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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 18, 2017 20:22:19 GMT -5
Sansa has the political training from her experiences in King's Landing, Jon the military experience. Both need the other to complete their education and become the rulers they are capable of being. Part of the problem is they are two people still growing into their positions. After everything she has been through, Sansa needs to learn the compassion side of power, something never taught in King's Landing. Jon needs to realize that not everyone is honorable, something Ned never taught his boys.
It will be interesting this week to see how they act together in the next meeting. I would hope this time he discusses with Sansa what he intends to do before hand to help them show a unite front.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 22:16:50 GMT -5
Sansa has the political training from her experiences in King's Landing, Jon the military experience. Both need the other to complete their education and become the rulers they are capable of being. Part of the problem is they are two people still growing into their positions. After everything she has been through, Sansa needs to learn the compassion side of power, something never taught in King's Landing. Jon needs to realize that not everyone is honorable, something Ned never taught his boys. It will be interesting this week to see how they act together in the next meeting. I would hope this time he discusses with Sansa what he intends to do before hand to help them show a unite front. Jon was in the NW, he knows that all too well.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 6:46:55 GMT -5
I said elsewhere: I really adore Sansa, but – and since everything that comes before ‘but’ is horseshit in the words of her father – one thing I wished LF would teach her is timing. Her reasoning is often sound. Her timing STINKS! Especially when LF, who tried to sow the rift between her and Jon last season, is looking on. The time to disagree with your brother/cousin-king is not during meetings with the Northern lords in the great hall, but on the walls of Winterfell in private. Doing otherwise makes her look petulant when he shoots her down, rather like the ignorant girl she once was rather than the insightful woman she has become. Also, she’d be wiser to present a united front with Jon in front of LF, if she wanted to play it smart, regardless of her personal feelings. The advice clearly found support among the Northern lords, but damn woman, timing is everything. The arrival of those Arryn soldiers should have taught her that. Oh well, she still clearly has some learning to do. And wearing her hair like Cersei's isn't going to make her anything like Cersei. To be fair to Sansa, last season during the war meetings she didn't say a word and only shared her ideas with Jon once everyone else had left, but even then Jon didn't heed her advice. And in the end, she was right. If it wasn't for Sansa, Jon would be dead and the Boltons still in power. Although I disagree with stripping the Umbers and Karstarks of their homes, I think she made the right move speaking out like that. She was trying to pressure Jon into actually listening to her, but still he didn't. If in future episodes Sansa gets the impression that Jon is constantly ignoring her advice, then I'd say there's plenty reason for her to think that way. And I made that point about her hair in the other thread because Sophie said it in an interview. Otherwise I'd think it's just a crazy fan-theory.
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Post by Envie on Jul 19, 2017 9:49:54 GMT -5
To be fair to Sansa, last season during the war meetings she didn't say a word and only shared her ideas with Jon once everyone else had left, but even then Jon didn't heed her advice. And in the end, she was right. I think this is a fair counter-argument and worth remembering in Sansa's defense. Jon hasn't really taken her advice but then again she's not taking the seriousness of the Night King into account either. She, like most people who haven't seen them yet thinks the wall is going to stop them. So both of them have experiences the other one can't yet really comprehend fully. It's a great opposition and makes the storyline interesting.
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Post by izzue on Jul 23, 2017 9:23:55 GMT -5
I thought I'd create a place for us to discuss the Winterfell storyline in more depth every week. I don't want to clog up the general discussion threads with this since I know that not everyone is as interested in it as I am. I want everyone to be able to read and post here so no spoilers please. Just focus on the episodes that we have seen so far. This is a great thread, @kairos ! Thank you! I can't believe I'm just now finding it. I, too, am relieved to see that at the core of it Jon and Sansa present a solid team. Loved their conversation after the meeting - frank, honest, totally upfront about where they're coming from, replete with sibling squabbling, which I think is overdue. As children they were not close, and each would naturally have had feelings about the other which never got expressed. They need to be that way with each other, but not in front of the northern lords. It's so clear that they both have gained invaluable experience and insight, yet in different aspects of 'the game'. During the meeting, it was as if Jon was confronted with the perfect testing ground to establish himself as a new king, and he passed the test with flying colors, demonstrating wisdom and diplomacy. Sansa's response reminded me a bit of the defiant, rebellious child, which she definitely isn't, but I think after all that time she spent horribly at the mercy of Cersei, Joff, and Ramsey, she's ready to put what she thinks right out there, loud and clear. She'll learn moderation, I think, and Jon - please, for the love of the old gods and the new - needs to learn to listen to her. He didn't, with Ramsey, and he fell entirely into his trap. One of the things that I think is so important in this relationship is, again, that they were not close as children. They only started really bonding in their reunion at the Wall, and so they are still getting to know each other. I love Envie 's comparison above of Sansa to Catelyn. And Jon is SO much Ned. They both need to be smarter - than Ned and than Catelyn.
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