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Post by sercreighton on Apr 23, 2018 23:34:36 GMT -5
That's why when even Joff died, Martin decided to portray that in a pretty fucked up way, for us to realize that no matter how much we all hated Joffrey, at the end of the day, he was still just a kid And did anyone feel sorry for Joffrey? I know what intetion from Martin was, but it didn't work. Joffrey was a monster, no one felt sorry for what happened to him. Martin did it much better with Theon, where he did "do you really think this is what you wanted?" point very good. And fans of both the books and the show did experience catharsis when Joffrey died. General opinion in both mediums is that he should have suffered more. Cat's resurrection makes perfect sense within the context of the story, it was foreshadowed since the very beginning There was a way to foreshadow Ned's resurrection as well. But I will argue that the story doesn't need the personification of the horrors of the Red Wedding, or personification of any other tragedy. You can say that I take a dig at Martin as an author often, but he is the reason why we are having this conversation in the first place. Is LSH pointless, or not, does he know what he is doing with her and the rest of the story,... It's hard to know, because the story is not finished. Everyone of us could be both right and wrong. If the story was over, if we saw what he is really going to do with LSH, Dorne, Oldtown, all these minor storylines, maybe I would say that you were right. But my opinion is that the story is not finished for that precise reason, because he doesn't know what to do. For me the fact that he didin't finish the story is a evidence that he doesn't have a clear idea. When he had claer vision, with the first 3 books, everything seemed easy, now he is struggling. You can think I'm wrong, but we will never know. Well it's hard for us to know, I don't think so much for him. For him order has always been a problem. Do you know why Dance was the fifth book and not the 4th book? Meereen, he spent years figuring out the order people should arrive in Meereen, and not all of them have arrived yet in the books. You can take shots at Martin all you want but he is the reason their is a show, and D&D go to him for help not the other way around. People are different, who knows how each person reacts, when Joff died I was giggling, but later I missed the character. It was a brutal death but not horrific, there was no terror involved save for Cersei and Joff. Does LSH have a place in his story? He seems to think so and seems to think it was important and wished the show had done that. I think sometimes with the fantasy aspect of the series, the producers are a bit gun shy. After all most of the stuff cut was fantasy related. As for what was the point of all that Oldtown stuff? What was the point of Dorne without FAegon? That was the oddest choice they have made. But and its no great mystery, but Eurons story revolves around Dany, the Night King and Bloodraven. The very first clue we are given of Euron is his sigil. A red eye, 2 Ravens and a crown. A man who dreams of flying. See Euron is what happens when Bloodraven takes a kid flying and he doesn't become Bran. He created Euron, hence the red and crows, Euron dreamed and Bloodraven came and took him for the test and well... Ooops. Instead of a Bran you got a guy having visions that he doesn't know are visions. Visions of what? All sorts of things, but my guess is and I expressed this to Ran is that Bloodraven has seen the Night King, before he was the Night King. He sees a women as well, but it's not a clear image more like colors in shapes, he sees the gods dead. He I believe is following in the NK's footsteps, but he thinks its future visions of himself. Hard to tell on occasion he says strange things, like " He will have her" when speaking of Dany. He speaks of himself as the Storm. In the end Euron may have a very interesting sub plot. Couldn't be any worse than Dorne, or the House of Black and White. Talk about under whelming. I understand why they focused on Dany, Jon, Cersei and Tyrion, I understand the central plot. But if you are going to do something either do it, or do not, but whatever you do, don't half ass it. The Riverlands, the Vale, Dorne, Meereen, Oldtown, Euron, Stannis, All pretty much half assed. Oldtown right now served no point but to heal Jorah who had a disease he was never suppose to have. Sam and Gilly discover Rhaegar and Ellia split, you got Bran their is no point to that. What did Sam learn? To clean a toilet? Why is that even a scene? The Stannis ending was totally flat, the Riverlands were a major subplot until the red wedding. How do they fix what they cut? Arya kills everyone. The Vale? Is sweet Robin still getting hit with a stick and making noises? They also spent a lot of time adding material for Jon, like Crasters. The stuff I mentioned for old town isn't actually much. You show his sigil on tv, after the opening recap fills in the blank with Bloodraven telling Bran about flying, have Euron mention it. Toss in a half eaten Warlock in a cell, and some blue lipstick and people can do the math. Glass candles, it's a candle, made of glass that shows you things, again not hard to do. Facless men, we as viewers are well awear of them. He wants Dany or show Euron who is not all that interested in Dragons or Dany, changed his mind, now it's Cersei. Wights? What Wights? I am surprised we even have Wight Walkers. Although it appears Cersei will be the real threat with her big Crossbow...again. Let me guess Lena clinches her jaw and talks while grinding her teeth. And yes it's perfectly fine to want to cheer for a character and want good things for characters. It's just not always that easy for them, to happen, but when they happen it can be a spectical. He wants some sense of reality. The end of Game of thrones is like Martin at his best, it's bittersweet, Ned is Dead, Arya is on the run, Sansa is a captive, Danys child is gone, Drogo is dead, the Dothraki have abandoned her but when she steps up out of the Pyre with the Dragons, it's a moment of hope and triumph for her when things were at there worst. The harder it is to get their the more you feel it when it happens.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 24, 2018 22:25:36 GMT -5
Speaking of half assing, here we have an average looking guy with bad hair in a Jerkin that must have belonged to the Mountain cause it clearly desn't fit him. Bt I guess they wanted to cover up his brown over sized pants. Is Jaime the only rich guy who can find an outfit that fits him? Seriously though this is Iron toned Rhaeger? The most handsome man alive? Sorry had the people not seen NKW yet? And that's Lyanna, she's the young lady who won 3 matches in the Tourney of Harrenhal. She looks about as athletic as??? I can't think of any female less athletic looking than here, and she looks nothing like Arya, I mean nothing. Is Rhaegar balding? Could he not find the same comb or brush she used? Looks like cos players at the local park, just terrible. People waited for decades to see this and they toss this lazy excuse for a scene out there.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Apr 24, 2018 22:42:30 GMT -5
sercreightonYeah...the reused Viserys wig. Sitting around for 7 years. I don't really think they put much effort into Rhaegar. Lyanna, I do think Aisling Franciosi looks a bit like Maisie. So I don't think the casting was that bad there.
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Post by sercreighton on Apr 25, 2018 0:31:02 GMT -5
alcasinoroyaleDon't see it with Maisia, looks like her, black and white helps a bit. Someone found Visery's wig crawling around props and shot it. Maisie has a bit of a unique look to her, so I was willing to give some slack, but Lyanna was athletic, swords, and horses and Jousting, this young women does not scream Tom boy, Maisie could always pull that off. Maisie also sort has a I'm trouble sort of attitude and personality. Also not the same girl who gave birth to Jon in season 6. A new conspiracy theory is born, Rhaegar did not marry Lyanna, he thought he was marrying her but turns out, different women. That woman is the frail Ellia Martell. So let it be written, so let it be told.
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Post by nikma on Apr 25, 2018 9:12:06 GMT -5
Is there anything that is not half assed in this show in your opinion?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 9:51:12 GMT -5
Is there anything that is not half assed in this show in your opinion? This thread is specifically for criticism. Feel free to counter with your own points as to why you disagree but please don’t make these kinds of flippant remarks.
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Post by nikma on Apr 25, 2018 10:07:43 GMT -5
Is there anything that is not half assed in this show in your opinion? This thread is specifically for criticism. Feel free to counter with your own points as to why you disagree but please don’t make these kinds of flippant remarks. Well, criticism can be positive as well. I wanted to make my own points, but if you don't like Meereen, Bravos, Dorne, Oldtown, Iron Islands, the Vale, the North,... then it seems that I would have to "defend" almost the entire show if I want to make counter argument.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 11:00:34 GMT -5
alcasinoroyaleDon't see it with Maisia, looks like her, black and white helps a bit. Someone found Visery's wig crawling around props and shot it. Maisie has a bit of a unique look to her, so I was willing to give some slack, but Lyanna was athletic, swords, and horses and Jousting, this young women does not scream Tom boy, Maisie could always pull that off. Maisie also sort has a I'm trouble sort of attitude and personality. Also not the same girl who gave birth to Jon in season 6. A new conspiracy theory is born, Rhaegar did not marry Lyanna, he thought he was marrying her but turns out, different women. That woman is the frail Ellia Martell. So let it be written, so let it be told. Lyanna wasn't a tomboy in the same way Arya is, though. Yes, she is capable and interested in swordplay and jousting as Arya, but she was still willing to play the part of a proper Lady. I think people often mischaracterise Lyanna and focus purely on the Arya similarities, but this is a woman who cried at Rhaegar playing her a song on his harp, fell in love with him and ran away to get married in secret. There is a side to Lyanna that is nothing like Arya.
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Post by Envie on Apr 25, 2018 11:18:58 GMT -5
Lyanna wasn't a tomboy in the same way Arya is, though. Yes, she is capable and interested in swordplay and jousting as Arya, but she was still willing to play the part of a proper Lady. I think people often mischaracterise Lyanna and focus purely on the Arya similarities, but this is a woman who cried at Rhaegar playing her a song on his harp, fell in love with him and ran away to get married in secret. There is a side to Lyanna that is nothing like Arya. Agreed. I was happy with their actor choice for Lyanna. She was probably more feminine than Arya due to hiding most of her skills behind the expected ladylike demeanor as an eligible female lady in House Stark at the time. Arya has had the advantage of being a second daughter in the middle of a bigger family and also running away to learn how to fight and be a faceless man, so of course she's less feminine overall now. Rhaegar actor choice, much less what I expected and the wig didn't help, but whatever, it was such a short scene it doesn't matter in the bigger picture anyway at this point. All they needed him for was to establish that Jon is, in fact, a Targaryen but also a legitimate heir and not a bastard. The scene did fine for that purpose. Besides, terrible wigs are sort of a thing on GoT as every season has at least one.
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Post by sercreighton on May 1, 2018 21:55:59 GMT -5
This thread is specifically for criticism. Feel free to counter with your own points as to why you disagree but please don’t make these kinds of flippant remarks. Well, criticism can be positive as well. I wanted to make my own points, but if you don't like Meereen, Bravos, Dorne, Oldtown, Iron Islands, the Vale, the North,... then it seems that I would have to "defend" almost the entire show if I want to make counter argument. It depends how you look at it. A criticism of part of a plot does not mean an entire story line is bad. Meereen, the Meereen plot was heavily cut, but yeah I would of liked to see Selmy lead the battle of Meereen. Not that I wanted to see guys on stilts like in the books but it had the makings of an epic battle and I like epic battles. Oldtown on the show is almost non existance. I didn't make that happen the show did. It's matter of time. They could of done a more focused plot on a couple of sub plots and spread it out less. I think they occasionally try to do to much and that thins out some sub plots. Bravos is okay but I think they spent a lot of time just getting Arya in the door. It does not make all of Bravos bad, but it's time that could been better used IMO. A lot of the Iron Islands were done well early on, they were building up the plot and then kind of skipped past the bulk of the later parts. What's Eurons motivation? in the books he is complex on the show he is generic. Power and his dick, that's pretty much it. He's not really developed, he's much more generic. You know it doesn't have to be a comparison to the books either. The character of Euron on the show is simply generic. I can forgive the battle of the Meereen, I get it, time and money. They did what they could. The Tyrion Dany stuff after that I thought was really great. It's kind of like the Battle of Highgarden, it's not really a battle, but the stuff with Oleena and Jaime after that was great. Doesn't mean I can't say the battle of Highgarden was blah. Not the same with Euron, who is basically just a talking plot device. Oldtown doesn't really exist here, Sam is there to fix Jorah from a plot device used to seperate him from Dany. I am not even sure it was nessecry. But Sam got some books, Horn hill was actually better than what they gave us with Oldtown. The Vale, the Vale didn't happen, that's a genuine critique. They changed the story, they cut it out. There is no I think it was good, because it didn't happen like Oldtown. They became very brief moments on the show, so it's not like it's a total complaint of 7 seasons. These are specific complaints. The North, what did I say about the North? Originally I had some problems with Jon. At certain times they changed Jons choices to make him mor heroic, smarter, white washed, less complex. But after a time it started to make sense to me. Jon on the show is older, more experienced, not being a teen changes a lot of thing. He goes to Hardhome instead of taking a nap, we actually go to Hardhome, a change I enjoyed. Riverland complaint is not a complaint about the entire story, it's about a later part in the story. The argument that I find some things wrong with some stories does not equal the entirety of the series. That's a simple fallecy, shows been on HBO for 7 years and I covered very little of it. Like Dorne, show Dorne is neither important, or needed. It just wasn't, after Oberyn nothing really mattered there. Just because I enjoy the show desn't mean I can't be honest about parts of it. In the case the show the sum is greater than its parts. As a whole it's a great show I enjoy very much, but that doesn't mean it's perfect.
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Post by sercreighton on May 1, 2018 22:07:11 GMT -5
alcasinoroyale Don't see it with Maisia, looks like her, black and white helps a bit. Someone found Visery's wig crawling around props and shot it. Maisie has a bit of a unique look to her, so I was willing to give some slack, but Lyanna was athletic, swords, and horses and Jousting, this young women does not scream Tom boy, Maisie could always pull that off. Maisie also sort has a I'm trouble sort of attitude and personality. Also not the same girl who gave birth to Jon in season 6. A new conspiracy theory is born, Rhaegar did not marry Lyanna, he thought he was marrying her but turns out, different women. That woman is the frail Ellia Martell. So let it be written, so let it be told. Lyanna wasn't a tomboy in the same way Arya is, though. Yes, she is capable and interested in swordplay and jousting as Arya, but she was still willing to play the part of a proper Lady. I think people often mischaracterise Lyanna and focus purely on the Arya similarities, but this is a woman who cried at Rhaegar playing her a song on his harp, fell in love with him and ran away to get married in secret. There is a side to Lyanna that is nothing like Arya. Disagree Lyanna is very much like Arya, this is from Ned Stark. The difference between Lyanna and Arya started later. Lyanna is older, and had a stable home. She went through puberty. Arya is a little kid when we meet her. Arya may have grown up much like Lyanna in the same enviroment. But Arya's life was heavily disrupted at a very impressionable time. At 13 she won three tills in a tourney. She beat up 3 squires, she dumped a drink on her brothers head at a big dinner party. Sound Arya book and show started showing interest in boys as well, though in her case she kind of dug the Baratheon swag. The differences were created by enviroment but they started out very similar.
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Post by sercreighton on May 1, 2018 22:17:40 GMT -5
Lyanna wasn't a tomboy in the same way Arya is, though. Yes, she is capable and interested in swordplay and jousting as Arya, but she was still willing to play the part of a proper Lady. I think people often mischaracterise Lyanna and focus purely on the Arya similarities, but this is a woman who cried at Rhaegar playing her a song on his harp, fell in love with him and ran away to get married in secret. There is a side to Lyanna that is nothing like Arya. Agreed. I was happy with their actor choice for Lyanna. She was probably more feminine than Arya due to hiding most of her skills behind the expected ladylike demeanor as an eligible female lady in House Stark at the time. Arya has had the advantage of being a second daughter in the middle of a bigger family and also running away to learn how to fight and be a faceless man, so of course she's less feminine overall now. Rhaegar actor choice, much less what I expected and the wig didn't help, but whatever, it was such a short scene it doesn't matter in the bigger picture anyway at this point. All they needed him for was to establish that Jon is, in fact, a Targaryen but also a legitimate heir and not a bastard. The scene did fine for that purpose. Besides, terrible wigs are sort of a thing on GoT as every season has at least one. Actually according to the World book the mad King passed Rhaegar over for Viserys. He was disowned. Viserys made Dany the Princess of Dragonstone, the hereditary seat of the heir apperant. Viserys had no kids at the time, it's actually Strangely competent of him. That's probably not going to be the shows take and little of it matters these days. That revolves around the Iron Throne, and Dany has Come to see there are more important things to deal with. Plus Jon is her new favorite thing, even thou she still has pictures of Drogo all over her trailer.
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Post by Envie on May 2, 2018 8:38:58 GMT -5
Actually according to the World book the mad King passed Rhaegar over for Viserys. He was disowned. Viserys made Dany the Princess of Dragonstone, the hereditary seat of the heir apperant. Viserys had no kids at the time, it's actually Strangely competent of him. That's probably not going to be the shows take and little of it matters these days. That revolves around the Iron Throne, and Dany has Come to see there are more important things to deal with. Plus Jon is her new favorite thing, even thou she still has pictures of Drogo all over her trailer. Well, Daenerys herself noted she always expected to marry Viserys as that's what Targaryens did and he was the only relative she had left alive. Marrying Drogo instead was unexpected. Viserys naming her heir apparent was out of necessity and because he too expected her to be his wife when they took back the seven kingdoms. I think he probably thought the Dothraki were just a disposable army he could get rid of once they got to Westeros and won. He clearly had no idea how powerful Drogo and the Dothraki were at the time he made that choice and used Dany as a bargaining chip. I don't think Viserys was all that competent. He was just greedy and willing to use his sister however it got him what he wanted. He was also being advised by Illyrio (and all those who came before him in their exile journey too) so that may have played a factor in what seemed like competent decision-making but was him being controlled by others while thinking he was making these moves. Viserys was clearly a pawn too. Essos leaders were using him to make a play for Westeros. You're right that little of it matters now anyway and the more intriguing mysteries behind a lot of the plots leading up to Daenerys getting to where she is now will probably remain obscure in the books unless this new Fire and Blood book goes into more detail on the last generation of Targaryens. I tend to think it focuses on the much older dynasty than the recent events, however.
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Post by sercreighton on May 2, 2018 18:25:50 GMT -5
Actually according to the World book the mad King passed Rhaegar over for Viserys. He was disowned. Viserys made Dany the Princess of Dragonstone, the hereditary seat of the heir apperant. Viserys had no kids at the time, it's actually Strangely competent of him. That's probably not going to be the shows take and little of it matters these days. That revolves around the Iron Throne, and Dany has Come to see there are more important things to deal with. Plus Jon is her new favorite thing, even thou she still has pictures of Drogo all over her trailer. Well, Daenerys herself noted she always expected to marry Viserys as that's what Targaryens did and he was the only relative she had left alive. Marrying Drogo instead was unexpected. Viserys naming her heir apparent was out of necessity and because he too expected her to be his wife when they took back the seven kingdoms. I think he probably thought the Dothraki were just a disposable army he could get rid of once they got to Westeros and won. He clearly had no idea how powerful Drogo and the Dothraki were at the time he made that choice and used Dany as a bargaining chip. I don't think Viserys was all that competent. He was just greedy and willing to use his sister however it got him what he wanted. He was also being advised by Illyrio (and all those who came before him in their exile journey too) so that may have played a factor in what seemed like competent decision-making but was him being controlled by others while thinking he was making these moves. Viserys was clearly a pawn too. Essos leaders were using him to make a play for Westeros. You're right that little of it matters now anyway and the more intriguing mysteries behind a lot of the plots leading up to Daenerys getting to where she is now will probably remain obscure in the books unless this new Fire and Blood book goes into more detail on the last generation of Targaryens. I tend to think it focuses on the much older dynasty than the recent events, however. Thing about Fire and Blood is it's not really a story like The blacks and the greens. It's like the world book so essentially Wiki pages told by a Maester with bias, and some art work. World book had some interesting stuff in it but it's not exactly a thrilling read and at times it's just annoying and stupid immersion in wiki pages. It will give stuff like the Kings sworn enemy said the king was bad but Butterfart the court fool claimed he slept with only willing sheep. I'm honestly not hyped about Fire and Blood at all, I think I may get it out of curiosity but it's not at the top of my list of things to do, it's much closer to the bottom.
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