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Post by moiaf on Oct 1, 2017 8:57:58 GMT -5
The Broken Kingdom by N.K. Jemisin Here are some discussion questions you might want to answer to get the conversation going: Story1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner? 2. What did you think of the structure and style of the writing? 3. What scene resonated most with you personally in either a positive or negative way? Why? 4. Were there any particular quotes that stood out to you? Why? Characters5. Which character resonated the most with you? Why? 6. Which character resonated the least with you? Why? 7. Did you think the characters were well developed? 8. How does the way the characters see themselves, differ from how others see them? How do you see the various characters? Ending9. Did you think the ending was appropriate? How would you have liked to have seen the ending go? 10. How have the characters changed by the end of the book? Overall11. Are there any books that you would compare this one too? How does this book hold up to them? 12. What did you learn from, take away from, or get out of this book? 13. Have any of YOUR views or thoughts changed after reading this book? 14. What did you think about the author's writing style (prose, pacing, etc)?
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Post by lojzelote on Oct 5, 2017 18:20:59 GMT -5
Story
1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner? Redemption and its limits? It’s a subject that I find intriguing.
2. What did you think of the structure and style of the writing? Although it was also first person, I found the narrative voice much more vivid than in the previous book.
3. What scene resonated most with you personally in either a positive or negative way? Why?
Itempas getting screwed by the Order Keepers and the New Lights. Some people need taste of their own medicine.
Madding's death was pretty bad. I felt as shocked as Oree when he didn't get up.
And the idea of redemption:
4. Were there any particular quotes that stood out to you? Why?
Characters
5. Which character resonated the most with you? Why? Oree was lovely. I had a much easier time of liking her than in Yeine’s case. Itempas was very interesting. He’s awful most of time, but he’s not irredeemable. Hope we will get more Hado in the third book as well.
6. Which character resonated the least with you? Why? Dateh and Serymn. Just like Scimina; too one-dimensional and evil.
7. Did you think the characters were well developed? In Oree’s and Itempas‘ case, yes.
8. How does the way the characters see themselves, differ from how others see them? How do you see the various characters? The disparity is most obvious in Itempas‘ case. It must have been a shock for him to find out that at least a fraction of his believers worships him because he’s a killer. But, honestly, he is a murderer. Ending
9. Did you think the ending was appropriate? How would you have liked to have seen the ending go? I liked it. I felt bad for Oree, but Itempas deserved it. Yeine and Nahadoth stepping in was unfair, but I agree with Sieh that he got terribly lucky to have met Oree of all people. I guess that the appropriatedness of the ending hangs on whether one believes that a sanction should not only rehabilitate, but also punish. I think I belong in the latter camp, at least in this case. It seems unjust to me that the Enefadeh would have suffered thousands of years at the hands of total sociopaths, while Itempas would have got off after a decade of being free and getting taken in for no reason by an altruistic person like Oree. He might have met Yeine’s terms, but her terms were far too lenient in the first place imho.
10. How have the characters changed by the end of the book? Well, obviously Itempas changed a lot, because he’s come to love a demon lol.
Overall
14. What did you think about the author's writing style (prose, pacing, etc)? It’s hard to describe, but it was easier for me to envision the setting. Maybe it was the author’s intention, but in the previous book Sky felt sterile and underpopulated. In this books it feels much more like a city with life in it.
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Post by dje on Oct 8, 2017 23:17:58 GMT -5
I've finished Book 2, just been really busy with work, I'll try to get back soon and leave my thoughts on it.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Oct 12, 2017 18:27:45 GMT -5
Story
1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner?Redemption and its limits? It’s a subject that I find intriguing. 2. What did you think of the structure and style of the writing?Although it was also first person, I found the narrative voice much more vivid than in the previous book. 3. What scene resonated most with you personally in either a positive or negative way? Why?Itempas getting screwed by the Order Keepers and the New Lights. Some people need taste of their own medicine. Madding's death was pretty bad. I felt as shocked as Oree when he didn't get up. And the idea of redemption: 4. Were there any particular quotes that stood out to you? Why?Characters5. Which character resonated the most with you? Why?Oree was lovely. I had a much easier time of liking her than in Yeine’s case. Itempas was very interesting. He’s awful most of time, but he’s not irredeemable. Hope we will get more Hado in the third book as well. 6. Which character resonated the least with you? Why?Dateh and Serymn. Just like Scimina; too one-dimensional and evil. 7. Did you think the characters were well developed?In Oree’s and Itempas‘ case, yes. 8. How does the way the characters see themselves, differ from how others see them? How do you see the various characters?The disparity is most obvious in Itempas‘ case. It must have been a shock for him to find out that at least a fraction of his believers worships him because he’s a killer. But, honestly, he is a murderer. Ending 9. Did you think the ending was appropriate? How would you have liked to have seen the ending go?I liked it. I felt bad for Oree, but Itempas deserved it. Yeine and Nahadoth stepping in was unfair, but I agree with Sieh that he got terribly lucky to have met Oree of all people. I guess that the appropriatedness of the ending hangs on whether one believes that a sanction should not only rehabilitate, but also punish. I think I belong in the latter camp, at least in this case. It seems unjust to me that the Enefadeh would have suffered thousands of years at the hands of total sociopaths, while Itempas would have got off after a decade of being free and getting taken in for no reason by an altruistic person like Oree. He might have met Yeine’s terms, but her terms were far too lenient in the first place imho. 10. How have the characters changed by the end of the book?Well, obviously Itempas changed a lot, because he’s come to love a demon lol. Overall
14. What did you think about the author's writing style (prose, pacing, etc)?It’s hard to describe, but it was easier for me to envision the setting. Maybe it was the author’s intention, but in the previous book Sky felt sterile and underpopulated. In this books it feels much more like a city with life in it. In response to 14. that is because Sky the city was not really featured in the first book. We only got Sky the Palace, which was populated solely by Arameri of a greater or lesser degree. Sky the City could very well have been as lively as Shadow. Although, I think the presence of the Godlings and the many different cults/religious groups and the widespread use of magic in Shadow do make it very lively and almost a character in its own right (kind of like other urban fantasy novels, e.g. Neverwhere, where the city-setting becomes its own character, or even Kings Landing in asoiaf). just finished the book tonight, will collect my thoughts and post something semi-coherent later
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Post by milyagaryen on Oct 13, 2017 5:41:19 GMT -5
I just finished this one this week. I have to say I enjoyed it a lot more than Book 1. Like lojzelote, I found Oree a much more likeable character than Yeine. Maybe it was because of the way Jemisin had to describe her perceptions in such detail to convey her blindness and magical sight, but I felt a lot more connected to her. I also like Itempas/Shiny a lot more than Nahadoth. I think it's because of Itempas basically being a mortal - it's easier for me to sympathise with his plight, and I just cared about him more. It probably also helped that he was silent most of the time, rather than flinging darkness around melodramatically all the time like Naha. I also enjoyed his relationship with Oree. I personally think they shouldn't have made Itempas leave Oree. That was a foreseeable flaw with their punishment and too bad for them that they got it wrong, they should just live with their mistake...who does that sound like? It appears I am more of an Itempas than a Nahadoth. I would have liked to know a bit more about Oree's magic eyes, and what it meant with the way they were covered up. It made them sound almost like they were flower buds, which I thought might lead somewhere interesting with Enefa. I found it interesting seeing T'Vril again although it came with an unwelcome reminder of just how sadistic the Arameri are. The godlings were also fun, they had that same childlike sense of fun that made Sieh such a great character in Book 1. Looking forward to see what book 3 has in store.
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Post by lojzelote on Oct 14, 2017 5:12:05 GMT -5
Story
1. What were the themes of the book? Do you feel they were adequately explored? Were they brought to life in a cliche or in a unique manner?Redemption and its limits? It’s a subject that I find intriguing. 2. What did you think of the structure and style of the writing?Although it was also first person, I found the narrative voice much more vivid than in the previous book. 3. What scene resonated most with you personally in either a positive or negative way? Why?Itempas getting screwed by the Order Keepers and the New Lights. Some people need taste of their own medicine. Madding's death was pretty bad. I felt as shocked as Oree when he didn't get up. And the idea of redemption: 4. Were there any particular quotes that stood out to you? Why?Characters5. Which character resonated the most with you? Why?Oree was lovely. I had a much easier time of liking her than in Yeine’s case. Itempas was very interesting. He’s awful most of time, but he’s not irredeemable. Hope we will get more Hado in the third book as well. 6. Which character resonated the least with you? Why?Dateh and Serymn. Just like Scimina; too one-dimensional and evil. 7. Did you think the characters were well developed?In Oree’s and Itempas‘ case, yes. 8. How does the way the characters see themselves, differ from how others see them? How do you see the various characters?The disparity is most obvious in Itempas‘ case. It must have been a shock for him to find out that at least a fraction of his believers worships him because he’s a killer. But, honestly, he is a murderer. Ending 9. Did you think the ending was appropriate? How would you have liked to have seen the ending go?I liked it. I felt bad for Oree, but Itempas deserved it. Yeine and Nahadoth stepping in was unfair, but I agree with Sieh that he got terribly lucky to have met Oree of all people. I guess that the appropriatedness of the ending hangs on whether one believes that a sanction should not only rehabilitate, but also punish. I think I belong in the latter camp, at least in this case. It seems unjust to me that the Enefadeh would have suffered thousands of years at the hands of total sociopaths, while Itempas would have got off after a decade of being free and getting taken in for no reason by an altruistic person like Oree. He might have met Yeine’s terms, but her terms were far too lenient in the first place imho. 10. How have the characters changed by the end of the book?Well, obviously Itempas changed a lot, because he’s come to love a demon lol. Overall
14. What did you think about the author's writing style (prose, pacing, etc)?It’s hard to describe, but it was easier for me to envision the setting. Maybe it was the author’s intention, but in the previous book Sky felt sterile and underpopulated. In this books it feels much more like a city with life in it. In response to 14. that is because Sky the city was not really featured in the first book. We only got Sky the Palace, which was populated solely by Arameri of a greater or lesser degree. Sky the City could very well have been as lively as Shadow. Although, I think the presence of the Godlings and the many different cults/religious groups and the widespread use of magic in Shadow do make it very lively and almost a character in its own right (kind of like other urban fantasy novels, e.g. Neverwhere, where the city-setting becomes its own character, or even Kings Landing in asoiaf). just finished the book tonight, will collect my thoughts and post something semi-coherent later Yeah, I believe it was even lampshaded a couple of times. In Book 1 Yeine wanted to meet more important people, and she was bewildered when she was told that Dekarta, Scimina, and Relad are all the people that matter. We never even glimpse the other "highbloods". From among servants, there was only T´vrill. Then the night before the ceremony she realized that the palace is crowded with nobility, but she never noticed them to arrive, because she was too buzy with other things.
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Post by lojzelote on Oct 14, 2017 6:33:23 GMT -5
I just finished this one this week. I have to say I enjoyed it a lot more than Book 1. Like lojzelote , I found Oree a much more likeable character than Yeine. Maybe it was because of the way Jemisin had to describe her perceptions in such detail to convey her blindness and magical sight, but I felt a lot more connected to her. I also like Itempas/Shiny a lot more than Nahadoth. I think it's because of Itempas basically being a mortal - it's easier for me to sympathise with his plight, and I just cared about him more. It probably also helped that he was silent most of the time, rather than flinging darkness around melodramatically all the time like Naha. I also enjoyed his relationship with Oree. I personally think they shouldn't have made Itempas leave Oree. That was a foreseeable flaw with their punishment and too bad for them that they got it wrong, they should just live with their mistake...who does that sound like? It appears I am more of an Itempas than a Nahadoth. I would have liked to know a bit more about Oree's magic eyes, and what it meant with the way they were covered up. It made them sound almost like they were flower buds, which I thought might lead somewhere interesting with Enefa. I found it interesting seeing T'Vril again although it came with an unwelcome reminder of just how sadistic the Arameri are. The godlings were also fun, they had that same childlike sense of fun that made Sieh such a great character in Book 1. Looking forward to see what book 3 has in store. Yup. The somewhat detached narration didn´t endear me to Yeine overmuch, but I understand why it would be that way - she is either dead or she is a goddess at the time when she tells the story. The problem I had with Yeine in general was that her background had these unique features like her being a chieftain and coming from a misandrist society - but I felt that none of that portrayed how her character was portrayed. Plus, I didn´t even get to know her properly. For example, how much of her killing Kurue was Yeine´s true personality and how much of it was Enefa´s influence? We know that Yeine had been trained to kill, but would she had been able to kill a person with a smile on her face in such a soothing manner? Personally I found that scene pretty disturbing, although I think that what Jemisin meant to convey was that Yeine doesn´t act out of spite, but because it was justice or some such. But, if she acted angry or judgemental, it would have felt more human to me. That last bit may be intended dubiousness, but nevertheless I think that it is a problem if I am not able to tell what the protagonist of the novel was truly like before she became a goddess. OTOH I am more or less sure when I stand with Oree. Itempas. Do I dare to say it? His way of being an unbendable git reminds me of Stannis. I´m not sure I like him, but I certainly like reading about him. I believe it was wrong to change the terms during his punishment when he was near meeting them. Imho Yeine should not have added her condition about Itempas being released sooner if he learns to love humans. He put the Enefadeh through enslavement and torture in mortal bodies for thousands of years, so he should spend thousands of years as a mortal as well... at least in his case serving humanity wouldn´t translate to enslavement. In comparison he would still have gotten off better than his victims. And if it came to it, Yeine and Nahadoth could have chosen to shorten his sentence after a couple of centuries. Another thing is how Itempas and Nahadoth would get along once Oree died and Itempas returned to the Gods´s Realm. Depending on how much they would come into contact, it may really be better to wait a bit longer until Nahadoth deflates and heals some more. On Nahadoth: I wonder how much we really know the real Nahadoth. Most of what we see of him in Book 1 is trough Yeine´s eyes, and of course he has a soft spot for her and wants her to like him because she is important for his plan and reminds him of Enefa. From what we see of Enefa´s memories, he appears... much more carefree, much less angry? At least that was my impression. In Book 1 he says to Yeine that once he´s free he will choose he will shape him, and we actually see him several times changing his physical appearance according to the expectations of people near him. In Book 2 Yeine tells him that he doesn´t want to be like people imagine/believe him to be due to the Itempan propaganda, but he answers that he chooses to be angry himself. From what I gather, he does not act bitter and angry solely because he is bitter and angry due to what Itempas and the Arameri had done to him, but in part because he´s by nature exteremely moldable and humans´ believes shape him. If they believe him to be dangerous and evil, he will be inclined to act in dangerous and evil ways. This is a bit of a glitch in regards to the relability of characters, imo. I mean, we can´t really judge Itempas or Nahadoth by mundane standards. Even if they are both mass murderers, the world cannot exist without them. Plus, there´s the question of culpability, since loneliness was apparently Itempas´ antithesis and devastated him in a way that wouldn´t a mortal. That said, it doesn´t fully absolve him either. For that matter, I didn´t understand why he acted as he did with Shahar Arameri. I mean, she killed their son that he had obviously loved. She betrayed him in a far more literal sense than Enefa. Why did he murder his sister and made Shahar the first Lady Arameri? The only scenario that makes sense to me that when Shahar killed their son, he returned to his original view that humans are infestation and she is the worst, but instead of killing her decided to use her as an instrument to make Nahadoth see Enefa and her creation his way. Some more on Nahadoth, I read Shades in Shadows: An Inheritance Triptych, and the first story is the prequel to Book 1 from the Enefadeh´s early years after the Gods´s War. I will put information from there under the spoiler tag. (For that matter, the second story - and probably the third one as well - are spoilerous for the entire trilogy, so don´t read those yet - not like me lol). The first one about Nahadoth is not spoilerific in the same way. But it has a sort of a twist in regards to who Nahadoth is in Book 1. Nahadoth spent the first couple of decades/centruries as a puddle that the Arameri left alone for most part. He was grieving and didn´t communicate much even with Sieh and co, and didnt´t care for anything - not in the depressed way, but he simply could not bring himself to act without someone shaping him/giving him a purpose - or that´s how I undestood it.
Long story short, we discover that the Nahadoth we meet in Book 1 was "contaminated" (that´s what Zhakkarn calls it) by Haan Arameri, a lowblood Arameri relative that hated the Central Family, and who used his superb good looks and wits to murder many of his masters. Haan´s final act in life was to go to Nahadoth and make him an offering of himself in exchange for making the other Arameri´s life hell.
So, much like with Yeine and Enefa, it is doubtful how much Nahadoth is the Nahadoth from Enefa´s memories and how much he is being shaped by Haan. Then again, Enefa was dead when she fused with Yeine, while Nahadoth was not, but the short story makes it clear that he was badly hurt and directionless at the time when Haan came to him to be absorbed.
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Post by dje on Oct 16, 2017 14:32:03 GMT -5
I really liked the story, and loved getting to meet all of the new godlings. I enjoyed the humanization of Itempas, and liked seeing hisinteractions with the other godlings, who clearly knew who he was. I liked the confliction many of them showed towards him, they hated and loved him at the same time. I didn't agree with him having to abandon Oree and his future child as Lojzelote mentioned. Although, I was very glad that Nahadoth finally arrived in the end. I like how it continued the story, but further down the line. I hope the next book does that as well, maybe Itempas' daughter will be the main character. Either way, I am enjoying the series.
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Post by moiaf on Apr 5, 2018 13:06:01 GMT -5
I meant to post that I finished the book about two months ago. This was a very difficult book for me to read, I just couldn't get into it. I need a little time before I can read the last book in this series.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Aug 20, 2018 5:08:36 GMT -5
Anyone who is interested, N.K. Kemisin took the Hugo for best novel for The Stone Sky, Book 3 ofnthe Broken Earth trilogy. That makes her 3/3 for this series, which is well and truly deserved
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Post by moiaf on Aug 21, 2018 11:58:24 GMT -5
Anyone who is interested, N.K. Kemisin took the Hugo for best novel for The Stone Sky, Book 3 ofnthe Broken Earth trilogy. That makes her 3/3 for this series, which is well and truly deserved Wow, that's really impressive. She is a gifted writer.
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Post by atargbyanothername on Aug 21, 2018 13:26:51 GMT -5
Anyone who is interested, N.K. Kemisin took the Hugo for best novel for The Stone Sky, Book 3 ofnthe Broken Earth trilogy. That makes her 3/3 for this series, which is well and truly deserved Wow, that's really impressive. She is a gifted writer. Definitely. It's also nice to have read her earlier stuff as you can really see her growth. It's obviously stuff written by the same person, but the improvement over time is very pleasing to see
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Post by atargbyanothername on Nov 17, 2018 15:15:54 GMT -5
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