noctisky
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Post by noctisky on Mar 29, 2017 2:51:50 GMT -5
The whole premise of the wight hunt makes no sense so there's hardly room for improvement in logistics of the mission for that reason.
Going on a suicide mission for Cersei presents a bunch of problems. 1. They don't need her. Their combined forces far outweigh hers. 2. Everyone knows her rep and Tyrion/Varys know exactly what she is like (yet they still approve of this foolishness?). She cannnot be trusted, she cannot possibly be an ally yet they're willing to risk their lives for this? On the off-chance she lets herself be convinced (a long shot) and is shaken enough to want to help? 3. Jon experienced the massacre at Hardhome. He knows wights don't travel solo (big risk) and nowadays White Walkers are right behind them wherever they go. He sooo should know better. And all he takes with him are a bunch of guys (a few of them strangers to him)? Did he really think it'd go well? Unlike his book version, Jon is now nothing more than an action hero (of the dumb, impulsive kind) on the show. It's all about action and reaction. The whole thing just undermines the characters so badly. 4. Jon's the King now. He's responsible for a whole Kingdom and yet he is still eager to go on a suicide mission himself, instead of setting the Night's Watch and/or Wildlings on it if they need that "proof". "Proof" that book!Jon already has in his grasp by A Dance with Dragons.
Both the premise and the execution sound bad. The plan for the hunt doesn't seem to have much going for it.
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Post by King Tommen on Mar 29, 2017 5:21:51 GMT -5
The whole premise of the wight hunt makes no sense so there's hardly room for improvement in logistics of the mission for that reason. Going on a suicide mission for Cersei presents a bunch of problems. 1. They don't need her. Their combined forces far outweigh hers. 2. Everyone knows her rep and Tyrion/Varys know exactly what she is like (yet they still approve of this foolishness?). She cannnot be trusted, she cannot possibly be an ally yet they're willing to risk their lives for this? On the off-chance she lets herself be convinced (a long shot) and is shaken enough to want to help? 3. Jon experienced the massacre at Hardhome. He knows wights don't travel solo (big risk) and nowadays White Walkers are right behind them wherever they go. He sooo should know better. And all he takes with him are a bunch of guys (a few of them strangers to him)? Did he really think it'd go well? Unlike his book version, Jon is now nothing more than an action hero (of the dumb, impulsive kind) on the show. It's all about action and reaction. The whole thing just undermines the characters so badly. 4. Jon's the King now. He's responsible for a whole Kingdom and yet he is still eager to go on a suicide mission himself, instead of setting the Night's Watch and/or Wildlings on it if they need that "proof". "Proof" that book!Jon already has in his grasp by A Dance with Dragons. Both the premise and the execution sound bad. The plan for the hunt doesn't seem to have much going for it. It's been hard to find a post that gets so many things wrong but here we are. That's just a complete misreading of how this is going to go down and the situation at hand. It's not about getting just Cersei on board, it's about getting WESTEROS (outside of the North) on board and that's through the Crown because Cersei and Jaime can give royal orders that rally other armies, not just their own. And even if Cersei doesn't go along, there may be other Southern forces that can be convinced, given the proof. No one will listen to Jon outside of his ragtag Northern armies which are severely depleted. Of course you need proof to rally any additional forces, look at how the Tarly's reacted to Sam telling them about the WW's. Everyone thinks this is Fantasyland stuff. Stop characterizing it as a "suicide mission" (which is when you think you probably have no chance at coming back alive) because the characters clearly aren't approaching it that way. They think they can succeed and that's the reason they're going in such a small group. To infiltrate and get what they need quickly and cleanly. I think it's also clear that since they're leaving from Eastwatch which Tormund has been manning, they'll probably be provided with some intel from him on how to get what they need done.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Mar 30, 2017 6:08:49 GMT -5
If the leaks on Reddit are correct, my favourite moments will be:
1. The NK and his army crossing the Wall with the ice dragon. I'm still hopeful that there will be more to leaks, perhaps we will learn more about the NK. 2. Jaime finally abandoning Cersei, switching sides and going to north following Brienne. I have been waiting for this for years. 3. Tyrion-Jaime reunion. They are my favourite characters and I love their dynamic. 4. Jon in the wight hunt episode. I love his epic adventures. 5. Arya-Sansa-Bran reunions. 6. This is only speculation but I like the theory that Tyrion can poison Cersei during their meeting and cause her to miscarry, making him the valonqar in the books, because he chokes the life from her by killing the baby she carries, and "the hands about her throat" is related to poisoning. If this is the case I would love this moment too. In the show the valonqar prophecy was never mentioned but Tyrion once said that "a time will come when the joy in her mouth will turn to ashes and she will know that the debt was paid". And I think that can parallel the valonqar prophecy, in the show. 7. Jaime-Daenerys encounter in the ambush. This will be very exciting too. 8. Jaime-Euron-Cersei scenes. My guess is that the main point in this triangle will be that Jaime will understand that Cersei is actually the female version of Euron, not himself. He always had this delusion that him and Cersei were the two halves of a whole, soulmates, things like that. But he will despise Euron and will see that it's more like Cersei and Euron are soulmates. 9. Tyrion-Bronn-Podrick reunions. Those scenes are always funny. 10. Daenerys-Cersei, Brienne-Jaime, Brienne-Sandor encounters in the Dragonpit. 11. Tyrion-Jon reunion. They have both changed so much since their last encounter.
Wow, I just noticed that season 7 will truly be sensational, there are so many great scenes, the list just goes on and on.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Apr 1, 2017 21:02:26 GMT -5
The Stark Family Reunion is going to be epic, for many reasons. Other than the Tyrells, I can't think of another family who has lost as much and still managed to regain their ancestral home and title (the King in the North, the King in the North!).
Dragonpit has all the making of an epic collision and I cannot wait. It's like a train wreck of a family picnic, when all the crazy relatives come to visit.
Personally I cannot wait for Littlefinger to get his. The sooner the better and it better involve Arya, Sansa, Ghost, and serious ninja assassin shit.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Apr 1, 2017 21:28:12 GMT -5
The whole premise of the wight hunt makes no sense so there's hardly room for improvement in logistics of the mission for that reason. Going on a suicide mission for Cersei presents a bunch of problems. 1. They don't need her. Their combined forces far outweigh hers. 2. Everyone knows her rep and Tyrion/Varys know exactly what she is like (yet they still approve of this foolishness?). She cannnot be trusted, she cannot possibly be an ally yet they're willing to risk their lives for this? On the off-chance she lets herself be convinced (a long shot) and is shaken enough to want to help? 3. Jon experienced the massacre at Hardhome. He knows wights don't travel solo (big risk) and nowadays White Walkers are right behind them wherever they go. He sooo should know better. And all he takes with him are a bunch of guys (a few of them strangers to him)? Did he really think it'd go well? Unlike his book version, Jon is now nothing more than an action hero (of the dumb, impulsive kind) on the show. It's all about action and reaction. The whole thing just undermines the characters so badly. 4. Jon's the King now. He's responsible for a whole Kingdom and yet he is still eager to go on a suicide mission himself, instead of setting the Night's Watch and/or Wildlings on it if they need that "proof". "Proof" that book!Jon already has in his grasp by A Dance with Dragons. Both the premise and the execution sound bad. The plan for the hunt doesn't seem to have much going for it. I think the fact that the wight hunt seems to be an abject failure is what makes it interesting in the first place. If they had captured that zombie with no losses and then successfully won the alliances they needed, it would have made for a terrible story development. But as it is, it explores recurrent themes in Jon's storyline, namely his relentless, overwhelming idealism (he thinks he can unite the world), which sometimes does more harm than good. He'll be surprised by how little humanity changes even when faced with the end of the world. I think this is an essential part of his story and he will either grow out of it in season 8 or fail miserably one last time. It also raises interesting questions about Jon's (and the North's in general) deep-rooted fatalism. The Starks have been telling us that "Winter is coming" for so long now that we believe them. But the leaks present a curious situation. The Night King does not cross the Wall when Bran goes through it, as some of us thought would be the case pre-leaks. It's only after Jon and Dany go into white walker land and give the Night King a dragon that the so-called apocalypse is set in motion. There's some wonderful irony there that has to be 100% intentional. It's the heroes, not the villains, who make their worst fears come true. This sounds like classic GRRM to me and if I had to bet, it is based on something that will go down in the books (if it was just a meaningless action scene you wouldn't use it as the climax of your penultimate season). The final irony is that they don't even get the alliances they wanted. Cersei smells weakness and denies them their army. Jaime rides north but he's only one man (no matter how important this may turn out to be in the future). Whether the white walkers would have ever crossed the Wall without Jon and Dany's help is, I think, unclear. Honestly, pretty much everything about them is unclear at this point, but my gut tells me the Starks have it all wrong and there's something we're not seeing. I think season 8 won't deal so much with an actual apocalypse as it will about how the numerous characters react to the prospect of it. And that will define the kind of people they are by the end.
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Post by belle on Apr 1, 2017 22:05:22 GMT -5
The whole premise of the wight hunt makes no sense so there's hardly room for improvement in logistics of the mission for that reason. Going on a suicide mission for Cersei presents a bunch of problems. 1. They don't need her. Their combined forces far outweigh hers. 2. Everyone knows her rep and Tyrion/Varys know exactly what she is like (yet they still approve of this foolishness?). She cannnot be trusted, she cannot possibly be an ally yet they're willing to risk their lives for this? On the off-chance she lets herself be convinced (a long shot) and is shaken enough to want to help? 3. Jon experienced the massacre at Hardhome. He knows wights don't travel solo (big risk) and nowadays White Walkers are right behind them wherever they go. He sooo should know better. And all he takes with him are a bunch of guys (a few of them strangers to him)? Did he really think it'd go well? Unlike his book version, Jon is now nothing more than an action hero (of the dumb, impulsive kind) on the show. It's all about action and reaction. The whole thing just undermines the characters so badly. 4. Jon's the King now. He's responsible for a whole Kingdom and yet he is still eager to go on a suicide mission himself, instead of setting the Night's Watch and/or Wildlings on it if they need that "proof". "Proof" that book!Jon already has in his grasp by A Dance with Dragons. Both the premise and the execution sound bad. The plan for the hunt doesn't seem to have much going for it. I think the fact that the wight hunt seems to be an abject failure is what makes it interesting in the first place. If they had captured that zombie with no losses and then successfully won the alliances they needed, it would have made for a terrible story development. But as it is, it explores recurrent themes in Jon's storyline, namely his relentless, overwhelming idealism (he thinks he can unite the world), which sometimes does more harm than good. He'll be surprised by how little humanity changes even when faced with the end of the world. I think this is an essential part of his story and he will either grow out of it in season 8 or fail miserably one last time. It also raises interesting questions about Jon's (and the North's in general) deep-rooted fatalism. The Starks have been telling us that "Winter is coming" for so long now that we believe them. But the leaks present a curious situation. The Night King does not cross the Wall when Bran goes through it, as some of us thought would be the case pre-leaks. It's only after Jon and Dany go into white walker land and give the Night King a dragon that the so-called apocalypse is set in motion. There's some wonderful irony there that has to be 100% intentional. It's the heroes, not the villains, who make their worst fears come true. This sounds like classic GRRM to me and if I had to bet, it is based on something that will go down in the books (if it was just a meaningless action scene you wouldn't use it as the climax of your penultimate season). The final irony is that they don't even get the alliances they wanted. Cersei smells weakness and denies them their army. Jaime rides north but he's only one man (no matter how important this may turn out to be in the future). Whether the white walkers would have ever crossed the Wall without Jon and Dany's help is, I think, unclear. Honestly, pretty much everything about them is unclear at this point, but my gut tells me the Starks have it all wrong and there's something we're not seeing. I think season 8 won't deal so much with an actual apocalypse as it will about how the numerous characters react to the prospect of it. And that will define the kind of people they are by the end. [ I love the way you describe all of this and I agree with a lot of it. Tbh my biggest problems with the leaks is the Winterfell storyline. I'm not feeling it in the slightest.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 1, 2017 23:25:37 GMT -5
belle tbh i don't get what's so bad about WF. I've heard complaints about it, but I don't have any issues tbh. The Stark bbs reunite, LF tries to turn them against each other but gets ganked. Sounds good to me. I know there's Bran spoilers that I'm not too familiar with, so maybe that's it...
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 1, 2017 23:34:48 GMT -5
belle tbh i don't get what's so bad about WF. I've heard complaints about it, but I don't have any issues tbh. The Stark bbs reunite, LF tries to turn them against each other but gets ganked. Sounds good to me. I know there's Bran spoilers that I'm not too familiar with, so maybe that's it... We also know very little about how things go there step by scene by scene since way more people asked Lads about Jon and Dany. I like how all three siblings play their part in bringing him down. r/freefolk seems to be trying to spin that as it all being about Sansa but I don't see how that's the case. Bran provides the intel, Sansa makes the call and Arya does the deed. That fits with all of their training and respective roles pretty damn well.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 1, 2017 23:42:38 GMT -5
belle tbh i don't get what's so bad about WF. I've heard complaints about it, but I don't have any issues tbh. The Stark bbs reunite, LF tries to turn them against each other but gets ganked. Sounds good to me. I know there's Bran spoilers that I'm not too familiar with, so maybe that's it... We also know very little about how things go there step by scene by scene since way more people asked Lads about Jon and Dany. I like how all three siblings play their part in bringing him down. r/freefolk seems to be trying to spin that as it all being about Sansa but I don't see how that's the case. Bran provides the intel, Sansa makes the call and Arya does the deed. That fits with all of their training and respective roles pretty damn well. agreed! r/freefolk has it out for sansa for some reason, idk why. but i agree completely. I think some people are trying to spin it as Sansa being a wimp for not killing LF herself, and as Arya being reduced to Sansa's henchwoman. But that's not how I took it. Sansa is the politician, the "thinker," and the one with the relationship with Littlefinger. It would make sense that she's the one, politically and emotionally, that settles on Littlefinger's execution. But, she's not a killer. Arya is. Arya's whole story has been about becoming a killer and avenging the Starks. Once Bran tells them that LF is the root of most of House Stark's problems, Arya would naturally want to take him out. And she's the fighter, so it makes sense that she is the one swinging the sword. I think they are saying it's a violation of Ned's "the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword" thing, but this is Sansa we're talking about. She's getting ruthless, but not enough to take a life with her own hands.
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 1, 2017 23:46:14 GMT -5
Btw posting that made me think for the first time that Bran should be Master of Whisperers at the end of the story. For some reason I'd had it in my head that Arya would be better suited to that. Ignoring the fact that Bran is Bloodraven 2.0...who was Master of Whisperers. An oversight on my part. The official Konrad position is now Arya kills the NK with LF's dagger melted and cast around Needle and Bran becomes Master of Whisperers.
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belle
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Post by belle on Apr 1, 2017 23:54:09 GMT -5
belle tbh i don't get what's so bad about WF. I've heard complaints about it, but I don't have any issues tbh. The Stark bbs reunite, LF tries to turn them against each other but gets ganked. Sounds good to me. I know there's Bran spoilers that I'm not too familiar with, so maybe that's it... It's just overall very underwhelming imo. not a fan of the how any of the characters come across. Don't like how arya is being reduced to this killer either. I'm sick of the revenge porn with her character. And show bran has no personality or agency except being a flashback device. It's also stupid to me that Sansa would wait till the last episode to ask bran about LF
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 1, 2017 23:55:32 GMT -5
Btw posting that made me think for the first time that Bran should be Master of Whisperers at the end of the story. For some reason I'd had it in my head that Arya would be better suited to that. Ignoring the fact that Bran is Bloodraven 2.0...who was Master of Whisperers. An oversight on my part. The official Konrad position is now Arya kills the NK with LF's dagger melted and cast around Needle and Bran becomes Master of Whisperers. I don't actually see either of them holding any official position. I think Arya would reject any political responsibilities, and instead with adventure around the world with Gendry as a medieval Brangelina. Explorers/bffs/totally in love. Bran is the new 3ER, so I think he too would step out of the political sphere. I could see him just becoming some wise old wizard who lurks around Winterfell. Sansa will be Wardeness of the North. I like the idea of melting down the dagger over needle to make it Valyrian steel. Gendry could do it!
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 1, 2017 23:56:51 GMT -5
belle tbh i don't get what's so bad about WF. I've heard complaints about it, but I don't have any issues tbh. The Stark bbs reunite, LF tries to turn them against each other but gets ganked. Sounds good to me. I know there's Bran spoilers that I'm not too familiar with, so maybe that's it... It's just overall very underwhelming imo. not a fan of the how any of the characters come across. that's fair. i guess it is a little late in the game for sibling bickering, but if it's well done intrigue, I am sure I will love it. Besides, anything that leads to littlefinger dying i am down for.
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Post by konradsmith on Apr 2, 2017 0:00:20 GMT -5
It's just overall very underwhelming imo. not a fan of the how any of the characters come across. that's fair. i guess it is a little late in the game for sibling bickering, but if it's well done intrigue, I am sure I will love it. Besides, anything that leads to littlefinger dying i am down for. Plus Sophie and Maisie have become great friends since s1 and yet haven't had scenes together since then, so I'm sure their chemistry will add a lot of weight to their reunion and subsequent scenes.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Apr 2, 2017 0:04:29 GMT -5
that's fair. i guess it is a little late in the game for sibling bickering, but if it's well done intrigue, I am sure I will love it. Besides, anything that leads to littlefinger dying i am down for. Plus Sophie and Maisie have become great friends since s1 and yet haven't had scenes together since then, so I'm sure their chemistry will add a lot of weight to their reunion and subsequent scenes. yeah i'm sure the chemistry will be off the charts. We never really saw Bran interacting with any of his siblings (at least the ones still alive) so I'm interested in seeing how that will play out. Hearing him and Arya talk will be great. Just realized how devastated Bran will be when he learns what happened to Rickon and Osha
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