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Post by King Tommen on May 22, 2017 20:20:28 GMT -5
Quick list of times Dany had her enemies die a painful death:
Gave the ok to her husband to pour liquid gold on her brother Viserys, burned Mirri alive in a pyre, had her dragons roast Pyat Pree, locked Xaro and Doreah in an airtight vault, had Kraznys and his masters roasted and murdered, killed 1 Mereen master for every slave on a stake, had another Mereen master eaten by dragons after Selmy died, a bunch of Dothraki khals burnt to death in a tent, had Greyworm slit the throats of the Yunkish guys opposing her, had her dragons destroy every Yunish/Mereenese/Volantine person the ships outside Meereen.
Why would it be so out of character that she has the shithead Tarly's who betrayed her ally and who refused to bend the knee roasted? It would be weird if she didn't.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 20:58:13 GMT -5
You forgot the wine merchant she drug naked behind her horse. Don't sell her short.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 21:52:25 GMT -5
Dany is not going to stop mercilessly killing the people who she believes have done wrong to her. She's been doing it since S1, people need to be ok with this if they're going to accept her as a ruler. People dislike it when it comes to her because she's a woman and I hate to bring up gender card but I have to. Stannis did that and people were fine with it. One True King! Jon executed a child, almost Ramsay to death. When you look at it, he's displays far more agressive or radical killings than many other characters. He was justified in those killings or acts, but same way Dany or others. Sometimes easiest answer is the correct. Tarlys bertrayed Tyrells, much like Boltons bertrayed Starks = Dany will go Aegon Conqueror on them. Jon would probably do the same thing because if someone wants to bring up Karstark and Umbers kids, different situation where neither Jon or Dany would blame them. But this is war and in war people die. I can't remember right now if we discussed this on a different thread or somewhere else but this was pretty much our conclusion. The Tarleys betrayed their liege Lady and sided with the woman who murdered his former liege Lord. They declare war on them in order to gain power. Dany goes on to defend her ally and when she captures the Tarlys she gives them the option to bend the knee and presumably forgive their betrayal or be lenient in her punishment but they refuse. So she has them executed. That's well within the her right as the victorious party in a war. I'm sure before going down Papa Tarly will say some racist shit about the Dothraki being as he is a xenophobic as we saw with how he behaved with Gilly. I feel sort of sorry for Dickon but then agains people can be manipulated very easily. Papa Tarly said we're going to war with these barbaric people, invaders and he'll go. I wouldn't be surprised if Dickon's death will seen as "mad act" or if producers plays that Aerys card again "Oh look she's getting mad more and more." It's a cheap thing to do when we know they won't go there per their words - but for the sake of drama. Let's have Tyrion and Varys of all people question her judgement because they're morally clean so to speak, right? I really dislike this part of spoilers.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on May 23, 2017 0:03:09 GMT -5
This is STUNNING. Also forgot to add this to the OP.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 8:10:02 GMT -5
Dany is not going to stop mercilessly killing the people who she believes have done wrong to her. She's been doing it since S1, people need to be ok with this if they're going to accept her as a ruler. People dislike it when it comes to her because she's a woman and I hate to bring up gender card but I have to. Stannis did that and people were fine with it. One True King! Jon executed a child, almost Ramsay to death. When you look at it, he's displays far more agressive or radical killings than many other characters. He was justified in those killings or acts, but same way Dany or others. I can't remember right now if we discussed this on a different thread or somewhere else but this was pretty much our conclusion. The Tarleys betrayed their liege Lady and sided with the woman who murdered his former liege Lord. They declare war on them in order to gain power. Dany goes on to defend her ally and when she captures the Tarlys she gives them the option to bend the knee and presumably forgive their betrayal or be lenient in her punishment but they refuse. So she has them executed. That's well within the her right as the victorious party in a war. I'm sure before going down Papa Tarly will say some racist shit about the Dothraki being as he is a xenophobic as we saw with how he behaved with Gilly. I feel sort of sorry for Dickon but then agains people can be manipulated very easily. Papa Tarly said we're going to war with these barbaric people, invaders and he'll go. I wouldn't be surprised if Dickon's death will seen as "mad act" or if producers plays that Aerys card again "Oh look she's getting mad more and more." It's a cheap thing to do when we know they won't go there per their words - but for the sake of drama. Let's have Tyrion and Varys of all people question her judgement because they're morally clean so to speak, right? I really dislike this part of spoilers. That is what I meant, I have no problem with Daenerys executing traitors, none at all. It's the way they might frame it that annoys me, when Jon executed the stabbers there were no moral objection by any characters as it was logical and if they do the same with Daenerys I would have no problem... but if Tyrion acts like the moral compass by being disgusted than it is different and not by my choice but by the writers choice. Tyrion should understabd how war works.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 23, 2017 8:48:46 GMT -5
Exactly. The Tarlys have shown themselves as traitors. Remember, Dany isn't going to play by the old House Alliance rules. Treason will be dealt with, and I'm sure Papa Tarly has somethings to say which will not sit well with our Dragon Queen. He does have a mouth on him.
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Post by King Tommen on May 23, 2017 9:49:24 GMT -5
I don't think it's a bad thing to have some of the methods used by our "heroes" questioned. Dany isn't all rainbow and unicorns and there is definitely a question about how ruthless she can be. That's an ongoing thread with her. Continuing that only makes sense.
I think there's sometimes an oversensitivity from individual character fans that their favourite character isn't being portrayed as 100% virtuous or just. Many of the examples I provided of Dany's actions above have other characters either questioning her choice or being put off somewhat by her level of vengeance/ruthlessness. All of Jorah/Selmy/Missandei etc have done this and now it's Tyrion's turn.
Dany going overboard in her distribution of revenge and justice is not a new thing and will be an element they continue with probably until the end of the series. The audience is supposed to be questioning her mindset even when being on board with her actions. It makes you question your own level of bloodlust too which is what good writing should do. It would be boring if she did the 100% right thing every single time.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 23, 2017 10:13:25 GMT -5
When Dany is riled up, she gets that attitude similar to Viserys, very 'entitled' and willing to got to extremes to settle scores. After the great wars to come, I imagine the Dothraki will settle in that area of Westros: the Reach, Stormlands, and possibly even Dorne. I doubt they will want to be anywhere near the North, perhaps a few in King's Landing, perhaps the Riverlands, but they are a warm weather people, and the pastures and meadows of the Reach will be very attractive to Dany's blood riders.
War and conquest isn't pretty, and sometimes you have to break a few eggs to prove to the natives you're serious about your intentions. Daario said it best when he told her that she's a conqueror not a ruler. Conqueror aren't know for their great compassion.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:31:03 GMT -5
When Dany is riled up, she gets that attitude similar to Viserys, very 'entitled' and willing to got to extremes to settle scores. After the great wars to come, I imagine the Dothraki will settle in that area of Westros: the Reach, Stormlands, and possibly even Dorne. I doubt they will want to be anywhere near the North, perhaps a few in King's Landing, perhaps the Riverlands, but they are a warm weather people, and the pastures and meadows of the Reach will be very attractive to Dany's blood riders. War and conquest isn't pretty, and sometimes you have to break a few eggs to prove to the natives you're serious about your intentions. Daario said it best when he told her that she's a conqueror not a ruler. Conqueror aren't know for their great compassion.Yet she's easily the most compassionate character in the story.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 23, 2017 10:37:18 GMT -5
Whatever happens, all I know is that I'm fuckin HYPE.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 23, 2017 10:50:50 GMT -5
When Dany is riled up, she gets that attitude similar to Viserys, very 'entitled' and willing to got to extremes to settle scores. After the great wars to come, I imagine the Dothraki will settle in that area of Westros: the Reach, Stormlands, and possibly even Dorne. I doubt they will want to be anywhere near the North, perhaps a few in King's Landing, perhaps the Riverlands, but they are a warm weather people, and the pastures and meadows of the Reach will be very attractive to Dany's blood riders. War and conquest isn't pretty, and sometimes you have to break a few eggs to prove to the natives you're serious about your intentions. Daario said it best when he told her that she's a conqueror not a ruler. Conqueror aren't know for their great compassion.Yet she's easily the most compassionate character in the story. Dany learned her compassion being kicked, sold, and abused. She knows the plight of the common people under the yoke of privileged oppression. It's that compassion that allows her to listen other people's council before listening to her heart. I am beyond ready for a trailer. Please let there be scenes of the Drogon and the Boys in action!
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Post by belle on May 23, 2017 10:52:29 GMT -5
tbh at moments like these it annoys me of how much a white knight show tyrion has become. can you guys imagine season 2 tyrion questioning dany for killing traitors? i can't. from seasons 1-4 while the showrunners made tyrion more palatable, he was still a little morally ambiguous and grey and interesting. but since season 5, he's just been a Good Guy and nothing else.
i don't really care that they didn't make him as dark as ADWD tyrion or whatever. but him just being so saintly annoys me lol. not only is it boring, but also a little lame and ham-fisted at moments like these. meh.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 10:59:58 GMT -5
tbh at moments like these it annoys me of how much a white knight show tyrion has become. can you guys imagine season 2 tyrion questioning dany for killing traitors? i can't. from seasons 1-4 while the showrunners made tyrion more palatable, he was still a little morally ambiguous and grey and interesting. but since season 5, he's just been a Good Guy and nothing else. i don't really care that they didn't make him as dark as ADWD tyrion or whatever. but him just being so saintly annoys me lol. not only is it boring, but also a little lame and ham-fisted at moments like these. meh. They didn't have to have him raping bed slaves, but they could have kept some of his darker moments from the books. Put someone in a stew, not kill Shae out of self defense, something. I can't imagine book Tyrion even batting an eye over Dany roasting someone with her dragons.
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Post by moiaf on May 23, 2017 11:03:36 GMT -5
Quick list of times Dany had her enemies die a painful death: Gave the ok to her husband to pour liquid gold on her brother Viserys, burned Mirri alive in a pyre, had her dragons roast Pyat Pree, locked Xaro and Doreah in an airtight vault, had Kraznys and his masters roasted and murdered, killed 1 Mereen master for every slave on a stake, had another Mereen master eaten by dragons after Selmy died, a bunch of Dothraki khals burnt to death in a tent, had Greyworm slit the throats of the Yunkish guys opposing her, had her dragons destroy every Yunish/Mereenese/Volantine person the ships outside Meereen. Why would it be so out of character that she has the shithead Tarly's who betrayed her ally and who refused to bend the knee roasted? It would be weird if she didn't. While Dany most certainly has a ruthless streak, her ruthlessness has been directed at those who hurt others. She is impulsive at times and that something she certainly has to work towards but that is part of the growing pains of most rulers especially a ruler who has had to learn in such a violent environment. As for your list, I think it's very disingenuous of you to include some of these there. 1. "Gave the ok to her husband to pour liquid gold on her brother Visery" - This is bullshit and you know it. This is neither true in the show or the books and while Dany was well within her right to want her brother punished after he threaten to carve her child out her body, she didn't give the "okay" for Drogo to pour molten gold on her brother's head. She merely chose not to plead for her brother. Knowing full well, as we do int he books, that nothing she said would have changed what was about to happen. Also, how the hell would she know that that would be the punishment Drogo came up with. I know Dany is extraordinarily talented, but I didn't realize she was a mind reader. 2. "burned Mirri alive in a pyre" - Indeed she did and while I don't blame Mirri for what she did to Drogo (he deserved it) I do blame her for the murder of Rhaego. Again, Dany was well within her right to execute her for murdering her child. 3. "had her dragons roast Pyat Pree," - Again, complete bullshit. She was literally chained up by Pyat Pree and told she would be a slave for all eternity. What the hell was she suppose to do, talk her way out of the situation. This was clearly a case of self defense. 4. "locked Xaro and Doreah in an airtight vaul" - I will agree that this was a cruel punishment. Both Doreah and Xaro betrayed Dany and had most of her household murdered but she could have probably just had them executed for their crimes. 5. "had Kraznys and his masters roasted and murdered" - Live by the sword die by the sword. Those Masters were beyond cruel and deserved everything they got. 6. "killed 1 Mereen master for every slave on a stake" - No one ever thinks about the kids. Not a problem with this one. 7. " had another Mereen master eaten by dragons after Selmy died" - This is the one time I was actually upset and would say even given the circumstances her action was questionable. 8. " a bunch of Dothraki khals burnt to death in a tent" -After they threaten to rape and murder her. Self-defense. 9. "had Greyworm slit the throats of the Yunkish guys opposing her" - They declared war on Dany after being given multiple opportunities. Well within the rules of war. 10. "had her dragons destroy every Yunish/Mereenese/Volantine person the ships outside Meereen" - They only destroyed one ship as a show of power to get the soldiers to abandon the Master. She was actually being incredibly benevolent as they were attacking her city and killing her people. She actually gave the slave soldiers freedom in exchange for abandoning the Master war on Meereen., This act saved thousands of lives. It's admirable.
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Post by belle on May 23, 2017 11:04:33 GMT -5
tbh at moments like these it annoys me of how much a white knight show tyrion has become. can you guys imagine season 2 tyrion questioning dany for killing traitors? i can't. from seasons 1-4 while the showrunners made tyrion more palatable, he was still a little morally ambiguous and grey and interesting. but since season 5, he's just been a Good Guy and nothing else. i don't really care that they didn't make him as dark as ADWD tyrion or whatever. but him just being so saintly annoys me lol. not only is it boring, but also a little lame and ham-fisted at moments like these. meh. They didn't have to have him raping bed slaves, but they could have kept some of his darker moments from the books. Put someone in a stew, not kill Shae out of self defense, something. I can't imagine book Tyrion even batting an eye over Dany roasting someone with her dragons. yes that's exactly my point. honestly i really liked show tyrion even with all the changes from seasons 1-4. its season 5 where they lost me. killing his father and lover barely had any affect on him besides being a little more tired and grumpy and drinking a little bit more. i would have just liked 50% of his ADWD emotional devastation onscreen. they could have at least got a little bit of that emotion onscreen without him actually doing the terrible things that ADWD tyrion did. for the past 2 years, the only tyrion scenes that i've liked have been his scenes with the dragons in 6x02 and the scene with dany in 6x10. thats it.
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