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Post by Basil on Apr 22, 2017 18:20:06 GMT -5
anyone watching 13 Reasons Why?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 18:24:10 GMT -5
anyone watching 13 Reasons Why? I'm still on episode 2. I'll bingewatch a couple of episodes tomorrow tho.
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Post by katjushka on Apr 22, 2017 23:19:06 GMT -5
anyone watching 13 Reasons Why? Yeah I binged it when it came out
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Post by Basil on Apr 23, 2017 16:21:29 GMT -5
I finished 13 Reasons Why, and I am very conflicted. Here are some of my thoughts on the show, especially in regard to the controversy that the show glorifies suicide. First of all, suicide, bullying and depression are very difficult topics to talk about, so if I said something that offended anyone, I apologize. I don't claim that my opinion on this show is correct, I'm just trying to write down how it made me feel and what I got from it. And the message I got from it was questionable, to say the least.
I do believe that to a certain extent, this show romanticizes suicide, this I think cannot be denied. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dangerous', but I don't think it's completely harmless either. The messages it sends to young people are contraproductive, I feel like.
In a weird way, the show portrayed suicide almost as a noble thing, in that by killing herself, Hannah taught everyone who mistreated her in life a valuable lesson. Suicide is not revenge. I think this show sets a horrendous example of someone taking their own life to inflict damage on the living. And maybe that is not the message the show was trying to convey. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not, but it is what a lot of people, especially young people, will get from it. Therefore, no, I don't think it's completely harmless. I think it could be potentially damaging.
The show never really questions the distribution of guilt. The "bullies" question it, but the show portrays them as wrong. Hannah is dead. You killed her, we all killed her. The show glorifies this, she killed herself because of us. She was not responsible for her own actions, we are. What is the message here, that if a person in your life commits suicide, it would be partially your fault if at any point in their life you were mean to them? I understand that Hannah was trying to tell her story, to explain what led her to that point. But she was also assigning blame, the tapes were there to put an immense amount of guilt on a bunch of young people, a guilt they will carry with them forever, something that arguably no one of them deserves, except Bryce. Something that might drive a fragile person into suicide, which, ultimately, it did with Alex.
Hannah knew exactly the source of all her problems. She knew that no one truly hated her, and that no one was targeting her with the sole purpose to ruin her life, that a lot of the shitty things that happened to her was just people being people and making mistakes. She was self-aware enough to record her entire story. I would think that alone would have some therapeutic effect on her and help her deal with things, especially considering how great, loving and supportive her parents were. But it didn't, at all. Which makes her suicide appear as a deliberate way to exact revenge on the poeple who wronged her. Again, I'm sure this is not what the writers intended, but it is how some people might interpret it.
As a show, it was great. It had some amazing acting and writing, an engaging storyline and interesting characters. It made me fall in love with Hannah and Clay, it made me laugh and it broke my heart. But it's not without its issues and I think that in a lot of ways, it backfired and conveyed some contraproductive messages in regard to all the difficult topics that it touched upon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 19:00:57 GMT -5
I'm absolutely loving 13 Reasons Why so far. If "love" is even the appropriate word for a show with such a heavy subject matter. I'm on episode 9.
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Post by Diablotion on May 25, 2017 11:08:11 GMT -5
I finished 13 Reasons Why, and I am very conflicted. Here are some of my thoughts on the show, especially in regard to the controversy that the show glorifies suicide. First of all, suicide, bullying and depression are very difficult topics to talk about, so if I said something that offended anyone, I apologize. I don't claim that my opinion on this show is correct, I'm just trying to write down how it made me feel and what I got from it. And the message I got from it was questionable, to say the least.
I do believe that to a certain extent, this show romanticizes suicide, this I think cannot be denied. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dangerous', but I don't think it's completely harmless either. The messages it sends to young people are contraproductive, I feel like.
In a weird way, the show portrayed suicide almost as a noble thing, in that by killing herself, Hannah taught everyone who mistreated her in life a valuable lesson. Suicide is not revenge. I think this show sets a horrendous example of someone taking their own life to inflict damage on the living. And maybe that is not the message the show was trying to convey. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not, but it is what a lot of people, especially young people, will get from it. Therefore, no, I don't think it's completely harmless. I think it could be potentially damaging.
The show never really questions the distribution of guilt. The "bullies" question it, but the show portrays them as wrong. Hannah is dead. You killed her, we all killed her. The show glorifies this, she killed herself because of us. She was not responsible for her own actions, we are. What is the message here, that if a person in your life commits suicide, it would be partially your fault if at any point in their life you were mean to them? I understand that Hannah was trying to tell her story, to explain what led her to that point. But she was also assigning blame, the tapes were there to put an immense amount of guilt on a bunch of young people, a guilt they will carry with them forever, something that arguably no one of them deserves, except Bryce. Something that might drive a fragile person into suicide, which, ultimately, it did with Alex.
Hannah knew exactly the source of all her problems. She knew that no one truly hated her, and that no one was targeting her with the sole purpose to ruin her life, that a lot of the shitty things that happened to her was just people being people and making mistakes. She was self-aware enough to record her entire story. I would think that alone would have some therapeutic effect on her and help her deal with things, especially considering how great, loving and supportive her parents were. But it didn't, at all. Which makes her suicide appear as a deliberate way to exact revenge on the poeple who wronged her. Again, I'm sure this is not what the writers intended, but it is how some people might interpret it.
As a show, it was great. It had some amazing acting and writing, an engaging storyline and interesting characters. It made me fall in love with Hannah and Clay, it made me laugh and it broke my heart. But it's not without its issues and I think that in a lot of ways, it backfired and conveyed some contraproductive messages in regard to all the difficult topics that it touched upon. I just finished the show today and perhaps I can weigh in on the conversation.. even if a little late. First of all, I loved the show. I feel like I've never been so anxious and desperate watching a show before(mostly because Clay was a frustrating mess to watch ). It was heartbreaking and tougher than I expected.. and yes it has major flaws. Spoilers ahead. You're right, this is a very controversial topic and the writers intake on it has been curious, to say the least. Are they glorifying suicide? I think so. Suicides at a young age are always very weird and feel a bit rushed... and very unnecessary. I don't want to say that "it's a cowardly thing to do", but Sherlock says it pretty brilliantly.
"Taking your own life. Interesting expression, taking it from who? Once it's over, it's not you who'll miss it. Your own death is something that happens to everyone else. Your life is not your own, keep your hands off it." - Sherlock
Couldn't agree more with a fictional character.
Back to the topic.
They did show the effects of the suicide on the community and Hannah's parents got a lot of screen time. Also Hannah's death scene was really really really unpleasant for me and I'd compare it to some of the stuff we see on GoT. But still I got the same feeling that you did, it did feel like it was glorifying it and especially Hannah's actions.
Hannah was a very complex character and definitely had major flaws. She continued the vicious cycle and decided to ruin everyone else's life for good as well. Bryce's life deserved to be ruined, but like you said, the others perhaps didn't. Alex killed himself because of this and Tyler's going to do something horrible in S2. That I'm sure of. Hannah did a really shitty thing to Clay. Why the hell did she and everyone else "hype" his role in this? Tony saying "You killed her" and Zach threatening to "tell everyone what Clay did". Oh fuck off, poor writing, everyone knows that he didn't do anything wrong. Clay was absolutely shattered and then you tell him. "Yeah nah, you were alright." Great fucking job.
Some very true points there as well. She wasn't systematically bullied or targeted. Just separate shitty events. The victim blaming from mr Porter was also quite heartbreaking. I didn't really think much in the first few episodes. "It doesn't seem so bad.." and then Bryce raped her.
If the rumors of S2 are true, about Tyler becoming a school shooter, God help me that's going to be horrible. I have to give them credit for daring to tackle such massive issues.
Yeah, it was one of the saddest series I have ever watched. The moment when Clay listens to his tape and it starts with "Helmet", I was fighting back the tears.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 3, 2017 12:04:45 GMT -5
I finished 13 Reasons Why, and I am very conflicted. Here are some of my thoughts on the show, especially in regard to the controversy that the show glorifies suicide. First of all, suicide, bullying and depression are very difficult topics to talk about, so if I said something that offended anyone, I apologize. I don't claim that my opinion on this show is correct, I'm just trying to write down how it made me feel and what I got from it. And the message I got from it was questionable, to say the least.
I do believe that to a certain extent, this show romanticizes suicide, this I think cannot be denied. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dangerous', but I don't think it's completely harmless either. The messages it sends to young people are contraproductive, I feel like.
In a weird way, the show portrayed suicide almost as a noble thing, in that by killing herself, Hannah taught everyone who mistreated her in life a valuable lesson. Suicide is not revenge. I think this show sets a horrendous example of someone taking their own life to inflict damage on the living. And maybe that is not the message the show was trying to convey. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not, but it is what a lot of people, especially young people, will get from it. Therefore, no, I don't think it's completely harmless. I think it could be potentially damaging.
The show never really questions the distribution of guilt. The "bullies" question it, but the show portrays them as wrong. Hannah is dead. You killed her, we all killed her. The show glorifies this, she killed herself because of us. She was not responsible for her own actions, we are. What is the message here, that if a person in your life commits suicide, it would be partially your fault if at any point in their life you were mean to them? I understand that Hannah was trying to tell her story, to explain what led her to that point. But she was also assigning blame, the tapes were there to put an immense amount of guilt on a bunch of young people, a guilt they will carry with them forever, something that arguably no one of them deserves, except Bryce. Something that might drive a fragile person into suicide, which, ultimately, it did with Alex.
Hannah knew exactly the source of all her problems. She knew that no one truly hated her, and that no one was targeting her with the sole purpose to ruin her life, that a lot of the shitty things that happened to her was just people being people and making mistakes. She was self-aware enough to record her entire story. I would think that alone would have some therapeutic effect on her and help her deal with things, especially considering how great, loving and supportive her parents were. But it didn't, at all. Which makes her suicide appear as a deliberate way to exact revenge on the poeple who wronged her. Again, I'm sure this is not what the writers intended, but it is how some people might interpret it.
As a show, it was great. It had some amazing acting and writing, an engaging storyline and interesting characters. It made me fall in love with Hannah and Clay, it made me laugh and it broke my heart. But it's not without its issues and I think that in a lot of ways, it backfired and conveyed some contraproductive messages in regard to all the difficult topics that it touched upon. I finished 13 Reasons Why, and I am very conflicted. Here are some of my thoughts on the show, especially in regard to the controversy that the show glorifies suicide. First of all, suicide, bullying and depression are very difficult topics to talk about, so if I said something that offended anyone, I apologize. I don't claim that my opinion on this show is correct, I'm just trying to write down how it made me feel and what I got from it. And the message I got from it was questionable, to say the least.
I do believe that to a certain extent, this show romanticizes suicide, this I think cannot be denied. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dangerous', but I don't think it's completely harmless either. The messages it sends to young people are contraproductive, I feel like.
In a weird way, the show portrayed suicide almost as a noble thing, in that by killing herself, Hannah taught everyone who mistreated her in life a valuable lesson. Suicide is not revenge. I think this show sets a horrendous example of someone taking their own life to inflict damage on the living. And maybe that is not the message the show was trying to convey. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not, but it is what a lot of people, especially young people, will get from it. Therefore, no, I don't think it's completely harmless. I think it could be potentially damaging.
The show never really questions the distribution of guilt. The "bullies" question it, but the show portrays them as wrong. Hannah is dead. You killed her, we all killed her. The show glorifies this, she killed herself because of us. She was not responsible for her own actions, we are. What is the message here, that if a person in your life commits suicide, it would be partially your fault if at any point in their life you were mean to them? I understand that Hannah was trying to tell her story, to explain what led her to that point. But she was also assigning blame, the tapes were there to put an immense amount of guilt on a bunch of young people, a guilt they will carry with them forever, something that arguably no one of them deserves, except Bryce. Something that might drive a fragile person into suicide, which, ultimately, it did with Alex.
Hannah knew exactly the source of all her problems. She knew that no one truly hated her, and that no one was targeting her with the sole purpose to ruin her life, that a lot of the shitty things that happened to her was just people being people and making mistakes. She was self-aware enough to record her entire story. I would think that alone would have some therapeutic effect on her and help her deal with things, especially considering how great, loving and supportive her parents were. But it didn't, at all. Which makes her suicide appear as a deliberate way to exact revenge on the poeple who wronged her. Again, I'm sure this is not what the writers intended, but it is how some people might interpret it.
As a show, it was great. It had some amazing acting and writing, an engaging storyline and interesting characters. It made me fall in love with Hannah and Clay, it made me laugh and it broke my heart. But it's not without its issues and I think that in a lot of ways, it backfired and conveyed some contraproductive messages in regard to all the difficult topics that it touched upon. I just finished the show today and perhaps I can weigh in on the conversation.. even if a little late. First of all, I loved the show. I feel like I've never been so anxious and desperate watching a show before(mostly because Clay was a frustrating mess to watch ). It was heartbreaking and tougher than I expected.. and yes it has major flaws. Spoilers ahead. You're right, this is a very controversial topic and the writers intake on it has been curious, to say the least. Are they glorifying suicide? I think so. Suicides at a young age are always very weird and feel a bit rushed... and very unnecessary. I don't want to say that "it's a cowardly thing to do", but Sherlock says it pretty brilliantly.
"Taking your own life. Interesting expression, taking it from who? Once it's over, it's not you who'll miss it. Your own death is something that happens to everyone else. Your life is not your own, keep your hands off it." - Sherlock
Couldn't agree more with a fictional character.
Back to the topic.
They did show the effects of the suicide on the community and Hannah's parents got a lot of screen time. Also Hannah's death scene was really really really unpleasant for me and I'd compare it to some of the stuff we see on GoT. But still I got the same feeling that you did, it did feel like it was glorifying it and especially Hannah's actions.
Hannah was a very complex character and definitely had major flaws. She continued the vicious cycle and decided to ruin everyone else's life for good as well. Bryce's life deserved to be ruined, but like you said, the others perhaps didn't. Alex killed himself because of this and Tyler's going to do something horrible in S2. That I'm sure of. Hannah did a really shitty thing to Clay. Why the hell did she and everyone else "hype" his role in this? Tony saying "You killed her" and Zach threatening to "tell everyone what Clay did". Oh fuck off, poor writing, everyone knows that he didn't do anything wrong. Clay was absolutely shattered and then you tell him. "Yeah nah, you were alright." Great fucking job.
Some very true points there as well. She wasn't systematically bullied or targeted. Just separate shitty events. The victim blaming from mr Porter was also quite heartbreaking. I didn't really think much in the first few episodes. "It doesn't seem so bad.." and then Bryce raped her.
If the rumors of S2 are true, about Tyler becoming a school shooter, God help me that's going to be horrible. I have to give them credit for daring to tackle such massive issues.
Yeah, it was one of the saddest series I have ever watched. The moment when Clay listens to his tape and it starts with "Helmet", I was fighting back the tears. Finally got around to watching the series after I binged it last night and this morning. It is an incredibly depressing series but of course so is the topic of suicide, especially of a teenager. I had read some of the commentary about it seeming to romantic suicide but I have to be honest, I did not get the feeling from it. What I do think it did was romantics revenge. Hannah could have done what she did while still alive, maybe not everyone would have listen but some for sure would have. Her death to me felt senseless right up to the rape but by then she was already contemplating killing herself. As one of you mentioned, the other thing that sort of bothered me was how all the "criminals" were treated as equals. Yes, most of them behaved badly but what they did was not that much different to what most teenagers do and what most teenagers face in one form or another. Not to say that, that is right of course but I think it illustrates the specific problems that Hannah had. She was equipped to deal with what she had to deal with and she made some poor decisions on her own but I'm not sure how you fix that. There were only four real criminals, Justine for allowing Bruce to rape Jessica. Bryce for raping Jessica and Hannah. Tyler for stocking Hannah and Sheri for the Stop sign. The other people in the tapes where just assholes and I don't get the whole thing with having Clay as part of the tapes. Like someone said it seem like a cheap device to keep us in suspense. Which a deflated payoff. Having said all that I enjoyed the series tremendously, as is evident by my binge-waching it in less than a day. I though the acting and story structure was very good, although, Clay could be completely exasperating. Also, it was completely obvious that Tony was the one with the extra set of tapes so there was no mystery there.
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Post by Diablotion on Jul 4, 2017 14:23:00 GMT -5
I finished 13 Reasons Why, and I am very conflicted. Here are some of my thoughts on the show, especially in regard to the controversy that the show glorifies suicide. First of all, suicide, bullying and depression are very difficult topics to talk about, so if I said something that offended anyone, I apologize. I don't claim that my opinion on this show is correct, I'm just trying to write down how it made me feel and what I got from it. And the message I got from it was questionable, to say the least.
I do believe that to a certain extent, this show romanticizes suicide, this I think cannot be denied. I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'dangerous', but I don't think it's completely harmless either. The messages it sends to young people are contraproductive, I feel like.
In a weird way, the show portrayed suicide almost as a noble thing, in that by killing herself, Hannah taught everyone who mistreated her in life a valuable lesson. Suicide is not revenge. I think this show sets a horrendous example of someone taking their own life to inflict damage on the living. And maybe that is not the message the show was trying to convey. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not, but it is what a lot of people, especially young people, will get from it. Therefore, no, I don't think it's completely harmless. I think it could be potentially damaging.
The show never really questions the distribution of guilt. The "bullies" question it, but the show portrays them as wrong. Hannah is dead. You killed her, we all killed her. The show glorifies this, she killed herself because of us. She was not responsible for her own actions, we are. What is the message here, that if a person in your life commits suicide, it would be partially your fault if at any point in their life you were mean to them? I understand that Hannah was trying to tell her story, to explain what led her to that point. But she was also assigning blame, the tapes were there to put an immense amount of guilt on a bunch of young people, a guilt they will carry with them forever, something that arguably no one of them deserves, except Bryce. Something that might drive a fragile person into suicide, which, ultimately, it did with Alex.
Hannah knew exactly the source of all her problems. She knew that no one truly hated her, and that no one was targeting her with the sole purpose to ruin her life, that a lot of the shitty things that happened to her was just people being people and making mistakes. She was self-aware enough to record her entire story. I would think that alone would have some therapeutic effect on her and help her deal with things, especially considering how great, loving and supportive her parents were. But it didn't, at all. Which makes her suicide appear as a deliberate way to exact revenge on the poeple who wronged her. Again, I'm sure this is not what the writers intended, but it is how some people might interpret it.
As a show, it was great. It had some amazing acting and writing, an engaging storyline and interesting characters. It made me fall in love with Hannah and Clay, it made me laugh and it broke my heart. But it's not without its issues and I think that in a lot of ways, it backfired and conveyed some contraproductive messages in regard to all the difficult topics that it touched upon. I just finished the show today and perhaps I can weigh in on the conversation.. even if a little late. First of all, I loved the show. I feel like I've never been so anxious and desperate watching a show before(mostly because Clay was a frustrating mess to watch ). It was heartbreaking and tougher than I expected.. and yes it has major flaws. Spoilers ahead. You're right, this is a very controversial topic and the writers intake on it has been curious, to say the least. Are they glorifying suicide? I think so. Suicides at a young age are always very weird and feel a bit rushed... and very unnecessary. I don't want to say that "it's a cowardly thing to do", but Sherlock says it pretty brilliantly.
"Taking your own life. Interesting expression, taking it from who? Once it's over, it's not you who'll miss it. Your own death is something that happens to everyone else. Your life is not your own, keep your hands off it." - Sherlock
Couldn't agree more with a fictional character.
Back to the topic.
They did show the effects of the suicide on the community and Hannah's parents got a lot of screen time. Also Hannah's death scene was really really really unpleasant for me and I'd compare it to some of the stuff we see on GoT. But still I got the same feeling that you did, it did feel like it was glorifying it and especially Hannah's actions.
Hannah was a very complex character and definitely had major flaws. She continued the vicious cycle and decided to ruin everyone else's life for good as well. Bryce's life deserved to be ruined, but like you said, the others perhaps didn't. Alex killed himself because of this and Tyler's going to do something horrible in S2. That I'm sure of. Hannah did a really shitty thing to Clay. Why the hell did she and everyone else "hype" his role in this? Tony saying "You killed her" and Zach threatening to "tell everyone what Clay did". Oh fuck off, poor writing, everyone knows that he didn't do anything wrong. Clay was absolutely shattered and then you tell him. "Yeah nah, you were alright." Great fucking job.
Some very true points there as well. She wasn't systematically bullied or targeted. Just separate shitty events. The victim blaming from mr Porter was also quite heartbreaking. I didn't really think much in the first few episodes. "It doesn't seem so bad.." and then Bryce raped her.
If the rumors of S2 are true, about Tyler becoming a school shooter, God help me that's going to be horrible. I have to give them credit for daring to tackle such massive issues.
Yeah, it was one of the saddest series I have ever watched. The moment when Clay listens to his tape and it starts with "Helmet", I was fighting back the tears. Finally got around to watching the series after I binged it last night and this morning. It is an incredibly depressing series but of course so is the topic of suicide, especially of a teenager. I had read some of the commentary about it seeming to romantic suicide but I have to be honest, I did not get the feeling from it. What I do think it did was romantics revenge. Hannah could have done what she did while still alive, maybe not everyone would have listen but some for sure would have. Her death to me felt senseless right up to the rape but by then she was already contemplating killing herself. As one of you mentioned, the other thing that sort of bothered me was how all the "criminals" were treated as equals. Yes, most of them behaved badly but what they did was not that much different to what most teenagers do and what most teenagers face in one form or another. Not to say that, that is right of course but I think it illustrates the specific problems that Hannah had. She was equipped to deal with what she had to deal with and she made some poor decisions on her own but I'm not sure how you fix that. There were only four real criminals, Justine for allowing Bruce to rape Jessica. Bryce for raping Jessica and Hannah. Tyler for stocking Hannah and Sheri for the Stop sign. The other people in the tapes where just assholes and I don't get the whole thing with having Clay as part of the tapes. Like someone said it seem like a cheap device to keep us in suspense. Which a deflated payoff.
Having said all that I enjoyed the series tremendously, as is evident by my binge-waching it in less than a day. I though the acting and story structure was very good, although, Clay could be completely exasperating. Also, it was completely obvious that Tony was the one with the extra set of tapes so there was no mystery there. Agreed. Hannah was so annoying when she always expected everyone to read her mind. Like mr. Porter for example. He did try to help, but Hannah didn't want to volunteer any information. Yes, he should have done more, but he was not guilty of her suicide.
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 4, 2017 16:49:38 GMT -5
Finally got around to watching the series after I binged it last night and this morning. It is an incredibly depressing series but of course so is the topic of suicide, especially of a teenager. I had read some of the commentary about it seeming to romantic suicide but I have to be honest, I did not get the feeling from it. What I do think it did was romantics revenge. Hannah could have done what she did while still alive, maybe not everyone would have listen but some for sure would have. Her death to me felt senseless right up to the rape but by then she was already contemplating killing herself. As one of you mentioned, the other thing that sort of bothered me was how all the "criminals" were treated as equals. Yes, most of them behaved badly but what they did was not that much different to what most teenagers do and what most teenagers face in one form or another. Not to say that, that is right of course but I think it illustrates the specific problems that Hannah had. She was equipped to deal with what she had to deal with and she made some poor decisions on her own but I'm not sure how you fix that. There were only four real criminals, Justine for allowing Bruce to rape Jessica. Bryce for raping Jessica and Hannah. Tyler for stocking Hannah and Sheri for the Stop sign. The other people in the tapes where just assholes and I don't get the whole thing with having Clay as part of the tapes. Like someone said it seem like a cheap device to keep us in suspense. Which a deflated payoff.
Having said all that I enjoyed the series tremendously, as is evident by my binge-waching it in less than a day. I though the acting and story structure was very good, although, Clay could be completely exasperating. Also, it was completely obvious that Tony was the one with the extra set of tapes so there was no mystery there. Agreed. Hannah was so annoying when she always expected everyone to read her mind. Like mr. Porter for example. He did try to help, but Hannah didn't want to volunteer any information. Yes, he should have done more, but he was not guilty of her suicide. While Hannah is guilty on blaming everyone for her problems and pretty much other cases, especially she was so set on punishing her bullies with the tape instead of punishing her rapist who Hannah didn't tell Mr. Porter and silencing Jessica's rape, i like that the show didn't make Hannah straight-up flawless or guiltless, but she has valid reasons why she behave like this. Given the snowball effect Hannah went through, this causes Hannah to be mentally unstable and arguably ill. She is unable to make good judgement and decisions when it comes to dealing with problems that has been thrown on her and definitely has trust issues. Like a lot of people criticized Hannah for rejecting Jack's help and unintentionally humiliated him, but due to all the people who she trusts and they throw her away like a hot potato, would you blame her? Also, the stigma when a person expects others to notice their problems and read their mind is extremely common in most people, especially with mentally ill people. Their mindset trap in a whirlwind of doubts and hesitation is what prevents them from making proper decisions and develop black and white insanity, and Hannah is experiencing all of this.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 5, 2017 9:56:36 GMT -5
Agreed. Hannah was so annoying when she always expected everyone to read her mind. Like mr. Porter for example. He did try to help, but Hannah didn't want to volunteer any information. Yes, he should have done more, but he was not guilty of her suicide. While Hannah is guilty on blaming everyone for her problems and pretty much other cases, especially she was so set on punishing her bullies with the tape instead of punishing her rapist who Hannah didn't tell Mr. Porter and silencing Jessica's rape, i like that the show didn't make Hannah straight-up flawless or guiltless, but she has valid reasons why she behave like this. Given the snowball effect Hannah went through, this causes Hannah to be mentally unstable and arguably ill. She is unable to make good judgement and decisions when it comes to dealing with problems that has been thrown on her and definitely has trust issues. Like a lot of people criticized Hannah for rejecting Jack's help and unintentionally humiliated him, but due to all the people who she trusts and they throw her away like a hot potato, would you blame her? Also, the stigma when a person expects others to notice their problems and read their mind is extremely common in most people, especially with mentally ill people. Their mindset trap in a whirlwind of doubts and hesitation is what prevents them from making proper decisions and develop black and white insanity, and Hannah is experiencing all of this. Yeah, I think Hannah was clearly emotionally troubled and didn't have the adequate tools to deal with what she was going through. She was also very good at pretending with her family that she was okay. She cried for help but not to the people who could help her the most. I do think she was unfair to Mr. Porter, he could have done more in communicating with her parents after his discussion with her. However, he really couldn't do anything for Hannah if she was unwilling to talk. You can't just punish people without proof or witnesses. And I think this shows where Hannah had lost touch with reality. I didn't realize they were going to do a second season, I'm curious how that is going to go.
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 5, 2017 21:18:32 GMT -5
Hannah had some very problematic moments but I'll defend her on Mr. Porter. He did the opposite of what a good therapist should do. He passive aggressively shot down her dreams when she talked about colleges. He could've worded that differently, and he also victim blamed and I never felt like she ever had his full attention. He failed as a counselor, IMO. It's not about reading minds. He wasn't hearing her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 22:10:54 GMT -5
^You guys should start a thread for that show.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 6, 2017 8:21:23 GMT -5
Hannah had some very problematic moments but I'll defend her on Mr. Porter. He did the opposite of what a good therapist should do. He passive aggressively shot down her dreams when she talked about colleges. He could've worded that differently, and he also victim blamed and I never felt like she ever had his full attention. He failed as a counselor, IMO. It's not about reading minds. He wasn't hearing her. School guidance counselors are a certain breed because when I was in high school and I spoke to my counselor about collage he pretty much said the same thing to me, that I should have more realistic goals. And he was right. I was a good student but I wasn't great, and I ended going to a good school that was more suited for me. What I'm saying is that, goal / expectation is kind of what they do. I don't think there was anything abnormal about that.
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 6, 2017 10:19:12 GMT -5
Hannah had some very problematic moments but I'll defend her on Mr. Porter. He did the opposite of what a good therapist should do. He passive aggressively shot down her dreams when she talked about colleges. He could've worded that differently, and he also victim blamed and I never felt like she ever had his full attention. He failed as a counselor, IMO. It's not about reading minds. He wasn't hearing her. School guidance counselors are a certain breed because when I was in high school and I spoke to my counselor about collage he pretty much said the same thing to me, that I should have more realistic goals. And he was right. I was a good student but I wasn't great, and I ended going to a good school that was more suited for me. What I'm saying is that, goal / expectation is kind of what they do. I don't think there was anything abnormal about that. For me it was the way he worded it. How he essentially told her "no" without encouraging her to try harder. He was right when he said NYU was highly competitive, but then he should've encouraged her to work hard in certain areas while also applying to other schools as it's always good to have more than one. It just made him seem disinterested to me. Like "nope, sorry. Next."
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 6, 2017 13:32:35 GMT -5
Hannah had some very problematic moments but I'll defend her on Mr. Porter. He did the opposite of what a good therapist should do. He passive aggressively shot down her dreams when she talked about colleges. He could've worded that differently, and he also victim blamed and I never felt like she ever had his full attention. He failed as a counselor, IMO. It's not about reading minds. He wasn't hearing her. You sum up my thoughts toward Mr. Porter. As much we can sympathize Mr. Porter for his inability to help people and see through their problems (a lot of people can be in this situation where dealing to help others is very difficult), i cannot tolerated him for victim blaming Hannah and Tyler for bringing the problems onto them and overreacting over it. He doesn't bring himself to try understand them and instead act like he has the rights to tell them what they should do, gesturing the "get over it" statements. It's really no wonder Hannah decided not tell him about her issues. Mr. Porter has already making judgments before she gets to fully explain it to him and if she tries to, Mr. Porter would be spilling more BS and he has broken Hannah's trust towards him.
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