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Post by Envie on May 18, 2017 6:10:36 GMT -5
Martin thought the return to the shire in LOTR was most perfect, describing it as bittersweet. Which it was, nobody actually dies though, what happened though? Change, they were changed the world was changed the shire was changed. It's very bittersweet for an ending and for the reader. Yes that's the comparison to the Shire I was referring to and think is what GRRM actually had in mind. The Shire actually got messed up, but they left that out of the movies and made it this lovely place that stayed the same and when Frodo and company returned, it was still the same (for a happy ending in the movie). Except, it wasn't really in the books. For non LotR people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scouring_of_the_ShireThis was "the loss of innocence" theme I think GRRM has been going for all along when he refers to a bittersweet ending. All of the children from the start of the story (those who have survived) are now grown up and vastly changed from the innocent lives they had before. We've already been experiencing the bittersweet story all along and people don't even realize it. They're expecting some big tragic ending where either Dany or Jon dies and the other is left heartbroken. I don't think that's going to happen. They won't even have been together that long by now. I think if it was going to be some big tragic Romeo and Juliet romance, they would have already been together and fighting against Cersei and the White Walkers for the past years. But that's not how it's ending up. Two young people who have spent their entire lives fighting and saving the people who trust and believe in them in entirely different worlds are going to abruptly come together just before the grand finale. I didn't see that coming either to be honest and now I have to rethink it because if that's how it's playing out, we're not really going to see some sort of amazing romance story here at all. Killing one or both of them at this point seems, well, pointless. That's not bittersweet. That's just a big fat bummer. 7 books later and, that's it? Yes it's the journey but what was the point of investing in their journey if they're just going to die at the end? And to be very clear, I was never a huge Jon/Dany shipper to start with, so that's not my complaint. I'll quote Sansa on this one: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."
It had better be worth it if Jon or Daenerys dies. And there better be a payoff for the rest of the world. I'm not looking for a literal translation of Azor Ahai prophecies, I don't believe it was literal anyways. So the "big sacrifice" theorists had better have a solid and satisfying ending to justify the means in killing off one of the two to convince me.
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Post by moiaf on May 19, 2017 20:40:22 GMT -5
Martin thought the return to the shire in LOTR was most perfect, describing it as bittersweet. Which it was, nobody actually dies though, what happened though? Change, they were changed the world was changed the shire was changed. It's very bittersweet for an ending and for the reader. Yes that's the comparison to the Shire I was referring to and think is what GRRM actually had in mind. The Shire actually got messed up, but they left that out of the movies and made it this lovely place that stayed the same and when Frodo and company returned, it was still the same (for a happy ending in the movie). Except, it wasn't really in the books. For non LotR people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scouring_of_the_ShireThis was "the loss of innocence" theme I think GRRM has been going for all along when he refers to a bittersweet ending. All of the children from the start of the story (those who have survived) are now grown up and vastly changed from the innocent lives they had before. We've already been experiencing the bittersweet story all along and people don't even realize it. They're expecting some big tragic ending where either Dany or Jon dies and the other is left heartbroken. I don't think that's going to happen. They won't even have been together that long by now. I think if it was going to be some big tragic Romeo and Juliet romance, they would have already been together and fighting against Cersei and the White Walkers for the past years. But that's not how it's ending up. Two young people who have spent their entire lives fighting and saving the people who trust and believe in them in entirely different worlds are going to abruptly come together just before the grand finale. I didn't see that coming either to be honest and now I have to rethink it because if that's how it's playing out, we're not really going to see some sort of amazing romance story here at all. Killing one or both of them at this point seems, well, pointless. That's not bittersweet. That's just a big fat bummer. 7 books later and, that's it? Yes it's the journey but what was the point of investing in their journey if they're just going to die at the end? And to be very clear, I was never a huge Jon/Dany shipper to start with, so that's not my complaint. I'll quote Sansa on this one: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."
It had better be worth it if Jon or Daenerys dies. And there better be a payoff for the rest of the world. I'm not looking for a literal translation of Azor Ahai prophecies, I don't believe it was literal anyways. So the "big sacrifice" theorists had better have a solid and satisfying ending to justify the means in killing off one of the two to convince me. I think we'll see the beginning of a romantic relationship but it wouldn't be exactly like Aragon and Arwen. Unless of course we have a time jump in season 8, which I've been considering for a while.
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Post by belle on May 19, 2017 22:05:33 GMT -5
Yes that's the comparison to the Shire I was referring to and think is what GRRM actually had in mind. The Shire actually got messed up, but they left that out of the movies and made it this lovely place that stayed the same and when Frodo and company returned, it was still the same (for a happy ending in the movie). Except, it wasn't really in the books. For non LotR people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scouring_of_the_ShireThis was "the loss of innocence" theme I think GRRM has been going for all along when he refers to a bittersweet ending. All of the children from the start of the story (those who have survived) are now grown up and vastly changed from the innocent lives they had before. We've already been experiencing the bittersweet story all along and people don't even realize it. They're expecting some big tragic ending where either Dany or Jon dies and the other is left heartbroken. I don't think that's going to happen. They won't even have been together that long by now. I think if it was going to be some big tragic Romeo and Juliet romance, they would have already been together and fighting against Cersei and the White Walkers for the past years. But that's not how it's ending up. Two young people who have spent their entire lives fighting and saving the people who trust and believe in them in entirely different worlds are going to abruptly come together just before the grand finale. I didn't see that coming either to be honest and now I have to rethink it because if that's how it's playing out, we're not really going to see some sort of amazing romance story here at all. Killing one or both of them at this point seems, well, pointless. That's not bittersweet. That's just a big fat bummer. 7 books later and, that's it? Yes it's the journey but what was the point of investing in their journey if they're just going to die at the end? And to be very clear, I was never a huge Jon/Dany shipper to start with, so that's not my complaint. I'll quote Sansa on this one: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."
It had better be worth it if Jon or Daenerys dies. And there better be a payoff for the rest of the world. I'm not looking for a literal translation of Azor Ahai prophecies, I don't believe it was literal anyways. So the "big sacrifice" theorists had better have a solid and satisfying ending to justify the means in killing off one of the two to convince me. I think we'll see the beginning of a romantic relationship but it wouldn't be exactly like Aragon and Arwen. Unless of course we have a time jump in season 8, which I've been considering for a while. if dany gets pregnant, how long till she has the baby i wonder....? the season 7 leak that cersei finds out about her pregnancy at the end of episode 5, then skips episode 6 and then has the miscarriage at the end of episode 7....makes me think that they might not drag out dany's pregnancy till the entirety of season 8. that she'll find out she's pregnant and then give birth within the next 2 or 3 episodes. i guess it all depends on whether its season 7 boatsex that gets her pregnant or sex in season 8 that gets her pregnant.
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Lordimp
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Post by Lordimp on May 20, 2017 14:47:34 GMT -5
The show ending will pretty much be similar to the book ending and GRRM has said that his ending will be bittersweet. I wouldnt call a ending where Jon , Dany , Tyrion and Arya all live a bittersweet ending . So i'm leaning towards Dany and Arya dying in season 8 . And Cersei and Jaime are goners aswell .
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Post by sercreighton on May 20, 2017 17:04:01 GMT -5
Martin thought the return to the shire in LOTR was most perfect, describing it as bittersweet. Which it was, nobody actually dies though, what happened though? Change, they were changed the world was changed the shire was changed. It's very bittersweet for an ending and for the reader. Yes that's the comparison to the Shire I was referring to and think is what GRRM actually had in mind. The Shire actually got messed up, but they left that out of the movies and made it this lovely place that stayed the same and when Frodo and company returned, it was still the same (for a happy ending in the movie). Except, it wasn't really in the books. For non LotR people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scouring_of_the_ShireThis was "the loss of innocence" theme I think GRRM has been going for all along when he refers to a bittersweet ending. All of the children from the start of the story (those who have survived) are now grown up and vastly changed from the innocent lives they had before. We've already been experiencing the bittersweet story all along and people don't even realize it. They're expecting some big tragic ending where either Dany or Jon dies and the other is left heartbroken. I don't think that's going to happen. They won't even have been together that long by now. I think if it was going to be some big tragic Romeo and Juliet romance, they would have already been together and fighting against Cersei and the White Walkers for the past years. But that's not how it's ending up. Two young people who have spent their entire lives fighting and saving the people who trust and believe in them in entirely different worlds are going to abruptly come together just before the grand finale. I didn't see that coming either to be honest and now I have to rethink it because if that's how it's playing out, we're not really going to see some sort of amazing romance story here at all. Killing one or both of them at this point seems, well, pointless. That's not bittersweet. That's just a big fat bummer. 7 books later and, that's it? Yes it's the journey but what was the point of investing in their journey if they're just going to die at the end? And to be very clear, I was never a huge Jon/Dany shipper to start with, so that's not my complaint. I'll quote Sansa on this one: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."
It had better be worth it if Jon or Daenerys dies. And there better be a payoff for the rest of the world. I'm not looking for a literal translation of Azor Ahai prophecies, I don't believe it was literal anyways. So the "big sacrifice" theorists had better have a solid and satisfying ending to justify the means in killing off one of the two to convince me. Reminds me of Beric and this "Don't bring me back." The whole death changes you and chips away at who you are thing.
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Post by sercreighton on May 20, 2017 17:05:21 GMT -5
I think we'll see the beginning of a romantic relationship but it wouldn't be exactly like Aragon and Arwen. Unless of course we have a time jump in season 8, which I've been considering for a while. if dany gets pregnant, how long till she has the baby i wonder....? the season 7 leak that cersei finds out about her pregnancy at the end of episode 5, then skips episode 6 and then has the miscarriage at the end of episode 7....makes me think that they might not drag out dany's pregnancy till the entirety of season 8. that she'll find out she's pregnant and then give birth within the next 2 or 3 episodes. i guess it all depends on whether its season 7 boatsex that gets her pregnant or sex in season 8 that gets her pregnant. It would be a nice juxtaposition with Dany if she has a miscarriage and Dany and Jon hook up.
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Post by Lils on May 24, 2017 19:07:27 GMT -5
Martin thought the return to the shire in LOTR was most perfect, describing it as bittersweet. Which it was, nobody actually dies though, what happened though? Change, they were changed the world was changed the shire was changed. It's very bittersweet for an ending and for the reader. Yes that's the comparison to the Shire I was referring to and think is what GRRM actually had in mind. The Shire actually got messed up, but they left that out of the movies and made it this lovely place that stayed the same and when Frodo and company returned, it was still the same (for a happy ending in the movie). Except, it wasn't really in the books. For non LotR people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scouring_of_the_ShireThis was "the loss of innocence" theme I think GRRM has been going for all along when he refers to a bittersweet ending. All of the children from the start of the story (those who have survived) are now grown up and vastly changed from the innocent lives they had before. We've already been experiencing the bittersweet story all along and people don't even realize it. They're expecting some big tragic ending where either Dany or Jon dies and the other is left heartbroken. I don't think that's going to happen. They won't even have been together that long by now. I think if it was going to be some big tragic Romeo and Juliet romance, they would have already been together and fighting against Cersei and the White Walkers for the past years. But that's not how it's ending up. Two young people who have spent their entire lives fighting and saving the people who trust and believe in them in entirely different worlds are going to abruptly come together just before the grand finale. I didn't see that coming either to be honest and now I have to rethink it because if that's how it's playing out, we're not really going to see some sort of amazing romance story here at all. Killing one or both of them at this point seems, well, pointless. That's not bittersweet. That's just a big fat bummer. 7 books later and, that's it? Yes it's the journey but what was the point of investing in their journey if they're just going to die at the end? And to be very clear, I was never a huge Jon/Dany shipper to start with, so that's not my complaint. I'll quote Sansa on this one: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."
It had better be worth it if Jon or Daenerys dies. And there better be a payoff for the rest of the world. I'm not looking for a literal translation of Azor Ahai prophecies, I don't believe it was literal anyways. So the "big sacrifice" theorists had better have a solid and satisfying ending to justify the means in killing off one of the two to convince me. This is how I've felt about the ending as well. I honestly don't think it's going to be a tragic one of them dies ending. It really is the loss of innocence and I think there will be a shift for them in how they view the world. I don't think one will be sacrificed for Azor Ahai either because that is a bit literal. Given that Jon and Dany have both lost a love to death, it would be redundant imo.
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Post by moiaf on May 27, 2017 5:34:53 GMT -5
Yes that's the comparison to the Shire I was referring to and think is what GRRM actually had in mind. The Shire actually got messed up, but they left that out of the movies and made it this lovely place that stayed the same and when Frodo and company returned, it was still the same (for a happy ending in the movie). Except, it wasn't really in the books. For non LotR people: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scouring_of_the_ShireThis was "the loss of innocence" theme I think GRRM has been going for all along when he refers to a bittersweet ending. All of the children from the start of the story (those who have survived) are now grown up and vastly changed from the innocent lives they had before. We've already been experiencing the bittersweet story all along and people don't even realize it. They're expecting some big tragic ending where either Dany or Jon dies and the other is left heartbroken. I don't think that's going to happen. They won't even have been together that long by now. I think if it was going to be some big tragic Romeo and Juliet romance, they would have already been together and fighting against Cersei and the White Walkers for the past years. But that's not how it's ending up. Two young people who have spent their entire lives fighting and saving the people who trust and believe in them in entirely different worlds are going to abruptly come together just before the grand finale. I didn't see that coming either to be honest and now I have to rethink it because if that's how it's playing out, we're not really going to see some sort of amazing romance story here at all. Killing one or both of them at this point seems, well, pointless. That's not bittersweet. That's just a big fat bummer. 7 books later and, that's it? Yes it's the journey but what was the point of investing in their journey if they're just going to die at the end? And to be very clear, I was never a huge Jon/Dany shipper to start with, so that's not my complaint. I'll quote Sansa on this one: "If I'm going to die, let it happen while there's still some of me left."
It had better be worth it if Jon or Daenerys dies. And there better be a payoff for the rest of the world. I'm not looking for a literal translation of Azor Ahai prophecies, I don't believe it was literal anyways. So the "big sacrifice" theorists had better have a solid and satisfying ending to justify the means in killing off one of the two to convince me. This is how I've felt about the ending as well. I honestly don't think it's going to be a tragic one of them dies ending. It really is the loss of innocence and I think there will be a shift for them in how they view the world. I don't think one will be sacrificed for Azor Ahai either because that is a bit literal. Given that Jon and Dany have both lost a love to death, it would be redundant imo. You know what just occurred to me as I lay here half-asleep. If Cersei has a miscarriage as Dany is getting pregnant it's could be part of the YMBQ prophecy. Cersei will certainly find out Dany is pregnant in season 8 and she could see it as Dany "stealing" her pregnancy. Given how important motherhood is to Cersei this is a huge thing. The prophecy is literal without being literal. If that makes sense. ETA: Dany also "takes" Jaime from Cersei. He's not leaving Cersei to be with Dany of course but he's leaving Cersei to fight with Dany and co. (I know Joame is leaving to the North alone but he'll probably make contact with Jon and Dany to coordinate attacks and such)
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Post by nikma on May 27, 2017 8:19:38 GMT -5
I'm still convinced that Jon will have to kill Dany at the end. Nissa Nissa was put in the books for a reason.
And I think that's the third big twist that D&D promised.
I just don't see Dany ruling in the end.
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Post by belle on May 27, 2017 8:50:37 GMT -5
This is how I've felt about the ending as well. I honestly don't think it's going to be a tragic one of them dies ending. It really is the loss of innocence and I think there will be a shift for them in how they view the world. I don't think one will be sacrificed for Azor Ahai either because that is a bit literal. Given that Jon and Dany have both lost a love to death, it would be redundant imo. You know what just occurred to me as I lay here half-asleep. If Cersei has a miscarriage as Dany is getting pregnant it's could be part of the YMBQ prophecy. Cersei will certainly find out Dany is pregnant in season 8 and she could see it as Dany "stealing" her pregnancy. Given how important motherhood is to Cersei this is a huge thing. The prophecy is literal without being literal. If that makes sense. i don't think dany is going to get pregnant by boatsex. if she got pregnant then, then she couldn't fight in the battles of season 8. i think its much MUCH more likely that she'll get pregnant near the end of season 8 and then the episode after that will have a little bit of a time jump and just show her with her bb. something like her finding out she's pregnant in 8x05 and then we see her with her baby in 8x06.
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Post by moiaf on May 27, 2017 8:55:10 GMT -5
You know what just occurred to me as I lay here half-asleep. If Cersei has a miscarriage as Dany is getting pregnant it's could be part of the YMBQ prophecy. Cersei will certainly find out Dany is pregnant in season 8 and she could see it as Dany "stealing" her pregnancy. Given how important motherhood is to Cersei this is a huge thing. The prophecy is literal without being literal. If that makes sense. i don't think dany is going to get pregnant by boatsex. if she got pregnant then, then she couldn't fight in the battles of season 8. i think its much MUCH more likely that she'll get pregnant near the end of season 8 and then the episode after that will have a little bit of a time jump and just show her with her bb. something like her finding out she's pregnant in 8x05 and then we see her with her baby in 8x06. Not having watched the season I can't say for sure, obviously. But given what we know I'm pretty sure it'll happen during boatsex and the time-jump will happen early next season. Maybe second or third episode.
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Post by moiaf on May 27, 2017 8:56:09 GMT -5
I'm still convinced that Jon will have to kill Dany at the end. Nissa Nissa was put in the books for a reason. And I think that's the third big twist that D&D promised. I just don't see Dany ruling in the end. Drogon is Lightbringer, the metaphorical Nissa.Nissa already happens.
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Post by belle on May 27, 2017 9:01:46 GMT -5
i don't think dany is going to get pregnant by boatsex. if she got pregnant then, then she couldn't fight in the battles of season 8. i think its much MUCH more likely that she'll get pregnant near the end of season 8 and then the episode after that will have a little bit of a time jump and just show her with her bb. something like her finding out she's pregnant in 8x05 and then we see her with her baby in 8x06. Not having watched the season I can't say for sure, obviously. But given what we know I'm pretty sure it'll happen during boatsex and the time-jump will happen early next season. Maybe second or third episode. i mean we'll have to wait and see. but i just doubt that D&D would give her the responsibility of a baby before she's defeated the night's king and WW
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Post by moiaf on May 27, 2017 9:09:16 GMT -5
Not having watched the season I can't say for sure, obviously. But given what we know I'm pretty sure it'll happen during boatsex and the time-jump will happen early next season. Maybe second or third episode. i mean we'll have to wait and see. but i just doubt that D&D would give her the responsibility of a baby before she's defeated the night's king and WW Well, it's not like she won't have people to care for the baby while she fights. Moms leave infants all the time in the care of others in order to go back to work. I mean, I use to think the baby would be born at the end of the series but that would mean that the war against the Others will only last nine months to a year. That seems like an awfuly short time to fight the coming apocalypse when the war of Five Kings lasted four years. That's why I'm thinking we get a time jump earlier in the last season, showing the passage of time and how rough conditions have gotten. Who knows of course but the last Long Night lasted 20 years.
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Post by belle on May 27, 2017 9:15:36 GMT -5
i mean we'll have to wait and see. but i just doubt that D&D would give her the responsibility of a baby before she's defeated the night's king and WW Well, it's not like she won't have people to care for the baby while she fights. Moms leave infants all the time in the care of others in order to go back to work. I mean, I use to think the baby would be born at the end of the series but that would mean that the war against the Others will only last nine months to a year. That seems like an awfuly short time to fight the coming apocalypse when the war of Five Kings lasted four years. That's why I'm thinking we get a time jump earlier in the last season, showing the passage of time and how rough conditions have gotten. Who knows of course but the last Long Night lasted 20 years. thats the thing..... ~conveniently~... i just dont think dany's going to get pregnant after the war is over. i'm not sure of what kind of time jumps there will be or if there will be any at all. but since i''m now leaning on dany surviving the series. i think her having a baby is going to be an epilogue type of deal.
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