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Post by azraelsings on Oct 3, 2017 10:29:32 GMT -5
Hey gang, sorry I'm so late to the discussion - real life has been kicking my butt the last couple of weeks. I'll share my thoughts and engage in this awesome discussion in the next few days though!
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Post by atargbyanothername on Oct 6, 2017 7:35:04 GMT -5
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms By N.K. Jemisin
Here are some discussion questions you might want to answer to get the conversation going:
Story
1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner? I thought Jemisin's explored her themes in a refreshingly unique way, and used her distinctive voice/style to great effect. There was a lot of exploration of the abuse of power (by various characters - Itempas, Dekarta, the three heirs (even Yeine immediately uses her power for personal reasons to help her homeland). I thought it was well done and carried through full circle with the ending, with Yeine embracing the power of Enefa in a good way, acknowledging her temptation to destroy but ultimately choosing life and balance. I also liked how Jemisin's explored fluidity in a number of contexts. "Light/Dark" with Itempas and Nahadoth, with neither really being just one or the other. Some excellent use of language to do this, for example all of the "bright" descriptors to describe Nahdoth's shadow and darkness. And again with sexuality and gender (this is something in common with her other work I feel). Nahadoth and Itempas are gods and not subject to the same rules as mortals. The love between them (and hate, but that's two sides of the same coin) transcends such arbitrary distinctions as "male" and "female" that humans use, and their forms do not limit themselves to this (loved the way Nahadoth sometimes looks feminine, sometimes masculine, but Yeine's lust for him is totally unrelated to something as trivial as gender.
2. What did you think of the structure and style of the writing? I've read her most recent stuff which I think was better but a natural progression/improvement from where she has started here. The prose is simple enough that it's easy to read but still manages to convey plenty of meaning and is capable of having multiple interpretations.
3. What scene resonated most with you personally in either a positive or negative way? Why? Thescdne where Yeine becomes Zeneca (sort of). I thought it was wonderfully written and tied together the various plots and themes of the book nicely. I also liked the slowly mounting tension of the ceremony where you knew something was going to go wrong but didn't know what exactly that was. Viraine was a big glowing suspicious question mark all through the encounter but I never guessed the truth of it
Characters
5. Which character resonated the most with you? Why? Sieh. I enjoyed the dichotomy between childish, whimsical innocence and the terrifying knowledge that this "boy" is a god who is capable of and has done some incredible fucked up astuff. And has also been through some incredibly fucked up stuff (the paedophillia...)
6. Which character resonated the least with you? Why? The two heirs, Scimina and Relad. I would have liked them to be more developed as characters. As it was they felt a bit one-note.
7. Did you think the character were well developed? See above. Otherwise I think the other characters were well done. Especially liked what was done with Dekarta though. He was initially presented as a bitter and hateful old man who had ordered the death of his daughter but the reality was he loved her and was secretly proud of who she had become. I liked that part.
Other stuff: I liked how prevalent and high-stakes the magic in this book was. In a novel where the main characters are all gods/goslings (LOL! Such a funny autocorrect that I don't want to change it), it makes sense that the stakes should be so high. The literal fate of the world hinges on the whims and decisions of our main characters. And I love how this plays off against their characteristics too. The idea that the fate of a nation could rest in the hands of a Golding who is so childish he recovers from sustained torture by playing pass and tag... Thisnalso brings to mind the flashback of Nahadoth almost destroying the world. That was an awesome scene
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Post by atargbyanothername on Oct 6, 2017 7:35:30 GMT -5
Sorry I was so late! Have started book two already though
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 16:07:27 GMT -5
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms By N.K. Jemisin Here are some discussion questions you might want to answer to get the conversation going: Story 1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner? I thought Jemisin's explored her themes in a refreshingly unique way, and used her distinctive voice/style to great effect. There was a lot of exploration of the abuse of power (by various characters - Itempas, Dekarta, the three heirs (even Yeine immediately uses her power for personal reasons to help her homeland). I thought it was well done and carried through full circle with the ending, with Yeine embracing the power of Enefa in a good way, acknowledging her temptation to destroy but ultimately choosing life and balance. I also liked how Jemisin's explored fluidity in a number of contexts. "Light/Dark" with Itempas and Nahadoth, with neither really being just one or the other. Some excellent use of language to do this, for example all of the "bright" descriptors to describe Nahdoth's shadow and darkness. And again with sexuality and gender (this is something in common with her other work I feel). Nahadoth and Itempas are gods and not subject to the same rules as mortals. The love between them (and hate, but that's two sides of the same coin) transcends such arbitrary distinctions as "male" and "female" that humans use, and their forms do not limit themselves to this (loved the way Nahadoth sometimes looks feminine, sometimes masculine, but Yeine's lust for him is totally unrelated to something as trivial as gender. Great post! Absolutely agree with you, and you touched upon some of my favorite aspects of the book, like the fluid sexuality and how it was not restricted to gender, surely not when the gods where concerned, and I love how she wrote it, seamlessly into the narrative with no tricks to make it appear sensational and no explanation that would have set it apart from other relationships. It just was, like love is. This is indeed a constant in all her writing and one of the reason I adore her works.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Oct 6, 2017 17:30:01 GMT -5
The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms By N.K. Jemisin Here are some discussion questions you might want to answer to get the conversation going: Story 1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner? I thought Jemisin's explored her themes in a refreshingly unique way, and used her distinctive voice/style to great effect. There was a lot of exploration of the abuse of power (by various characters - Itempas, Dekarta, the three heirs (even Yeine immediately uses her power for personal reasons to help her homeland). I thought it was well done and carried through full circle with the ending, with Yeine embracing the power of Enefa in a good way, acknowledging her temptation to destroy but ultimately choosing life and balance. I also liked how Jemisin's explored fluidity in a number of contexts. "Light/Dark" with Itempas and Nahadoth, with neither really being just one or the other. Some excellent use of language to do this, for example all of the "bright" descriptors to describe Nahdoth's shadow and darkness. And again with sexuality and gender (this is something in common with her other work I feel). Nahadoth and Itempas are gods and not subject to the same rules as mortals. The love between them (and hate, but that's two sides of the same coin) transcends such arbitrary distinctions as "male" and "female" that humans use, and their forms do not limit themselves to this (loved the way Nahadoth sometimes looks feminine, sometimes masculine, but Yeine's lust for him is totally unrelated to something as trivial as gender. Great post! Absolutely agree with you, and you touched upon some of my favorite aspects of the book, like the fluid sexuality and how it was not restricted to gender, surely not when the gods where concerned, and I love how she wrote it, seamlessly into the narrative with no tricks to make it appear sensational and no explanation that would have set it apart from other relationships. It just was, like love is. This is indeed a constant in all her writing and one of the reason I adore her works. I know you read The Fifth Season so what I had in mind when writing this, particularly the relationships bit was The polyamory on the island which is presented as entirely unremarkable it simply is. And it works absolutely fine, Jemisin's is not critical of it, she simply depicts it as any other relationship. There are the same goods and bads of any monogamous relationship.
Another example is how she just casually reveals Tonkee is a trans woman and that's just done without comment because it's not really something to get worked up over or exclaim about. Because, y'know, it isn't.
Don't know how much fantasy everyone else reads, but I think Jemisin succeeds at what Richard Morgan wanted to achieve with A Land Fit for Heroes. There, he thought he was shockingly clever by making his main character gay because OMG there are no gay characters in fantasy look at me I'm so fucking clever and provocative. When in actual fact LGBT characters have existed in fantasy for some time and the backlash was more because Ringil is almost entirely defined by his sexuality which is not how to write a good character. Gay characters, or trans character, or whatever, should be written just as any other - with real, interesting motivations, complex emotions and a genuine life, not just OMG read this graphic anal alien sex scene I'm so clever. Sorry, LffH really annoys me I tend to rant about it at length if no-one heads me off so I'll stop now
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 2:21:46 GMT -5
Great post! Absolutely agree with you, and you touched upon some of my favorite aspects of the book, like the fluid sexuality and how it was not restricted to gender, surely not when the gods where concerned, and I love how she wrote it, seamlessly into the narrative with no tricks to make it appear sensational and no explanation that would have set it apart from other relationships. It just was, like love is. This is indeed a constant in all her writing and one of the reason I adore her works. I know you read The Fifth Season so what I had in mind when writing this, particularly the relationships bit was The polyamory on the island which is presented as entirely unremarkable it simply is. And it works absolutely fine, Jemisin's is not critical of it, she simply depicts it as any other relationship. There are the same goods and bads of any monogamous relationship.
Another example is how she just casually reveals Tonkee is a trans woman and that's just done without comment because it's not really something to get worked up over or exclaim about. Because, y'know, it isn't.
Don't know how much fantasy everyone else reads, but I think Jemisin succeeds at what Richard Morgan wanted to achieve with A Land Fit for Heroes. There, he thought he was shockingly clever by making his main character gay because OMG there are no gay characters in fantasy look at me I'm so fucking clever and provocative. When in actual fact LGBT characters have existed in fantasy for some time and the backlash was more because Ringil is almost entirely defined by his sexuality which is not how to write a good character. Gay characters, or trans character, or whatever, should be written just as any other - with real, interesting motivations, complex emotions and a genuine life, not just OMG read this graphic anal alien sex scene I'm so clever. Sorry, LffH really annoys me I tend to rant about it at length if no-one heads me off so I'll stop now Yep, I was referring to what you mentioned in the spoilers but also her other works as well. Unbiased sexuality explorationt is a constant in all her works. She does not make a show of her character’s sexuality. It doesn’t define who they are in the slightest, and I think the majority of writers should learn from her as far as this instance is concerned. Not making a show of it doesn’t mean not exploring it though, and she does so as well. The topic is not mentioned and buried nor mentioned and forgotten, it is also explored, lived and “just is” in many of her main characters. Don’t know the writer you mentioned, but after reading your opinion of his works, I truly am not interested in him. lol Reducing gay characters to just their sexuality, unless the is the study of a character sexuality, is a big NO-NO.
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Post by Maesteress on Oct 9, 2017 16:00:40 GMT -5
OMG, I have so much to catch up on and I haven't finished the book yet - GAH!!! I'll be back here - need to make it through one more work deadline then I can play..... (not looking not looking not looking....)
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