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Post by izzue on Mar 10, 2017 22:47:36 GMT -5
My biggest takeaway from this symbolic artwork: Dany speaks of the political war just before Jon speaks of the "great war" that's the only real war that matters. This concisely brings together the clue that together (the two heads of the dragon remaining at the end) they will unite the rest of the Houses that have experienced crushing defeat into one great army against the Night King and survive the Long Night united.
I had wondered about the two heads of the dragons remaining at the end, couldn't figure out what that meant, but there it is! Also, the sentence you bolded makes me think that the "breaking of the wheel" is not to conquer all of the houses, as I've always thought Dany meant by that, but to break all of the petty struggle for power that the bulk of the teaser shows. [Or, perhaps conquering was what she meant initially, but what she will realize in the coming season is the larger picture.] After that, then, the switch to the WW imagery fits perfectly. What's interesting to me is that the sigils crumble when it starts to snow. Obviously that represents all the internal political struggles being ultimately irrelevant in comparison to the White Walkers, but I wonder if the juxtaposition of Dany talking about breaking the wheel and the cold actually breaking the sigils implies that, although Dany may believe she's the one who'll end the petty little conflicts, it'll actually be the White Walkers. (Not exactly a new idea.) Or maybe she'll arrive in the South at the same time the White Walkers appear in the North? There's a good Ice and Fire moment. I like this interpretation! The fact that the crumbling takes place when it starts to snow could also underline the fact that "Winter is Here", as we saw near the end of S6, and now we're going to find out what Winter really means, which brings Old Nan to my mind. I still wonder what happened to her, though I guess she died when Winterfell was captured. Early on we saw Bran as the one who really loved Old Nan's stories, especially the "really scary" ones. That will help Bran see things more clearly in the coming events, past the WW themselves that we've seen thus far to what another Long Night would really be like.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 4:28:22 GMT -5
I swear there's a bear in there when Catelyn screams - what is that supposed to be? I thought it was a bear too at first, but upon careful re-watch, I think it's a large male lion (odd angle makes it seem bear-like) looming for attack over the wolf below it ... ***Edited / Update: Well hrmm... ALT-Shift-X thinks it's a bear too in his analysis, but it's oddly out of place for the Mormont bear to be there where Catelyn's screaming and the Lannisters have orchestrated the Red-Wedding at that point in the teaser timeline. I dunno, what do you guys think? I just can't see a mane so that's why I assumed it was a bear, but it makes much more sense for it to be a lion in the context of Catelyn's scream (representing Tywin obviously)
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Post by Lils on Mar 11, 2017 7:27:14 GMT -5
I thought it was a bear too at first, but upon careful re-watch, I think it's a large male lion (odd angle makes it seem bear-like) looming for attack over the wolf below it ... ***Edited / Update: Well hrmm... ALT-Shift-X thinks it's a bear too in his analysis, but it's oddly out of place for the Mormont bear to be there where Catelyn's screaming and the Lannisters have orchestrated the Red-Wedding at that point in the teaser timeline. I dunno, what do you guys think? I just can't see a mane so that's why I assumed it was a bear, but it makes much more sense for it to be a lion in the context of Catelyn's scream (representing Tywin obviously) When I saw it, my first thought was bear as well.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 11, 2017 9:36:34 GMT -5
Envie , @fatherofdragons , izzue I saw this on Reddit and I thought it was a very nice breakdown of the teaser: https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/5yin5f/analysing_the_teaser/der2awb/ That is a good breakdown of the trailer. I didn't notice it in my hype, but it does go through the basic rundown of what happened during the last few seasons. We've been told repeatedly that the Game of Thrones is a small war in comparison to the bigger war. I'm glad they are showing us that in such a way. I can remember being upset, thinking that the fight for the throne would be set aside. But this makes sense and they really are emphasizing it. Here's my own analysis and symbolism thoughts:
The sigils are all slowly circling one another in a never-ending spiral upward. Each animal attacking the next ...
- 3 Headed Dragon - House Targaryen's original rulership - Mad King's self-destruction at the throne - "Burn them all!"
- Stag killing Dragon - Baratheon takeover of Targaryen - Robert killing Rhaegar. "I'll kill every Targaryen I get my hands on!"
- Lion Killing Stag - Lannister takedown over Baratheon - Cersei having Robert Killed. "Everyone who isn't us is an enemy!"
- Lion Killing Wolf - Lannisters take out Stark - Joffrey ordering Ned to be executed. "Ser Illyn, bring me his head!"
- Kraken Killing Wolf - Greyjoys attack Stark - Balon/Theon capture Winterfell. "We are Ironborn, we take what is ours."
- Lion Killing Wolf - Lannisters destroy last of Starks - Red Wedding. Catelyn's anguished cry when Robb was killed
- Thorned Rose Vine entangling Lion's Paw - Tyrells destroy Lannister - Lady Olenna's murder of Joffrey "You don't think I'd let you marry that beast do you?"
- Wildfire Lighting up Rose Sigil - Lannister destroys Tyrell - "I now proclaim Cersei of the House Lannister, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms."
- Faster Spiral of all the animals going upward - The GoT "Wheel of Power" - Daenerys arriving on the scene as the destruction has peaked - "This one's on top, then that one's on top, on and on it spins, crushing those on the ground..." ***Interesting to note at this point when it reaches the top, it's TWO Dragons remaining where at the start it was THREE! Targaryen House Reborn!
- Now All of the Animals, starting with the two dragons on top, begin to crumble apart as if shattering ... frozen or burnt?
- Just as the last pieces fall ... Jon Snow's voice begins "The same thing's coming for all of us ..."
- Image cuts away to the broken pieces in the snow, arranged in the same familiar spiral pattern as the corpse-art we've seen before from the White Walkers.
- Jon Snow's voice continues: "There's only one war that matters. The Great War. And it is here." ... the spiral closes down to the black pupil in the center of the blue eye of the Night King.
My biggest takeaway from this symbolic artwork: Dany speaks of the political war just before Jon speaks of the "great war" that's the only real war that matters. This concisely brings together the clue that together (the two heads of the dragon remaining at the end) they will unite the rest of the Houses that have experienced crushing defeat into one great army against the Night King and survive the Long Night united.
The spiral, as explained in that great video moiaf linked, represents the perfect ratio, the balance between good and evil, light and dark, fire and ice!
Since both the dragons at the end also crumble the same as the rest of the animals, this could (in some opinions) mean Dany and Jon are destroyed as well in the end. I tend to think it's the dragons themselves that are literally destroyed in sacrifice the same as we've seen the Dire wolves dying along the way. And that's my analysis of it! We are probably making way more of this than we should, but there is nothing else to discuss so let's continue to dissect and interpret the shit out of the teaser. I was thinking that the two crumbling dragons at the end when Dany finishes her speech can be a representation of Jon and Dany, choosing not to continue their House, perhaps even start a new one or not start/continue one at all. It would be totally bittersweet.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 11, 2017 9:38:33 GMT -5
I swear there's a bear in there when Catelyn screams - what is that supposed to be? I thought it was a bear too at first, but upon careful re-watch, I think it's a large male lion (odd angle makes it seem bear-like) looming for attack over the wolf below it ... ***Edited / Update: Well hrmm... ALT-Shift-X thinks it's a bear too in his analysis, but it's oddly out of place for the Mormont bear to be there where Catelyn's screaming and the Lannisters have orchestrated the Red-Wedding at that point in the teaser timeline. I dunno, what do you guys think? I thought it was a bear too at first, but upon careful re-watch, I think it's a large male lion (odd angle makes it seem bear-like) looming for attack over the wolf below it ... ***Edited / Update: Well hrmm... ALT-Shift-X thinks it's a bear too in his analysis, but it's oddly out of place for the Mormont bear to be there where Catelyn's screaming and the Lannisters have orchestrated the Red-Wedding at that point in the teaser timeline. I dunno, what do you guys think? I just can't see a mane so that's why I assumed it was a bear, but it makes much more sense for it to be a lion in the context of Catelyn's scream (representing Tywin obviously) I just can't see a mane so that's why I assumed it was a bear, but it makes much more sense for it to be a lion in the context of Catelyn's scream (representing Tywin obviously) When I saw it, my first thought was bear as well. I've watched the video (yet agin) and it is hard to tell, but a bear doesn't really make sense. If it's not a bear then it's most likely a lion with it's mane pulled back as it charges towards the wolf.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 11, 2017 9:44:04 GMT -5
I'm also glad they are continuing with the same symbolism. Wel'll probably get some thing from Bran and Sam about it. But I agree with you, we won't know the truth until season 8. For those of you who don't know about the show's use of the Golden Ratio, this video has a nice explanation of it. Quite possibly the best in-depth video on symbolism and how it connects to Jon and Dany in particular but to certain extent others in the whole saga. I've never noticed symbols in Sansa and Arya scenes and for that matter the use of Golden Ratio. Yes, in some scenes but not in others. Especially, what strikes me as an interesting perspective is possible connection to White Walkers. We got Jon, Dany and Night's King from spoilers basically being the big three. Who knows, are they related to Targaryens because people questioned White Walkers armor being similar in design to Targaryens or even Essos. i I love this video so much, I was so happy when I stumbled upon it. I had noticed most of these symbols and discussed them with sercreighton for years but no one really talked about them. It was nice to see them analyzed so concisely and to see the connections that they made. These are the kinds of subtle things that the show does well. I do imagine there is some type of connection between Dany, Jon )both from Stark and Warg side of the family) and the White Walker and we'll probably see more information about this being revealed next season. It might even be the third shocking moment that GRRM told D&D about.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 11:05:33 GMT -5
Quite possibly the best in-depth video on symbolism and how it connects to Jon and Dany in particular but to certain extent others in the whole saga. I've never noticed symbols in Sansa and Arya scenes and for that matter the use of Golden Ratio. Yes, in some scenes but not in others. Especially, what strikes me as an interesting perspective is possible connection to White Walkers. We got Jon, Dany and Night's King from spoilers basically being the big three. Who knows, are they related to Targaryens because people questioned White Walkers armor being similar in design to Targaryens or even Essos. i I love this video so much, I was so happy when I stumbled upon it. I had noticed most of these symbols and discussed them with sercreighton for years but no one really talked about them. It was nice to see them analyzed so concisely and to see the connections that they made. These are the kinds of subtle things that the show does well. I do imagine there is some type of connection between Dany, Jon )both from Stark and Warg side of the family) and the White Walker and we'll probably see more information about this being revealed next season. It might even be the third shocking moment that GRRM told D&D about. No doubt. I know you, sercreighton and other discussing things in detail, essays on Jon, Dany and Bran. Nice work btw. With relations between our main protagonists and White Walkers/The Others remains to be seen. I don't trust Weiss and Benioff on this and going in-depth with this. Which is why my faith lies with George to show us more about The Others. I know show does't have enoughtime to explore this but could in broad strokes but I'd appreciate more details on them. Plenty of theories about Starks possibly connection to White Walkers/The others and Targaryens too. Third reveal might be Viserion but not sure about this. It might just be show only thing but pretty significant.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 11, 2017 11:40:39 GMT -5
i I love this video so much, I was so happy when I stumbled upon it. I had noticed most of these symbols and discussed them with sercreighton for years but no one really talked about them. It was nice to see them analyzed so concisely and to see the connections that they made. These are the kinds of subtle things that the show does well. I do imagine there is some type of connection between Dany, Jon )both from Stark and Warg side of the family) and the White Walker and we'll probably see more information about this being revealed next season. It might even be the third shocking moment that GRRM told D&D about. No doubt. I know you, sercreighton and other discussing things in detail, essays on Jon, Dany and Bran. Nice work btw. With relations between our main protagonists and White Walkers/The Others remains to be seen. I don't trust Weiss and Benioff on this and going in-depth with this. Which is why my faith lies with George to show us more about The Others. I know show does't have enoughtime to explore this but could in broad strokes but I'd appreciate more details on them. Plenty of theories about Starks possibly connection to White Walkers/The others and Targaryens too. Third reveal might be Viserion but not sure about this. It might just be show only thing but pretty significant. It's hard given the format of TV and how large the show is for them to go in depth on any one story. There is so much going on that there just isn't much time. However, most of the storylines are conceding so we should get more time for a little more in depth explanation of what the WW are. However, as you say we'll have to wait for the books to really get at the nitty gritty of their story. I think the third WOW moment is suppose to happen very close to the end. So, it's probably something that is revealed at the end of season 8.
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Post by moiaf on Apr 1, 2017 14:10:05 GMT -5
For those who want to discuss the promo without discussing spoilers:
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Apr 1, 2017 20:39:03 GMT -5
In reference to the bear/lion issue, while a bear doesn't make sense, it doesn't look exactly like a mane-less lion either. Of course Tywin was a rather well-groomed man, so my vote is lion.
When I watched the new teaser above the subtitles were on for the first time of the umpteen times I've watched. I was struck with where the words fell in relation to the main characters. The white breath from Cersei would signal to me that winter is coming down quite far. Old Nan sure knew her stuff. And the darker, somber tone reflects the interviews D&D have given about the darker tone of the new season.
It does appear to me that the eye in the first teaser and the eye in the new one are different in shade and pattern.
All in all, this should hold me for about another month.
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Post by moiaf on Apr 2, 2017 9:19:55 GMT -5
In reference to the bear/lion issue, while a bear doesn't make sense, it doesn't look exactly like a mane-less lion either. Of course Tywin was a rather well-groomed man, so my vote is lion. When I watched the new teaser above the subtitles were on for the first time of the umpteen times I've watched. I was struck with where the words fell in relation to the main characters. The white breath from Cersei would signal to me that winter is coming down quite far. Old Nan sure knew her stuff. And the darker, somber tone reflects the interviews D&D have given about the darker tone of the new season. It does appear to me that the eye in the first teaser and the eye in the new one are different in shade and pattern. All in all, this should hold me for about another month. I think winter is supposed to expand throughout the Planets, the canals in Braavos have frozen over. I wouldn't be surprise if there is some sort of time jump in season 8. With all the information we've receive I just don't think that the Others will be defeated in six months.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 9:42:20 GMT -5
In reference to the bear/lion issue, while a bear doesn't make sense, it doesn't look exactly like a mane-less lion either. Of course Tywin was a rather well-groomed man, so my vote is lion. When I watched the new teaser above the subtitles were on for the first time of the umpteen times I've watched. I was struck with where the words fell in relation to the main characters. The white breath from Cersei would signal to me that winter is coming down quite far. Old Nan sure knew her stuff. And the darker, somber tone reflects the interviews D&D have given about the darker tone of the new season. It does appear to me that the eye in the first teaser and the eye in the new one are different in shade and pattern. All in all, this should hold me for about another month. I think winter is supposed to expand throughout the Planets, the canals in Braavos have frozen over. I wouldn't be surprise if there is some sort of time jump in season 8. With all the information we've receive I just don't think that the Others will be defeated in six months. ยจ That would be tricky. Defeating white walkers in space of six months would be a very hard task, it has been like 8000 years, these creatures deserves time to shine and Long Night to actually last many years. But then if Dany gets pregnant from their sex scene, it could be very tricky for the viewers and plot. No doubt. I know you, sercreighton and other discussing things in detail, essays on Jon, Dany and Bran. Nice work btw. With relations between our main protagonists and White Walkers/The Others remains to be seen. I don't trust Weiss and Benioff on this and going in-depth with this. Which is why my faith lies with George to show us more about The Others. I know show does't have enoughtime to explore this but could in broad strokes but I'd appreciate more details on them. Plenty of theories about Starks possibly connection to White Walkers/The others and Targaryens too. Third reveal might be Viserion but not sure about this. It might just be show only thing but pretty significant. It's hard given the format of TV and how large the show is for them to go in depth on any one story. There is so much going on that there just isn't much time. However, most of the storylines are conceding so we should get more time for a little more in depth explanation of what the WW are. However, as you say we'll have to wait for the books to really get at the nitty gritty of their story. I think the third WOW moment is suppose to happen very close to the end. So, it's probably something that is revealed at the end of season 8. Any guesses what it could be?
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 2, 2017 11:11:29 GMT -5
In reference to the bear/lion issue, while a bear doesn't make sense, it doesn't look exactly like a mane-less lion either. Of course Tywin was a rather well-groomed man, so my vote is lion. When I watched the new teaser above the subtitles were on for the first time of the umpteen times I've watched. I was struck with where the words fell in relation to the main characters. The white breath from Cersei would signal to me that winter is coming down quite far. Old Nan sure knew her stuff. And the darker, somber tone reflects the interviews D&D have given about the darker tone of the new season. It does appear to me that the eye in the first teaser and the eye in the new one are different in shade and pattern. All in all, this should hold me for about another month. I think winter is supposed to expand throughout the Planets, the canals in Braavos have frozen over. I wouldn't be surprise if there is some sort of time jump in season 8. With all the information we've receive I just don't think that the Others will be defeated in six months. Yeah I've been thinking a time jump seems possible. Give time to let everybody actually get where they need to be, give time to let the WWs come into westeros, give time for cersei's hair to grow back lol. I wouldn't be surprised if the first scene of S8 just drops us into the middle of a battle against the WWs.
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Post by izzue on Apr 3, 2017 21:48:01 GMT -5
One last thought, going back to the Teaser, about the bear (to my eyes, it was clearly a bear) -- I'm thinking it signifies a Mormont. Lyanna will surely ride/fight with Jon, but it could also signify Jorah (assuming he finds a cure in Oldtown) being able to join forces with Dany once again. Thus far, I've been thinking about what will happen when Dany and Jon encounter each other, but now I'm wondering about Jorah and Lyanna, too (!) Aren't they cousins? Wonder how each will feel about the "side" his/her cousin is on?
At the end, the candles going out suddenly was reminiscent of Arya extinguishing the flame when she prepared to fight the Waif, sort of 'down to it' now, no more preamble.
I must've watch the Promo a dozen times by now, still need to watch it more. Just, at random:
DANY: It looked like Dany was walking beside rougher walls, slabs of rock (?), and I wondered if she could possibly be walking through the tunnels underneath the Red Keep, where the dragon skulls are kept, where Arya wandered (and where the dragon skulls seemed to have eyes that followed Arya). The lights on the wall looked the same as the ones on the wall where Cersei was walking. OR, she could have been walking inside Dragonstone. All we've really seen of Dragonstone is the main room where Maester Cressen tried to poison Mel, the room with the map table, Shireen's room, and the cells that Gendry and later Davos were in - there must be long, long tunnels all inside it. The throne that Dany sat on had a background with a similar look -it definitely wasn't the IT. When the camera was looking down on her as she walked through a doorway, the floor had hexagonal tiles, different from the others shown. And lastly, when the Promo showed the feet and skirt bottom of a woman walking up steps to a throne, I think that was Dany. Her heels were lower and more stout that the ones we'd just seen the moment before as we watched Cersei, from the side, walk along the KL throne room floor. Also, the skirt was accordion pleated (Dany had an outfit like this shown last season in Meereen), whereas the gown Cersei was wearing was not pleated. Dany had her same look of confidence, knowing whoever she was about to encounter had no idea what they would be dealing with.
JON: It looked like the room he walked into was the main hall of WF, all set with candles, but there was nobody there. And he was dressed as if he were in WF. It also seemed to me that of the three, he looked reluctant, almost tentative - or, maybe just that he was doing what he knew he had to do but didn't relish it at all . It was like a walk of duty, whereas both Dany and Cersei looked ready to 'take it on'.
CERSEI: When we watched her from a sideways view walk across the KL throne room, her heels were higher and thinner than the ones we saw go up stairs (as per Dany thoughts, above). She looked typically insolent and unyielding. Near the end when her breath fogged, she didn't just breathe it out, she blew it out, in a challenging way. That made me wonder if she were a WW at that point, even though her body (and eyes) still looked perfectly alive, perfectly human -- could she have formed some sort of alliance with the WWs?
The large WW eyes at the end . . . I swear, I thought it was going to be Cersei, as per above, but of course when we saw the nose we knew it wasn't. B U T ... the nose reminded me of Wun Wun...surely all of the bodies from the BOTB were burned!?!
I loved that the end sounds were of 'the winds of winter' howling.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Apr 4, 2017 18:15:34 GMT -5
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