:22 GMT -5
This episode was my first minor(!) disappointment during S4. Don't get me wrong, it is still really good, but the PW is one of my favourite events in the books and I felt like the show didn't do justice to it as much as I wanted it to. But first things first: I never had a big issue with the Ramsay torture scenes.... BUT: the show has way too many of them. What exactly was accomplished by starting the episode with that super violent chase scene? Ramsay is a sadist. We knew that. I feel like it would have been much more elegant to show his sadism in a way that also progresses the plot. I don't think this progressed the plot. The second scene with Roose, however, was a perfect example of how it should be done. We see that Ramsay is a sadist (the way he treats Theon) and at the same time there is character development, exposition and plot progression. They could have left out the first scene and nobody would have noticed. That's never a good sign. I have no major issues with the Bran and Dragonstone scenes. I liked them for what they were, especially Bran's vision. King's Landing was of course the main storyline of the episode. Seeing so many cast members in one place was really cool. Those scenes are full too the brim with subtle interactions, (shared) looks, reaction shots, rising tension, dark humour, characters throwing shade and much more. You can watch these scenes and notice new details every time. That is the part of the episode I liked the most. The actors did an extraordinary job, all of them. However, KL was not perfect for two reasons: 1. Alex Graves direction is pretty shitty throughout the entire season IMO. He did a great job in S3, so I'm not sure what happened here. There is one directing choice that he did over and over again in all of his S4 episodes. Every time he had an intimate dialogue scene between two characters in a room (e.g. Shae's and Tyrion's breakup scene), he used an EXTREMELY shaky handcamera plus really distracting close-ups of the actors' faces. He probably wanted to give those scenes a sense of urgency, but that totally backfired IMHO. These scenes look like they were filmed by an amateur. He also has a lot of weird camera angles, e.g. high angle shots during the Dragonstone dinner scene. This is not too bad in this episode (the worst example being 4x08), but I noticed it when I first watched it and it diminished my enjoyment of the episode. 2. The second reason why KL was not perfect was the final scene. This is probably the ONLY time that I was not a 100% satisfied with Lena's acting choices. I don't think it's her fault, though. She was probably told to act that way. So what bothered me about it? Well, I thought her reaction was waaaay too tame. I was expecting her to completely lose her shit, but she was like "ohhh my son died, how sad." and then she went straight to blaming Tyrion. I wanted to see her holding on to Joffrey's body as tight as possible, screaming. Or being hold back by Jaime while she is trying to attack Tyrion. Something more passionate (the show did it right with Catelyn in 3x09). All in all, this episode is still pretty strong despite being a bit underwhelming. For the sheer entertainment factor and witty dialogue, this episode gets a 9/10 (closer to 8.5). But I really wanted the Purple Wedding to be a 10. I think the chase scene should have been different if you are going to have it all. I think Ramsey simply saying he is going on a hunt and then having Tansy in a cage begging and then released for the hunt would of worked just as well. Don't really need to see it, you can imply what happened when he returns. Martin actually wrote the scene, it was suppose to be Myranda and Violet, which goes back to the Bear and the Maiden Fair. It would have worked better with Violet as it would be less random, but the actress was pregnant. Showing Ramsey turning on anyone even his bed warmers who helped him torture Theon. Later he shows some indifference to the death of Myranda when he has her fed to his dogs. The whole Myranda, Violet/Tansy thing is just weird, how did he even find two sadistic nuts like himself to play his fucked up games, and why? After awhile Ramsey's sadistic nature became less imposing and a lot more annoying, only a little depth being added and mostly an escalation of his deviant behavior. I was glad when he died mostly because I found him annoying. And he got to Annoying real quick. Especially in contrast to Jack/Joff... Hmmm Jackoff. Did you think it was odd, that D&D wanted that final scene to be sympathetic for the fans? Or at least that is what they were going for. I think that is why they went less for anger and more for distress. Jack nailed it, at least I think he did and until then Lena was the bell of the ball. The subtle looks from Oberyn a bit of a poison expert and Tywin was well done. Was not really a fan of the set, parts of it looked okay and other parts looked like a Midieval Times festival and I was expecting to see Sheldon, Leonard, Raj and Howard. The lion head was awful. Probably the worst set piece the show has ever had.
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