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Post by moiaf on Aug 13, 2017 22:14:41 GMT -5
I don't think there's going to be much traction in this crowd for sympathy to Rhaegar. I don't think we're going to know if what he did was for stupid love or because he truly believed in a prophecy. But as Davos said to Jon: "What does it matter? You go on..."
Jon Snow was born out of that, whatever it was, and he's now a legitimate heir to the throne. Not that that matters either. And that, I think, is the whole sad irony of the whole mess. But it's not about making an heir. He had 2 already. Jon is more important than that. Him and Dany are Westeros' only shot at defeating the WW. I understand how important Jon is but I have a really hard time believing that what Rhaegar did would be justified given what we have been told about prophecies both in the books and by GRRM about people who try to fulfill and avoid prophecies.
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Post by Envie on Aug 13, 2017 22:17:37 GMT -5
I love you guys, but I think I'll probably just bow out of this discussion thread. Everyone has a character that they feel strongly for and the hate they receive is too much. Rhaegar is mine. Some people are missing the point of what/why Rhaegar existed. They're aiming hate at the whole point of the story. Remember how gut wrenching it was to feel torn between two sides you loved like Tyrion watching Lannister men burning to death in front of his eyes? I love everyone in this fan group, but some people need to calm down and realize what they're saying and remember when scorn and hatred like that was aimed at THEIR favorite character (ie. Dany). Put it in perspective a bit my friends. You're losing the forest for the trees here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 22:17:45 GMT -5
But it's not about making an heir. He had 2 already. Jon is more important than that. Him and Dany are Westeros' only shot at defeating the WW. I understand how important Jon is but I have a really hard time believing that what Rhaegar did would be justified given what we have been told about prophecies both in the books and by GRRM about people who try to fulfill and avoid prophecies. Oh he fucked up royally. No doubt about it. He could have handled things much better. Especially Aerys. I guess the question is does the ends justify the means?
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Aug 13, 2017 22:17:50 GMT -5
But he was right... No Jon= everyone fucking dies. Depends what he was thinking. He may have been right, but that does not mean everything he did was right. Martin has always loved the law of unintended consequences. Maybe he planned for Jon maybe not, maybe he thought it would be a girl. He thought his child might save the world seems or three of his children. Or something, he also thought he was the Prince. In chasing after Lyanna he accidently gave the world the the mother of Dragons. I don't think he meant to do that, but his possible savior he thought he was making seems to need a little help from the law of unintended consequences, aka Dany. It's a bit of theme with her, just ask the Dthraki and the slavers. I know what will scare her off, let's kill a bunch of kids. Ooops. Sort of this is what I'm trying to get at. I think his and his fathers action destabilized Weateros to the point where they probably won't be united the way they should in order to fight the Others.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Aug 13, 2017 22:19:40 GMT -5
I understand how important Jon is but I have a really hard time believing that what Rhaegar did would be justified given what we have been told about prophecies both in the books and by GRRM about people who try to fulfill and avoid prophecies. Oh he fucked up royally. No doubt about it. He could have handled things much better. Especially Aerys. I guess the question is does the ends justify the means? I suppose we'll find out. I think Jon's perspective on this will be very interesting.
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Post by katjushka on Aug 13, 2017 22:21:19 GMT -5
I love you guys, but I think I'll probably just bow out of this discussion thread. Everyone has a character that they feel strongly for and the hate they receive is too much. Rhaegar is mine. Some people are missing the point of what/why Rhaegar existed. They're aiming hate at the whole point of the story. Remember how gut wrenching it was to feel torn between two sides you loved like Tyrion watching Lannister men burning to death in front of his eyes? I love everyone in this fan group, but some people need to calm down and realize what they're saying and remember when scorn and hatred like that was aimed at THEIR favorite character (ie. Dany). Put it in perspective a bit my friends. You're losing the forest for the trees here. Agreed. No offense to anyone but having to actually make sure you're on the forum you think you are is not good, a lot of hate here today. Actually don't mind a bit now that I have to get to work ans miss some of the conversation.
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Post by lordcarson on Aug 13, 2017 22:23:28 GMT -5
FUCKIN LITTLEFINGER PITTING ARYA AND SANSA AGAINST EACH OTHER JUDGE BRAN WHERE U AT TO MEDIATE THIS SHIT WITH THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by Singer of Death on Aug 13, 2017 22:24:05 GMT -5
Also I'm gonna need Jaime and Cersei to break up like yesterday. Jaime finding out that his sister-girlfriend is pregnant with his child and he is to be responsible:
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stannisforking299al
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Post by stannisforking299al on Aug 13, 2017 22:24:33 GMT -5
I honestly hope we never find out. I'd prefer they leave the moral ambiguity of some characters intact. The show hasn't done too well at crafting truly ambiguous characters (aside from Varys), I'd love there to be one character whose past remains shrouded. There's something to be said about leaving some things unfold in a story like this. Melisandre I suppose in a sense, but I can't say I agree there. She's definitely more on the evil side than Varys is. She smiled watching Shireen being burnt and I think it's more the pride she takes in carrying out her god's work, or in demonstrating their power, but she is willing to use far more extreme methods. Though we know what drives Mel in nearly everything she does. He religion. It's the only thing she cares about. Varys' claims to be for the people are shaky still. He supported more than one ruler who would prove awful as a a ruler, from Aerys, Robert (kinda) and Viserys. Varys seems more an opportunist than a charitable man, but if he was an opportunist already, he likely has more than enough gold to quit, but remains in the loop. The greatest question about Mel has been answered. She's an old priestess who believes the end justify the means. We don't yet know what really drives Varys. It is likely to do with the people, though almost certainly not for the reasons he claims.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 13, 2017 22:25:01 GMT -5
I love you guys, but I think I'll probably just bow out of this discussion thread. Everyone has a character that they feel strongly for and the hate they receive is too much. Rhaegar is mine. Some people are missing the point of what/why Rhaegar existed. They're aiming hate at the whole point of the story. Remember how gut wrenching it was to feel torn between two sides you loved like Tyrion watching Lannister men burning to death in front of his eyes? I love everyone in this fan group, but some people need to calm down and realize what they're saying and remember when scorn and hatred like that was aimed at THEIR favorite character (ie. Dany). Put it in perspective a bit my friends. You're losing the forest for the trees here. I think everyone here is mature enough not to get offended by disagreements over characters. It happens, people hate my favs too and that's fine, but it's okay to discuss. And this show isn't perfect, sometimes things happen that we hate. Like no Ghost.
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Post by StarkL on Aug 13, 2017 22:25:32 GMT -5
Jon being jealous of Dany/Jorah lmao
I couldn't believe it when I saw it and yet there are people who still said that Dany seems more into him than Jon with her.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Aug 13, 2017 22:25:52 GMT -5
I wonder why Rhaegar went the annulment route instead of just going with polygamy. It's not like it hadn't been done before. However, just to play Devil's advocate, Elia couldn't have any more children, and Rhaegar needed three to fulfill the prophecy. Elia might have give him the permission to take a second wife, especially if she would be the one sitting on the throne as queen one day, as the first wife. In the books it's probably polygamy. I think.
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Post by StarkL on Aug 13, 2017 22:26:25 GMT -5
The Arya/Sansa scene was good. Arya reading Sansa like a open book.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 13, 2017 22:27:16 GMT -5
Jaime and Cersei do need to be over. Like yesterday. Brienne, bae, break that shit up.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 13, 2017 22:27:35 GMT -5
I love Cersei so I'm used to people hating my favorite lol. It's just a show ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't think you can take it personally.
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