Lils
Moondancer
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
@lils
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 2,069
inherit
100
0
Feb 3, 2018 18:50:43 GMT -5
2,069
Lils
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
1,294
Oct 10, 2016 15:43:58 GMT -5
October 2016
lils
|
Post by Lils on Sept 8, 2017 22:04:40 GMT -5
He has changed. Jon has been to the other side and knows there is nothing but this life ahead. His idealism has taken a shift into focus, and he is the man Maester Aemon implored him to become. With a high certainty of death, he makes decisions whereas before we tended to see Emo Jon more often than Lord Snow. Plainly put, Jon has grown up and I guess some people prefer the angst-ridden, floppy-haired Jon who sulked to adult Jon. Personally, I think this new Jon is a lot sexier, but to each their own I guess. Jon's way better now than he was before. There was a short period of reluctance and existential crisis for him, but he shook that off fast and got busy doing what he needs to do. He's been focused on that ever since. No kidding. I found the Wall to be the most boring part of the show until he became Lord Commander. Hardhome is still one of my favorite episodes and after he resurrected, holy crap. He's so sexy now. He's more confident, self assured and just a stronger person. He's an adult whereas before, he was still a boy, even as Lord Commander. It's like his death made him grow up.
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Sept 9, 2017 0:24:41 GMT -5
I know there are some mixed feelings about reaction vids here, but I think a few of you like them. I find them weirdly compelling. Anyway, I found these girls' videos the other day, and they are really fun, and have the best reaction to boatsex I've seen. They're pretty much the external manifestation of what was going on in my head during the scene, haha. Aww those girls were so cute! I am one of the few in our fan group here who does enjoy the reaction videos - they amuse me immensely to see how silly (or emotional) people act about the big scenes of the show. I have seen far more positive reactions to Jon/Daenerys love scene than negative ones. This one wins the award for most hilarious (positive) reaction from a very funny Jon/Dany shipper! "THIS SHIP HAS SAAAAAILED!!!" (I queued it to the exact scene but his whole episode reaction is so damn hilarious, and if you watch his reaction to every episode, this guy's been shipping Jon and Daenerys hardcore all season.... "DON'T JUDGE MEH!" he says! )
|
|
charliexcx
Viserion
@charliexcx
Posts: 121
Likes: 165
inherit
48
0
Aug 5, 2017 23:48:54 GMT -5
165
charliexcx
121
Jul 9, 2016 0:15:26 GMT -5
July 2016
charliexcx
|
Post by charliexcx on Sept 9, 2017 2:20:16 GMT -5
Jon's way better now than he was before. There was a short period of reluctance and existential crisis for him, but he shook that off fast and got busy doing what he needs to do. He's been focused on that ever since. No kidding. I found the Wall to be the most boring part of the show until he became Lord Commander. Hardhome is still one of my favorite episodes and after he resurrected, holy crap. He's so sexy now. He's more confident, self assured and just a stronger person. He's an adult whereas before, he was still a boy, even as Lord Commander. It's like his death made him grow up. I agree. His confidence really shows and Kit does a great job. I don't think old Jon would've been able to go toe to toe with Daenerys like he did in episode 3. Also is it bad that I felt like part of the reason the Winterfell plot this season was so boring to me was because Jon wasn't there?
|
|
Lils
Moondancer
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
@lils
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 2,069
inherit
100
0
Feb 3, 2018 18:50:43 GMT -5
2,069
Lils
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
1,294
Oct 10, 2016 15:43:58 GMT -5
October 2016
lils
|
Post by Lils on Sept 9, 2017 7:35:21 GMT -5
No kidding. I found the Wall to be the most boring part of the show until he became Lord Commander. Hardhome is still one of my favorite episodes and after he resurrected, holy crap. He's so sexy now. He's more confident, self assured and just a stronger person. He's an adult whereas before, he was still a boy, even as Lord Commander. It's like his death made him grow up. I agree. His confidence really shows and Kit does a great job. I don't think old Jon would've been able to go toe to toe with Daenerys like he did in episode 3. Also is it bad that I felt like part of the reason the Winterfell plot this season was so boring to me was because Jon wasn't there? Nope. Jon has been really dynamic lately. Winterfell was amazing last season that it suffers this season without him. Dragonstone was the best part.
|
|
Lils
Moondancer
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
@lils
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 2,069
inherit
100
0
Feb 3, 2018 18:50:43 GMT -5
2,069
Lils
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
1,294
Oct 10, 2016 15:43:58 GMT -5
October 2016
lils
|
Post by Lils on Sept 9, 2017 8:24:39 GMT -5
|
|
cosmos
Viserion
@cosmos
Posts: 205
Likes: 172
inherit
163
0
Dec 15, 2019 22:22:39 GMT -5
172
cosmos
205
Sept 7, 2017 9:38:25 GMT -5
September 2017
cosmos
|
Post by cosmos on Sept 9, 2017 10:52:07 GMT -5
There is definitely a difference between Jon pre- and post-resurrection. His death and return is obviously a physical representation of "Kill the boy and let the man be born". The boy, idealistic and righteous, is killed and in his place returns a man, cynical and pessimistic. He spent almost the entirety of season 6 in a suicidal depression and it is only during the the battle, more specifically the emerging from the body pile scene that Jon embraced life again as a purpose. It's no wonder that scene echoes Daenerys iconic Mhysa scene where she finds a purpose beyond taking the Iron Throne. It is also no coincidence that the scenes go in different directions thematically. Dany forgoes pursuing a selfish objective, i.e. taking the Iron Throne, in order to help people and end slavery. Meanwhile Jon, who has always put others and others' needs before his own desires and wants, finally embraces life for life's sake. Not life as means to an end but as the end itself. And once he accepts that is okay to want things for himself he feels free to pursue Daenerys. Because there isn't any gain for anyone but himself by going into a romantic/sexual relationship with Dany. When he hesitates before knocking on her door, that's the boy, the bastard boy who never fitted in the Stark family, unsure and uncertain of being worth of love. It's boy who has to take a moment to look down at Dany's face to be assured of her love. But it's the man who knocks on the door. It's the man who confidently walks into her room and closes that door. It's the man who is kissing, loving, licking Dany.
And Kit played that dichotomy beautifully.
|
|
milyagaryen
Viserion
@milyagaryen
Posts: 154
Likes: 254
inherit
106
0
Nov 12, 2016 23:47:12 GMT -5
254
milyagaryen
154
Nov 12, 2016 22:25:09 GMT -5
November 2016
milyagaryen
|
Post by milyagaryen on Sept 9, 2017 11:18:45 GMT -5
Yep, I think that these comments about not knowing the details of how Aragorn ruled are really strong support for Dany, Jon or both ending up as ruler in the end. The only other contender I can see would be Tyrion in some sort of regent capacity, and that does seem a bit like cheating, given Tyrion's "ruling" arc hasn't been quite so challenging. I think it's interesting to think about how Aragorn and Arwen fit into the "bittersweet" theme - what stops their relationship from being too happy is that Arwen is forced to give up her immortality and perhaps more importantly her family to be with Aragorn and start a new family together. (As an aside, the scene from LOTR where Arwen pictures what it would be like to mourn Aragorn is one of my favourite scenes ever, it's so lovely yet sad). I've tried thinking of a similar sacrifice which could be required for Jon and Daenerys, and the only thing I can come up with is if Dany has to give up her dragons. Maybe this could be connected to the fire to love? Bit of a tangent, but this also makes me think of Michele Clapton acknowledging it has been a deliberate choice not to give Daenerys a crown yet - "she can't have the crown because it would be wearing it before it was due". This hints strongly that there will come a moment in the future when it will be due - otherwise why save it? The only appropriate occasions would be a coronation or perhaps a wedding!
|
|
Lils
Moondancer
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
@lils
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 2,069
inherit
100
0
Feb 3, 2018 18:50:43 GMT -5
2,069
Lils
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
1,294
Oct 10, 2016 15:43:58 GMT -5
October 2016
lils
|
Post by Lils on Sept 9, 2017 11:49:25 GMT -5
Yep, I think that these comments about not knowing the details of how Aragorn ruled are really strong support for Dany, Jon or both ending up as ruler in the end. The only other contender I can see would be Tyrion in some sort of regent capacity, and that does seem a bit like cheating, given Tyrion's "ruling" arc hasn't been quite so challenging. I think it's interesting to think about how Aragorn and Arwen fit into the "bittersweet" theme - what stops their relationship from being too happy is that Arwen is forced to give up her immortality and perhaps more importantly her family to be with Aragorn and start a new family together. (As an aside, the scene from LOTR where Arwen pictures what it would be like to mourn Aragorn is one of my favourite scenes ever, it's so lovely yet sad). I've tried thinking of a similar sacrifice which could be required for Jon and Daenerys, and the only thing I can come up with is if Dany has to give up her dragons. Maybe this could be connected to the fire to love? Bit of a tangent, but this also makes me think of Michele Clapton acknowledging it has been a deliberate choice not to give Daenerys a crown yet - "she can't have the crown because it would be wearing it before it was due". This hints strongly that there will come a moment in the future when it will be due - otherwise why save it? The only appropriate occasions would be a coronation or perhaps a wedding! GRRM really loves the politics and the makings of a kingdom. There's a reason in the books that the WW barely have shown up. It's why I don't think the war is going to really be where GRRM's focus will be for the ending. It will happen and it will be heartbreaking, but not in the way everybody expects. It's that line about Aragorn that really confirms to me that Jon/Dany will rule at the end. It's what he wants to explore and show how they learned to rule, where they failed at ruling and how they learned and grew stronger. I know it's expected to be sad with one character dying, but I just can't see it. It doesn't fit into what we know about GRRM as a writer or what sort of story he wants to create. It's Tolkien, but reality(ish) based Tolkien.
|
|
moiaf
Mother of Dragons
@admin
Posts: 6,194
Likes: 6,494
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 4 Time Winner
#9618a9
1
0
1
Apr 29, 2020 17:41:53 GMT -5
6,494
moiaf
6,194
Jun 20, 2016 18:58:43 GMT -5
June 2016
admin
4 Time Winner
|
Post by moiaf on Sept 9, 2017 13:05:00 GMT -5
To paraphrase the users irisandre and Star_Trekker in the comments below that post: "Interesting. We must watch the scene again, this time for science!"
In all seriousness, I think this is an excellent analysis of both the scene itself and how Jon and Dany will eventually respond to the revelation. One can debate as to how much the writers and director planned out these exact beats, because short of a tell-all interview, there's no way to know. But once we have Season 8 to look back on, I think this interpretation will hold as consistent with everything to come later in Jon and Dany's relationship. I thought it was very astute how the writer connected the voice over to future events given what we know and expect from Jon and Dany's relationship. It was meant to be a beautiful moment with some foreboding given the revelations, however, that doesn't take away from the bond they created between Jon and Dany throughout the season. That development has to come to something, it can't just be for shock value and then they are never together again. That just seems unnecessary and how does that move the plot forward. This interpretation takes these things into consideration. That's how I've suspected it would play out, but I like the analysis of that moment. It does remove any sinister connotations (not that I thought they were there to begin with). Yeah, I'm pretty resolute in my belief that any supposed foreshadowing of conflict between Jon and Dany in Season 8 is this year's version of foreshadowing conflict between Jon and Sansa prior to Season 7. It's not that there's nothing there, but it was far less substantial and contentious than it was presaged to be - ultimately, the two were on the same page, and both the cast and the writers were just trying not to give the true story of the season away. I suppose that we need to brace ourselves that this foreboding topic is inevitably going to be a raised in all of the cast interviews leading up to Season 8, because it's an easy thing to talk about in thirty-second soundbites rather than explaining with detailed supporting evidence why Jon and Dany's relationship is strong enough to survive something like this. But that's just part of the promotional game, and we just need to accept it. As long as it doesn't carry over to the final product, all will be well. I'm really not looking forward to this, it's going to be so annoying. Kit is the worse because he'll go all in and exaggerate about everything. They'll keep Emilia away because she's a horrible liar. Yeah, I'm pretty resolute in my belief that any supposed foreshadowing of conflict between Jon and Dany in Season 8 is this year's version of foreshadowing conflict between Jon and Sansa prior to Season 7. It's not that there's nothing there, but it was far less substantial and contentious than it was presaged to be - ultimately, the two were on the same page, and both the cast and the writers were just trying not to give the true story of the season away. I suppose that we need to brace ourselves that this foreboding topic is inevitably going to be a raised in all of the cast interviews leading up to Season 8, because it's an easy thing to talk about in thirty-second soundbites rather than explaining with detailed supporting evidence why Jon and Dany's relationship is strong enough to survive something like this. But that's just part of the promotional game, and we just need to accept it. As long as it doesn't carry over to the final product, all will be well. Yeah, it's going to be annoying if the conflict it hyped, but I guess we just need to have faith in our interpretations of the story...we've all been right so far! I don't remember the interview, but I'm pretty certain Kit said that he doesn't normally see the full episodes before they premiere, but that he had seen E7 because he recorded some commentary for it, so I think we will definitely get a bit more discussion by him of the scene when the DVDs/blurays are released. It will be interesting to see if they stick to the "it's all a bit icky" line in that too... OMG re. Jon, Envie , Lady Sansa's Direwolf , I totally agree, he is 10000% sexier since his resurrection. I've thought for a while that this whole fandom-obsession with Northern independence is completely overblown, and not really supported by the story either, and this idea that Jon of all people would care about it at the expense of the rest of the world is completely wrong. I never really understoon the obsession with Northern independance. There is a winter apocalypse happening, who the fuck cares about independance when you are almos assured of your death if you don't ally with someone who can save you. It's so ridiculous. Yep, I think that these comments about not knowing the details of how Aragorn ruled are really strong support for Dany, Jon or both ending up as ruler in the end. The only other contender I can see would be Tyrion in some sort of regent capacity, and that does seem a bit like cheating, given Tyrion's "ruling" arc hasn't been quite so challenging. I think it's interesting to think about how Aragorn and Arwen fit into the "bittersweet" theme - what stops their relationship from being too happy is that Arwen is forced to give up her immortality and perhaps more importantly her family to be with Aragorn and start a new family together. (As an aside, the scene from LOTR where Arwen pictures what it would be like to mourn Aragorn is one of my favourite scenes ever, it's so lovely yet sad). I've tried thinking of a similar sacrifice which could be required for Jon and Daenerys, and the only thing I can come up with is if Dany has to give up her dragons. Maybe this could be connected to the fire to love? Bit of a tangent, but this also makes me think of Michele Clapton acknowledging it has been a deliberate choice not to give Daenerys a crown yet - "she can't have the crown because it would be wearing it before it was due". This hints strongly that there will come a moment in the future when it will be due - otherwise why save it? The only appropriate occasions would be a coronation or perhaps a wedding! When I read these comments at the beginning of the season I thought the same thing. They are saving her crown for a reason. Otherwise, they would have given her one. I think this is another element that supports the idea that they'll survive in the end. I know a lot of people like to say that Dany wouldn't get the crown because she's wanted it all along and people in asoiaf don't get what they want, but that's just not true. In asoiaf or in real life. A lot of people who didn't get what they wanted was due to the fact that they went about getting it the wrong way. Yep, I think that these comments about not knowing the details of how Aragorn ruled are really strong support for Dany, Jon or both ending up as ruler in the end. The only other contender I can see would be Tyrion in some sort of regent capacity, and that does seem a bit like cheating, given Tyrion's "ruling" arc hasn't been quite so challenging. I think it's interesting to think about how Aragorn and Arwen fit into the "bittersweet" theme - what stops their relationship from being too happy is that Arwen is forced to give up her immortality and perhaps more importantly her family to be with Aragorn and start a new family together. (As an aside, the scene from LOTR where Arwen pictures what it would be like to mourn Aragorn is one of my favourite scenes ever, it's so lovely yet sad). I've tried thinking of a similar sacrifice which could be required for Jon and Daenerys, and the only thing I can come up with is if Dany has to give up her dragons. Maybe this could be connected to the fire to love? Bit of a tangent, but this also makes me think of Michele Clapton acknowledging it has been a deliberate choice not to give Daenerys a crown yet - "she can't have the crown because it would be wearing it before it was due". This hints strongly that there will come a moment in the future when it will be due - otherwise why save it? The only appropriate occasions would be a coronation or perhaps a wedding! GRRM really loves the politics and the makings of a kingdom. There's a reason in the books that the WW barely have shown up. It's why I don't think the war is going to really be where GRRM's focus will be for the ending. It will happen and it will be heartbreaking, but not in the way everybody expects. It's that line about Aragorn that really confirms to me that Jon/Dany will rule at the end. It's what he wants to explore and show how they learned to rule, where they failed at ruling and how they learned and grew stronger. I know it's expected to be sad with one character dying, but I just can't see it. It doesn't fit into what we know about GRRM as a writer or what sort of story he wants to create. It's Tolkien, but reality(ish) based Tolkien. The WW are meant to be the real thread, but I think the irony is that only a few people truly understand the magnitude of the threat. Thankfully, one of those people has the largest armies in the world and fire breathing dragons. But I think this is meant to show how we act in real life, even facing natural catastrophe there are people out there still trying to make a buck, exploiting crisis to get more power and make more money. It's a sick cycle and behavior that it true to real life.
|
|
moiaf
Mother of Dragons
@admin
Posts: 6,194
Likes: 6,494
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 4 Time Winner
#9618a9
1
0
1
Apr 29, 2020 17:41:53 GMT -5
6,494
moiaf
6,194
Jun 20, 2016 18:58:43 GMT -5
June 2016
admin
4 Time Winner
|
Post by moiaf on Sept 9, 2017 13:56:25 GMT -5
Years ago in the comment section of GRRM's blog someone commented that they wanted Dany and the dragons to die, and GRRM answered, "Tsk, tsk". I take that as a good omen. You can see his tsk here, although the person deleted their comments there are other comments below it describing what they said.
|
|
charliexcx
Viserion
@charliexcx
Posts: 121
Likes: 165
inherit
48
0
Aug 5, 2017 23:48:54 GMT -5
165
charliexcx
121
Jul 9, 2016 0:15:26 GMT -5
July 2016
charliexcx
|
Post by charliexcx on Sept 9, 2017 14:09:59 GMT -5
Haha. GRRM is such a Targaryen Stan! I love it! I mean noah fence to the other houses because I do believe that he loves them too but the Targaryen's are the one's he is most obsessed with IMO
|
|
moiaf
Mother of Dragons
@admin
Posts: 6,194
Likes: 6,494
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 4 Time Winner
#9618a9
1
0
1
Apr 29, 2020 17:41:53 GMT -5
6,494
moiaf
6,194
Jun 20, 2016 18:58:43 GMT -5
June 2016
admin
4 Time Winner
|
Post by moiaf on Sept 9, 2017 14:12:42 GMT -5
Haha. GRRM is such a Targaryen Stan! I love it! I mean noah fence to the other houses because I do believe that he loves them too but the Targaryen's are the one's he is most obsessed with IMO For sure. I always say, the Starks might have been his first love but it was the Targaryens who stole his heart. Every single asoiaf side project is Targaryen-centric. He owns an art studio and called is Dragonston Studios, he can't help it, he loves that family.
|
|
charliexcx
Viserion
@charliexcx
Posts: 121
Likes: 165
inherit
48
0
Aug 5, 2017 23:48:54 GMT -5
165
charliexcx
121
Jul 9, 2016 0:15:26 GMT -5
July 2016
charliexcx
|
Post by charliexcx on Sept 9, 2017 14:25:51 GMT -5
About the Arwen & Aragorn thing, when I was reading LOTR years ago Dany & Jon popped into my head as well. Just always gave me that vibe. I believe Arwen & Aragorn are related too but not as close as Jon & Dany. It's been a while since I read LOTR so my memory could be wrong.
Edit: just looked at the Arwen/Aragorn tumblr post. That anon and I see eye to eye. So they are related? Hmmm probably doesn't mean much just something I picked up.
Also kind of goes with my theory that GRRM might see the Targaryens as the Elves of Westeros. Dany=Elf like beauty kind of. Jon/Aegon= A ranger just like Aragorn.
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Sept 9, 2017 14:44:26 GMT -5
About the Arwen & Aragorn thing, when I was reading LOTR years ago Dany & Jon popped into my head as well. Just always gave me that vibe. Funny because I believe Arwen & Aragorn are related too but not as close as Jon & Dany. It's been a while since I read LOTR so my memory could be wrong. I didn't know this but according to that post Lils quoted, Arwen and Aragorn were related, though everything I can find info on says they were cousins and quite a bit removed so their family connection was a lot less than Jon and Daenerys. I have always gotten a bit of a "Strider" / Aragorn vibe from Jon Snow as well. Jon Snow, like Aragorn, did not know his true heritage growing up as his Mother requested he be renamed and it kept secret when he was fostered at Rivendell after his Father was killed. It's also interesting to note that Aragorn rarely went by his proper "king" name until much later and went by "Estel" or "Strider" so like many nobles in medieval fantasy (and even real life monarchs) it's not uncommon to have a familiar name and a formal one. If Jon becomes King of Westeros, he would be King Aegon VI Targaryen, but I doubt he'll ever be called that by friends and family. He'll just be "Jon" to everyone around him.
|
|
Lils
Moondancer
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
@lils
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 2,069
inherit
100
0
Feb 3, 2018 18:50:43 GMT -5
2,069
Lils
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it..."
1,294
Oct 10, 2016 15:43:58 GMT -5
October 2016
lils
|
Post by Lils on Sept 9, 2017 16:56:42 GMT -5
About the Arwen & Aragorn thing, when I was reading LOTR years ago Dany & Jon popped into my head as well. Just always gave me that vibe. Funny because I believe Arwen & Aragorn are related too but not as close as Jon & Dany. It's been a while since I read LOTR so my memory could be wrong. I didn't know this but according to that post Lils quoted, Arwen and Aragorn were related, though everything I can find info on says they were cousins and quite a bit removed so their family connection was a lot less than Jon and Daenerys. I have always gotten a bit of a "Strider" / Aragorn vibe from Jon Snow as well. Jon Snow, like Aragorn, did not know his true heritage growing up as his Mother requested he be renamed and it kept secret when he was fostered at Rivendell after his Father was killed. It's also interesting to note that Aragorn rarely went by his proper "king" name until much later and went by "Estel" or "Strider" so like many nobles in medieval fantasy (and even real life monarchs) it's not uncommon to have a familiar name and a formal one. If Jon becomes King of Westeros, he would be King Aegon VI Targaryen, but I doubt he'll ever be called that by friends and family. He'll just be "Jon" to everyone around him. At least it's still incest to just point out when people get uppity. I was thinking about that as well. The more you look at Aragorn/Jon, you can see the major parallels between them. The secret identity, the special sword, the somewhat forbidden love, and the fellowship to deal with an ancient power (I know it's the show, but I just found that cute). I suspect that GRRM is using Jon as an Aragorn extension, exploring more of what he wanted to see happen with Aragorn's reign. (How did he rule wisely, etc.) I like though how active and how much personality Dany has compared to Arwen, but she has that mystical element that Arwen did.
|
|