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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 23:22:36 GMT -5
From what I've noticed, Season 4 seems to go down far better if you hadn't read aSoS. This episode is the first thing that highlights that to me, where expectations start to have a larger impact on responses to how they handled the many climactic moments of the book. I hadn't read it yet, and whilst watching I felt like they nailed all of them, especially this one. I think there's a lot of truth to this in general. As it stands now my two favorite seasons (1 & 6) are the only one's I've been unspoiled going in. S1 because I hadn't read the books yet, and S6 obviously is past the source material.
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Post by Envie on Jan 14, 2017 8:56:37 GMT -5
The lion head was awful. Probably the worst set piece the show has ever had. I dunno, I kind of thought that was the whole point of the Purple Wedding set: Gaudy and overdone to display just how out of touch with reality Joffrey is and his ugly arrogance. Tywin and Olenna have a stroll through the gardens and even emphasize the cost of the wedding. Tywin of course being practical and critical of it all while Olenna is encouraging it to wallow in the decadence and probably to set the stage for her ulterior motive in killing Joffrey of course. We watched Joffrey trying on fancy brocade outfits but not wanting flowers on it (yet it's still somehow feminine and pompous looking when he does choose it). We saw his ugly self-tribute statue. Joffrey's wedding decor needed to be awful and I felt like the set designers were going for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 8:59:37 GMT -5
The lion head was awful. Probably the worst set piece the show has ever had. I dunno, I kind of thought that was the whole point of the Purple Wedding set: Gaudy and overdone to display just how out of touch with reality Joffrey is and his ugly arrogance. Tywin and Olenna have a stroll through the gardens and even emphasize the cost of the wedding. Tywin of course being practical and critical of it all while Olenna is encouraging it to wallow in the decadence and probably to set the stage for her ulterior motive in killing Joffrey of course. We watched Joffrey trying on fancy brocade outfits but not wanting flowers on it (yet it's still somehow feminine and pompous looking when he does choose it). We saw his ugly self-tribute statue. Joffrey's wedding decor needed to be awful and I felt like the set designers were going for that. Possibly. It took me out of the episode a bit though. Nothing else in 6 seasons ever stood out as much as far as not looking organic to that world.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2017 15:59:29 GMT -5
This episode was my first minor(!) disappointment during S4. Don't get me wrong, it is still really good, but the PW is one of my favourite events in the books and I felt like the show didn't do justice to it as much as I wanted it to. But first things first: I never had a big issue with the Ramsay torture scenes.... BUT: the show has way too many of them. What exactly was accomplished by starting the episode with that super violent chase scene? Ramsay is a sadist. We knew that. I feel like it would have been much more elegant to show his sadism in a way that also progresses the plot. I don't think this progressed the plot. The second scene with Roose, however, was a perfect example of how it should be done. We see that Ramsay is a sadist (the way he treats Theon) and at the same time there is character development, exposition and plot progression. They could have left out the first scene and nobody would have noticed. That's never a good sign. I have no major issues with the Bran and Dragonstone scenes. I liked them for what they were, especially Bran's vision. King's Landing was of course the main storyline of the episode. Seeing so many cast members in one place was really cool. Those scenes are full too the brim with subtle interactions, (shared) looks, reaction shots, rising tension, dark humour, characters throwing shade and much more. You can watch these scenes and notice new details every time. That is the part of the episode I liked the most. The actors did an extraordinary job, all of them. However, KL was not perfect for two reasons: 1. Alex Graves direction is pretty shitty throughout the entire season IMO. He did a great job in S3, so I'm not sure what happened here. There is one directing choice that he did over and over again in all of his S4 episodes. Every time he had an intimate dialogue scene between two characters in a room (e.g. Shae's and Tyrion's breakup scene), he used an EXTREMELY shaky handcamera plus really distracting close-ups of the actors' faces. He probably wanted to give those scenes a sense of urgency, but that totally backfired IMHO. These scenes look like they were filmed by an amateur. He also has a lot of weird camera angles, e.g. high angle shots during the Dragonstone dinner scene. This is not too bad in this episode (the worst example being 4x08), but I noticed it when I first watched it and it diminished my enjoyment of the episode. 2. The second reason why KL was not perfect was the final scene. This is probably the ONLY time that I was not a 100% satisfied with Lena's acting choices. I don't think it's her fault, though. She was probably told to act that way. So what bothered me about it? Well, I thought her reaction was waaaay too tame. I was expecting her to completely lose her shit, but she was like "ohhh my son died, how sad." and then she went straight to blaming Tyrion. I wanted to see her holding on to Joffrey's body as tight as possible, screaming. Or being hold back by Jaime while she is trying to attack Tyrion. Something more passionate (the show did it right with Catelyn in 3x09). All in all, this episode is still pretty strong despite being a bit underwhelming. For the sheer entertainment factor and witty dialogue, this episode gets a 9/10 (closer to 8.5). But I really wanted the Purple Wedding to be a 10. I think the chase scene should have been different if you are going to have it all. I think Ramsey simply saying he is going on a hunt and then having Tansy in a cage begging and then released for the hunt would of worked just as well. Don't really need to see it, you can imply what happened when he returns. Martin actually wrote the scene, it was suppose to be Myranda and Violet, which goes back to the Bear and the Maiden Fair. It would have worked better with Violet as it would be less random, but the actress was pregnant. Showing Ramsey turning on anyone even his bed warmers who helped him torture Theon. Later he shows some indifference to the death of Myranda when he has her fed to his dogs. The whole Myranda, Violet/Tansy thing is just weird, how did he even find two sadistic nuts like himself to play his fucked up games, and why? After awhile Ramsey's sadistic nature became less imposing and a lot more annoying, only a little depth being added and mostly an escalation of his deviant behavior. I was glad when he died mostly because I found him annoying. And he got to Annoying real quick. Especially in contrast to Jack/Joff... Hmmm Jackoff. Did you think it was odd, that D&D wanted that final scene to be sympathetic for the fans? Or at least that is what they were going for. I think that is why they went less for anger and more for distress. Jack nailed it, at least I think he did and until then Lena was the bell of the ball. The subtle looks from Oberyn a bit of a poison expert and Tywin was well done.Was not really a fan of the set, parts of it looked okay and other parts looked like a Midieval Times festival and I was expecting to see Sheldon, Leonard, Raj and Howard. I didn't mind that they went more for distress in regards to Lena/Cersei. In fact, my criticism is that they didn't go for it as much as I wanted them to. I just wanted Cersei to have the strongest possible reaction to Joff's death. There should have been extreme agony OR complete rage. Either would have been fine. But instead we got only a few tears and then she blamed Tyrion.
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Post by sercreighton on Jan 15, 2017 12:14:35 GMT -5
I think the chase scene should have been different if you are going to have it all. I think Ramsey simply saying he is going on a hunt and then having Tansy in a cage begging and then released for the hunt would of worked just as well. Don't really need to see it, you can imply what happened when he returns. Martin actually wrote the scene, it was suppose to be Myranda and Violet, which goes back to the Bear and the Maiden Fair. It would have worked better with Violet as it would be less random, but the actress was pregnant. Showing Ramsey turning on anyone even his bed warmers who helped him torture Theon. Later he shows some indifference to the death of Myranda when he has her fed to his dogs. The whole Myranda, Violet/Tansy thing is just weird, how did he even find two sadistic nuts like himself to play his fucked up games, and why? After awhile Ramsey's sadistic nature became less imposing and a lot more annoying, only a little depth being added and mostly an escalation of his deviant behavior. I was glad when he died mostly because I found him annoying. And he got to Annoying real quick. Especially in contrast to Jack/Joff... Hmmm Jackoff. Did you think it was odd, that D&D wanted that final scene to be sympathetic for the fans? Or at least that is what they were going for. I think that is why they went less for anger and more for distress. Jack nailed it, at least I think he did and until then Lena was the bell of the ball. The subtle looks from Oberyn a bit of a poison expert and Tywin was well done.Was not really a fan of the set, parts of it looked okay and other parts looked like a Midieval Times festival and I was expecting to see Sheldon, Leonard, Raj and Howard. I didn't mind that they went more for distress in regards to Lena/Cersei. In fact, my criticism is that they didn't go for it as much as I wanted them to. I just wanted Cersei to have the strongest possible reaction to Joff's death. There should have been extreme agony OR complete rage. Either would have been fine. But instead we got only a few tears and then she blamed Tyrion. See I don't know how she should react, she is not an easy read. I always felt Cersei's love for her children was more along the lines of her own selfishness. Losing Joff was like someone taking away one of her things so she lashes out. I mean she dumped a kid down a well once because the girl liked Jamie. She had children butchered who were no threat to her. I feel she mostly cares about herself, so how should she express her loss? Not really sure there. Even with Joff she was always manipulating to get what she wants. And funny enough crazy brutal Joff was her favorite. Remember what she wanted to do to Tommen?
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Post by Envie on Jan 15, 2017 17:50:59 GMT -5
I didn't mind that they went more for distress in regards to Lena/Cersei. In fact, my criticism is that they didn't go for it as much as I wanted them to. I just wanted Cersei to have the strongest possible reaction to Joff's death. There should have been extreme agony OR complete rage. Either would have been fine. But instead we got only a few tears and then she blamed Tyrion. See I don't know how she should react, she is not an easy read. I always felt Cersei's love for her children was more along the lines of her own selfishness. Losing Joff was like someone taking away one of her things so she lashes out. I mean she dumped a kid down a well once because the girl liked Jamie. She had children butchered who were no threat to her. I feel she mostly cares about herself, so how should she express her loss? Not really sure there. Even with Joff she was always manipulating to get what she wants. And funny enough crazy brutal Joff was her favorite. Remember what she wanted to do to Tommen? You can add aborting any pregnancies by Robert to that list of great Mom award points. She only wanted children with Jaime and even those three were more like possessions to her than people. Joffrey was the only one she couldn't control at the end and once off the hook he was a monster. I enjoyed the more human / loving Mother side they gave to Cersei on the show and it definitely made her much more likable even as a villain. She genuinely knew Myrcella and Tommen were "good" and not like herself or Joffrey and she loved them even if she didn't value them as potential rulers.
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Post by moiaf on Jan 18, 2017 12:57:13 GMT -5
Okay, I’m catching up. I watched the episode yesterday and jotted down a few notes.
Gods Joffrey is a hateful little shit, but that was a very bad death and in the books he’s still a child and really should not have died that way. It was torturous. But let’s start from the beginning. I hated the Ramsay torture porn, I hated when it first appeared and I hate it now. I know it’s part of the books but visually it’s worse. So I skip over most of it because I really don’t want to see it again.
While Varys is talking to Tyrion he says something interesting. He’s not invited to a certain event and he says it’s because of the general dislike of foreigners and I think we’ll see this at a bigger scale come next season.
I made a not of the book Tyrion gives to Joffrey for his weeding. The Book of Kings, which include: Daeron the Young Dragon, Baelor the Blessed, Aegon the Unworthy, and Daeron the Good. I wonder if there was any significance to these particular kings, for the watchers I mean. I had forgotten how cruel Tyrion is to Shae and I sort of understand how she ended up with Tywin. And her testimony at Tyrion’s trial.
It’s always interesting to re-view the visions Bran receives when he touches the tree. Again we see the sun rising on the west and setting in the east. And it happens as the vision come to him. For sure the throne room will be destroyed, we are show this in three different occasions.
Oleanna saying the killing a man at his wedding can only be done by a monster, I suppose she would know.
And finally, love that Tyrion would not kneel to Joffrey.
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