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Post by milyagaryen on Sept 4, 2017 19:18:07 GMT -5
I don't know about this being the right place, but I've been thinking about the Prophecy of 3 and Dany, since some of them seem to apply to her and Jon. Some of them have already been named, but we have yet to know the fire lit for love, the mount ridden for love, and the treason for love. “… three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love … " The fire for light was Drogo's pyre, the fire for death the burning of the Khals. That leave the fire for love. Could that be the fire of burning the wights to rescue Jon and the others? "… three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love …" The one to bed was the Silver, Drogo's present. The one to dread is Drogon. What could be the one to love? "… three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love…” The first treason was MMD for revenge. The second treason was Meereen, where the SotH betrayed her for gold. I fear the third treason for love could be Tyrion, betraying her in favor of love of his family. Thoughts? I've also been thinking about this a lot. I did consider whether the wight hunt could be the third fire, but it seems...not significant enough compared to the other two. Although her journey to the North was definitely a turning point for both her story and relationship with Jon, so maybe? Also, I think it's notable that the other two fires are fires she lit herself, they aren't lit by the dragons, so that leads me to think the third fire should also be lit by Dany. I agree Tyrion is the strongest candidate for the treason for love. Unless it's some weird spin on it where Jon hides something from her or disobeys her to protect her. I really have no idea about the 3rd mount...the love boat maybe?
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milyagaryen
Viserion
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Post by milyagaryen on Sept 4, 2017 19:24:49 GMT -5
On another note, I highly recommend this video when you have a spare 20 minutes:
Whenever I see these recap/parallel videos it really drives home to me what a terrible brother Viserys was. Compare him to what Ned did for Lyanna or how Jon feels about Arya and even Sansa. It's just awful. I actually can't believe people seriously used to argue Jon wouldn't like Daenerys because she stood by while her brother was killed. Jon would probably kill Viserys himself if he had the chance.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Sept 4, 2017 19:25:21 GMT -5
I don't know about this being the right place, but I've been thinking about the Prophecy of 3 and Dany, since some of them seem to apply to her and Jon. Some of them have already been named, but we have yet to know the fire lit for love, the mount ridden for love, and the treason for love. “… three fires must you light … one for life and one for death and one to love … " The fire for light was Drogo's pyre, the fire for death the burning of the Khals. That leave the fire for love. Could that be the fire of burning the wights to rescue Jon and the others? "… three mounts must you ride … one to bed and one to dread and one to love …" The one to bed was the Silver, Drogo's present. The one to dread is Drogon. What could be the one to love? "… three treasons will you know … once for blood and once for gold and once for love…” The first treason was MMD for revenge. The second treason was Meereen, where the SotH betrayed her for gold. I fear the third treason for love could be Tyrion, betraying her in favor of love of his family. Thoughts? I've also been thinking about this a lot. I did consider whether the wight hunt could be the third fire, but it seems...not significant enough compared to the other two. Although her journey to the North was definitely a turning point for both her story and relationship with Jon, so maybe? Also, I think it's notable that the other two fires are fires she lit herself, they aren't lit by the dragons, so that leads me to think the third fire should also be lit by Dany. I agree Tyrion is the strongest candidate for the treason for love. Unless it's some weird spin on it where Jon hides something from her or disobeys her to protect her. I really have no idea about the 3rd mount...the love boat maybe? I thought about the boat as well, but it's a real obscure use of the word 'mount.'
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Lils
Moondancer
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Post by Lils on Sept 4, 2017 21:43:15 GMT -5
I've also been thinking about this a lot. I did consider whether the wight hunt could be the third fire, but it seems...not significant enough compared to the other two. Although her journey to the North was definitely a turning point for both her story and relationship with Jon, so maybe? Also, I think it's notable that the other two fires are fires she lit herself, they aren't lit by the dragons, so that leads me to think the third fire should also be lit by Dany. I agree Tyrion is the strongest candidate for the treason for love. Unless it's some weird spin on it where Jon hides something from her or disobeys her to protect her. I really have no idea about the 3rd mount...the love boat maybe? I thought about the boat as well, but it's a real obscure use of the word 'mount.' I wasn't sure about the betrayal for love before, but now that I think about it more and after Season 7, it is plausible that it's Tyrion. We've seen him becoming disillusioned and I wonder if his failure to plot and plan the invasion has to do with his subconscious desire to protect his family. If he feels like Dany is going against her mission and his idea what she should be doing, I could see him plot against her. Maybe not in a Cersei level way, but similar to Jorah where it is conflicted and done with good intentions.
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Post by azraelsings on Sept 5, 2017 7:11:50 GMT -5
I'm obsessed with the idea of seeing Dany in Targaryen armour next season. I've been rather annoyed that she hasn't been wearing any armour this season while flying about on Drogon, so I hope the first time we see her go ham on wights next season she comes out in Targaryen black and red, with dramatic pauldrons, over a leather dress with some dragon-scale details and a fur-lined cape. Also, it'd be great if she got some reins or something more substantial with which to hold onto Drogon - how she hasn't fallen off yet is a mystery. I'm thinking something like this in Targ colours, maybe a bit more metal plating: Also, bonus if Jon sees her and loses his mind given she's basically the dream girl he's always wanted (didn't he have thoughts about the perfect warrior woman in the books? And he looks constantly blown away by Dany any time he sees her on a dragon or hears her talking about fighting for others.). NK Jemisin is incredibly talented - I read the first one in the Inheritance trilogy and then lost track, so I'm very keen to re-read and finish that series.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Sept 5, 2017 10:05:06 GMT -5
Got into an argument today with someone who claims that the scene between J/D and R/L wasn't romantic, it was presented as creepy. They also said that cinema is open to interpretation, so obviously they aren't wrong.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Sept 5, 2017 10:10:36 GMT -5
Got into an argument today with someone who claims that the scene between J/D and R/L wasn't romantic, it was presented as creepy. They also said that cinema is open to interpretation, so obviously they aren't wrong. Well, I think there are two different issues here. What the viewer perceive and what was intended by the show? It was clearly intended to be romantic, however, there were undertones or overtones (with Bran's voice over) that, although, these two characters were in love there will be difficulties up ahead given the revelation of Jon's parentage. Having said that, it wasn't meant to be creepy at all and that's just that person's own feeling about this development.
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Post by moiaf on Sept 5, 2017 10:13:44 GMT -5
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Sept 5, 2017 11:33:23 GMT -5
Got into an argument today with someone who claims that the scene between J/D and R/L wasn't romantic, it was presented as creepy. They also said that cinema is open to interpretation, so obviously they aren't wrong. Well, I think there are two different issues here. What the viewer perceive and what was intended by the show? It was clearly intended to be romantic, however, there were undertones or overtones (with Bran's voice over) that, although, these two characters were in love there will be difficulties up ahead given the revelation of Jon's parentage. Having said that, it wasn't meant to be creepy at all and that's just that person's own feeling about this development. I've noticed that when a person doesn't want to see something romantic between these two, they don't see it. It's why we're getting those ridiculous comments about there being no chemistry between Kit and Emilia.
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Post by moiaf on Sept 5, 2017 11:42:20 GMT -5
Well, I think there are two different issues here. What the viewer perceive and what was intended by the show? It was clearly intended to be romantic, however, there were undertones or overtones (with Bran's voice over) that, although, these two characters were in love there will be difficulties up ahead given the revelation of Jon's parentage. Having said that, it wasn't meant to be creepy at all and that's just that person's own feeling about this development. I've noticed that when a person doesn't want to see something romantic between these two, they don't see it. It's why we're getting those ridiculous comments about there being no chemistry between Kit and Emilia. And that's fine, people have their preferences. You might not like the way the show developed it but you can't honestly deny that it was developed in a romantic manner. I think some people have a hard time differentiating over the two.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Sept 5, 2017 12:59:52 GMT -5
And that's fine, people have their preferences. You might not like the way the show developed it but you can't honestly deny that it was developed in a romantic manner. I think some people have a hard time differentiating over the two. The problem for most, that I have seen so far in comments and reviews is that fans are unable to separate the incest from the romance and the fact they put Bran's voiceover and the Rhaegar/Lyanna wedding meshed in seems to give many people the impression we're supposed to think it's gross, like every time we've seen Cersei and Jaime together. Now granted, the circumstances of Jon/Daenerys are much different from Jaime/Cersei and on top of that they don't even know they're related, so there's no choice to make here like there is for Jaime and Cersei who have been incestuously related since they were young and in complete defiance (and secret) from everyone around them. I don't understand why the two are compared as one and the same at all. Most of us here loved the montage of Rhaegar and Lyanna's reveal meshed with Jon and Daenerys and it's clear as a bell they intended to show that despite the great 'mistake' they were making, Rhaegar and Lyanna truly loved one another as do Jon and Daenerys. Sure, the romance for Jon and Daenerys happened very quickly (but I'll argue the same for their previous lovers in the comparison of episodes/season) and we haven't gotten a lot of 'romantic talk' or courtship at all between them other than the constant eyes they made at one another - but is this really so unbelievable yet a romance between two otherwise unrelated or connected characters from the past who are both dead when the story begins is more 'real' and genuine? People are nitpicking at this point, and as you say, it's not because there was anything concrete and 'bad' about the love scene, it's because mostly they just don't want the two characters to get together on that level and probably were hoping for something else. My thoughts on this are, at this point in the game, there's not a whole lot of great marriage prospects for either a young Queen just arrived from Essos or a 'bastard' King Northerner who is at war and labeled a traitor by the current throne holder. What do they really expect? I suppose Jon should marry Alys Karstark, because ...
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Sept 5, 2017 14:25:09 GMT -5
Recently I saw an article online where two people were having fertility problems, and went to a specialist for help. In the course of genetic testing, it came back these two people, who were both adopted children, were actually brother and sister. Comments ranged from supportive to downright nasty. I remember thinking how could one fall in love without knowing the background of the other person, but those records aren't always available.
What do you do when your life isn't what you planned? That's how I view R+L. They didn't plan on falling in love, but life had other ideas.
Now we have Jon and Dany. If life hadn't been so rudely interrupted by Robert's Rebellion, chances are better than average Dany would have been Jon's wife anyway. Rhaegar would have become king, with Viserys as the spare heir.
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Post by Lils on Sept 5, 2017 14:37:26 GMT -5
And that's fine, people have their preferences. You might not like the way the show developed it but you can't honestly deny that it was developed in a romantic manner. I think some people have a hard time differentiating over the two. The problem for most, that I have seen so far in comments and reviews is that fans are unable to separate the incest from the romance and the fact they put Bran's voiceover and the Rhaegar/Lyanna wedding meshed in seems to give many people the impression we're supposed to think it's gross, like every time we've seen Cersei and Jaime together. Now granted, the circumstances of Jon/Daenerys are much different from Jaime/Cersei and on top of that they don't even know they're related, so there's no choice to make here like there is for Jaime and Cersei who have been incestuously related since they were young and in complete defiance (and secret) from everyone around them. I don't understand why the two are compared as one and the same at all. Most of us here loved the montage of Rhaegar and Lyanna's reveal meshed with Jon and Daenerys and it's clear as a bell they intended to show that despite the great 'mistake' they were making, Rhaegar and Lyanna truly loved one another as do Jon and Daenerys. Sure, the romance for Jon and Daenerys happened very quickly (but I'll argue the same for their previous lovers in the comparison of episodes/season) and we haven't gotten a lot of 'romantic talk' or courtship at all between them other than the constant eyes they made at one another - but is this really so unbelievable yet a romance between two otherwise unrelated or connected characters from the past who are both dead when the story begins is more 'real' and genuine? People are nitpicking at this point, and as you say, it's not because there was anything concrete and 'bad' about the love scene, it's because mostly they just don't want the two characters to get together on that level and probably were hoping for something else. My thoughts on this are, at this point in the game, there's not a whole lot of great marriage prospects for either a young Queen just arrived from Essos or a 'bastard' King Northerner who is at war and labeled a traitor by the current throne holder. What do they really expect? I suppose Jon should marry Alys Karstark, because ... People claim that the relationship was rushed, but neither of them gave a formal declaration of their feelings. It was all in the eyes and there is no telling when that shifted from attraction to love. The most romantic thing they had done before the finale was hold hands. These two were perhaps the most tame in their courtship out of anyone on the show. It was all subtlety and facial expressions. Honestly, I think that made it all the more intense and heated. The writers had a few occasions where they had a character remark on how Jon and Dany felt, but the two of them never had to declare to each other "Okay, we're in love". It was like they both already knew how they felt. I don't know. I'm just really baffled at the level of denial that goes on. Someone even commented to me that it was clear that one of the writers hates Jon/Dany because they made the finale scene creepy instead of romantic.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Sept 5, 2017 14:38:59 GMT -5
Recently I saw an article online where two people were having fertility problems, and went to a specialist for help. In the course of genetic testing, it came back these two people, who were both adopted children, were actually brother and sister. Comments ranged from supportive to downright nasty. I remember thinking how could one fall in love without knowing the background of the other person, but those records aren't always available. What do you do when your life isn't what you planned? That's how I view R+L. They didn't plan on falling in love, but life had other ideas. Now we have Jon and Dany. If life hadn't been so rudely interrupted by Robert's Rebellion, chances are better than average Dany would have been Jon's wife anyway. Rhaegar would have become king, with Viserys as the spare heir. This is actually a thing that happens. I think it's called genetic sexual attraction? It's when two people who don't know they are related begin a relationship with each other. There are some theories that people are attracted to facial structures similar to their own, so if you don't grow up with someone you are related to and that taboo isn't early instilled, it can result in an attraction. But you're right, I wonder what you do in that instance.
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Post by moiaf on Sept 5, 2017 18:39:53 GMT -5
The problem for most, that I have seen so far in comments and reviews is that fans are unable to separate the incest from the romance and the fact they put Bran's voiceover and the Rhaegar/Lyanna wedding meshed in seems to give many people the impression we're supposed to think it's gross, like every time we've seen Cersei and Jaime together. Now granted, the circumstances of Jon/Daenerys are much different from Jaime/Cersei and on top of that they don't even know they're related, so there's no choice to make here like there is for Jaime and Cersei who have been incestuously related since they were young and in complete defiance (and secret) from everyone around them. I don't understand why the two are compared as one and the same at all. Most of us here loved the montage of Rhaegar and Lyanna's reveal meshed with Jon and Daenerys and it's clear as a bell they intended to show that despite the great 'mistake' they were making, Rhaegar and Lyanna truly loved one another as do Jon and Daenerys. Sure, the romance for Jon and Daenerys happened very quickly (but I'll argue the same for their previous lovers in the comparison of episodes/season) and we haven't gotten a lot of 'romantic talk' or courtship at all between them other than the constant eyes they made at one another - but is this really so unbelievable yet a romance between two otherwise unrelated or connected characters from the past who are both dead when the story begins is more 'real' and genuine? People are nitpicking at this point, and as you say, it's not because there was anything concrete and 'bad' about the love scene, it's because mostly they just don't want the two characters to get together on that level and probably were hoping for something else. My thoughts on this are, at this point in the game, there's not a whole lot of great marriage prospects for either a young Queen just arrived from Essos or a 'bastard' King Northerner who is at war and labeled a traitor by the current throne holder. What do they really expect? I suppose Jon should marry Alys Karstark, because ... People claim that the relationship was rushed, but neither of them gave a formal declaration of their feelings. It was all in the eyes and there is no telling when that shifted from attraction to love. The most romantic thing they had done before the finale was hold hands. These two were perhaps the most tame in their courtship out of anyone on the show. It was all subtlety and facial expressions. Honestly, I think that made it all the more intense and heated. The writers had a few occasions where they had a character remark on how Jon and Dany felt, but the two of them never had to declare to each other "Okay, we're in love". It was like they both already knew how they felt. I don't know. I'm just really baffled at the level of denial that goes on. Someone even commented to me that it was clear that one of the writers hates Jon/Dany because they made the finale scene creepy instead of romantic. I think something to consider as well is that we haven't seen Jon and Dany as a couple in the way we say D/D and J/Y. We just saw the buildup which took five episodes. It'll be interesting to see them now that they are officially together.
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