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Post by Envie on Jul 7, 2016 22:58:13 GMT -5
It's all been pointed out here already but this video's pretty good. That's an awesome compilation of great parallels and contrasts, I hadn't seen it before so thanks for posting it here! It also occurred to me while watching Arya slitting Walder Frey's throat at the same time Black Walder slits Catelyn's throat that there's another parallel between Arya and Cersei. Cersei tells Unella she's the last thing she'll see before she dies, and Arya says the same thing to Walder Frey. Arya seems to understand Cersei now ... she's as obsessed with vengeance as Cersei. I am holding out hope for my girl Arya though, she's still in there and she can still be redeemed and live again if reunited with her siblings.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 7, 2016 23:01:14 GMT -5
It's all been pointed out here already but this video's pretty good. That's an awesome compilation of great parallels and contrasts, I hadn't seen it before so thanks for posting it here! It also occurred to me while watching Arya slitting Walder Frey's throat at the same time Black Walder slits Catelyn's throat that there's another parallel between Arya and Cersei. Cersei tells Unella she's the last thing she'll see before she dies, and Arya says the same thing to Walder Frey. Arya seems to understand Cersei now ... she's as obsessed with vengeance as Cersei. I am holding out hope for my girl Arya though, she's still in there and she can still be redeemed and live again if reunited with her siblings. I wonder if Arya used Black Walder's knife btw. She'd already killed him and baked him into a pie after all. So it's possible he used his knife to kill Black Walder's dad just how Black Walder killed her mum.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Jul 11, 2016 9:38:30 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure we had this discussion last year, after Mother Mercy when we noticed that the pattern the Dothraki were making while riding around Dany was similar to the one the Others made at the First of the First Men. Here are the photo comparisons: Episode 1x01: " Winter is Coming" Episode 1x10: " Fire and Blood" Episode 3x01: " Valar Dohaeris" Episode 5x10: " Mother Mercy" (it's hard to see but the are running in the same pattern as the above image. here is the videohttps://youtu.be/qEz1-9moEBQ ). Anywho, even the names of the episodes seem to symbolize something. I forget which behind the episode it was, but in this season D&D talked about the Others and how they weren't really evil but a force of nature a representation of Death itself, that they were created to bring Death. I think we are supposed to draw a connection between this and the humans who consciously bring death and destruction upon their fellow man. So, the Others are a force of nature and in many ways so is Dany (she was born during the worst storm to ever hot Westeros). You mention the quote about bringing the Storm, you know who else said that Euron, before he killed his brother Balon he said: “I am the storm, brother...” I feel like both the Others and Euron are foils of Dany. Euron from what we know in the books wants to bring back the Valyrian culture and is obsessed with Valyaria. Dany for all her claims of being a Valyrian has rejected with her actions their culture, instead of using the dragons to enslave like the Valyarian’s did once upon a time; she uses them to free people. I’m not sure how they will do it on the show but I think Dany will have a very nasty battle with Euron were thing won’t go her way for a while before she is able to kill him. As for the Other, Dany is their foil in that they are representative of cold, death, and darkness and Dany is representative of warmth, life and light (mother). This quote from Dany’s chapter in the House of the Undying is very interesting: I think here the Undying (who I believe are representative of the Others), have been waiting for a long time for Dany, a thousand years I think they say (the Others might have been waiting for something else but along the same lines). They want her life force, what she is and what she represents and try to take it from her but she is saved by Drogon. Looking at the bolded words theses are very symbolic of the ice and fire theme of the story. On another note and around the same vane I was thinking about the scene in the show where the Children of the Forrest stab the young man through the heart and create the Nights King or Death Incarnate and how this has parallels with Azur Ahai. The basic story of Azur Ahai was that he needed to forge a weapon, a sword in order to defeat the Others. He attempted to forge the sword twice without success and on the third try he used the life force of his wife in order to create Lightbringer (used death to create life). Two stabbings to the heart, one of them created Death the other was created to fight death and bring back Light (life). You can also tie this in with the Quarthian story of the first birth of the dragons but that's more of a book discussion. ETA: I haven't tied Jon to all of this, but he's obviously part of it. He himself died and came back to life. Sorry I try not to mix in to much book talk here, it's just hard because it's the source material and it often helps connect the dots. You know D&D are trying to repeat what Martin said about evil, you know the philosophical debate. Is evil evil? What is evil? But back Martin into a corner and he kind of gives way on characters like the Mountain, Ramsey, Joff, etc... They're not evil they are just really bad people. I think the Night's King is as bad as it gets. No worries, it's hard not to use the books because as you say it helps us connect the dots. The whole not evil shit doesn't make sense to me as we know some of those human characters are fucking evil. What I meant about the White Walker is of course they are bad, but they were made to be that way (by creatures who should have known better) and so therefor they choose to do bad things more because that's what they were made to do more than because they want to hurt people for their own gratification, at least this is true for the Wights. The Others might be a bit more complicated. Poorquentyn (I mentioned him to you) writes a very interesting ASoIaF related blog and has written extensively about Euron. He posits that the the Brow's Eye is trying to hijack both the Valyrian ancestry (that's why he wants Dany) as well as the apocalypse that the Other are bringing. That's why he stolen all those religious figures, he was the be the ultimate god (the guy is megalomaniacle to the nth degree). I think I'm pretty on board with this with some caveat's I do agree with you about him being a greenseer and about him being representative of the Bloodstone emperor. As you mentioned on another thread this world seems to run on a cycle of sorts. Yes to all this and I so want to see those visions, like yesterday.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 11, 2016 11:38:47 GMT -5
Courtesy of Alt-Shift-X (who probably found it on reddit) - here's an interesting set of parallels/irony: Walder got his throat slit for having Catelyn's throat slit at the Red Wedding. Tywin Lannister was shot to death by a cross-bow, the same as were used on Robb at the Red Wedding. Roose Bolton was stabbed to death the same as he stabbed Robb at the Red Wedding. So basically karma repaid each of them in a similar way.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 11, 2016 11:40:50 GMT -5
Courtesy of Alt-Shift-X (who probably found it on reddit) - here's an interesting set of parallels/irony: Walder got his throat slit for having Catelyn's throat slit at the Red Wedding. Tywin Lannister was shot to death by a cross-bow, the same as were used on Robb at the Red Wedding. Roose Bolton was stabbed to death the same as he stabbed Robb at the Red Wedding. So basically karma repaid each of them in a similar way. Fuck yeah! #theredweddingavenged
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 11, 2016 12:08:11 GMT -5
Fuck yeah! #theredweddingavenged I love the irony that both Tywin and Roose were killed by their own sons. And then Walder ATE his own sons ... (thanks Arya!)
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 11, 2016 15:47:42 GMT -5
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Post by moiaf on Jul 11, 2016 16:02:23 GMT -5
This is so perfect.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 12, 2016 2:56:35 GMT -5
Or maybe Joff just got confused and thought Tyrion's name was Neil.
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Post by sercreighton on Jul 15, 2016 1:33:49 GMT -5
Sorry I try not to mix in to much book talk here, it's just hard because it's the source material and it often helps connect the dots. You know D&D are trying to repeat what Martin said about evil, you know the philosophical debate. Is evil evil? What is evil? But back Martin into a corner and he kind of gives way on characters like the Mountain, Ramsey, Joff, etc... They're not evil they are just really bad people. I think the Night's King is as bad as it gets. Oh we totally agree on the Undying, though I would actually include the 13 in that, and the idea of the Milk men or their symbolism, the pale men with water in their veins. The giant floating heart in a blue cold room of undead was kind of a dead give away. It ended well too, Blue guys yeah we have her. Blue guys meet drogon Drogon wins. And who else is connected with the number 13? The show Night King is not the same man as the 13th LC of the NW, but look back at the scene where he is first introduced. That's right, there are 12 WW standing behind him, for a total of 13. Oh sure the last hero, I mean the Others, the 13th LC, totally tied to 13. Dany does not get along with 13 in the books. Though I made a mistake, it is the Pureborn who are said to have water in their veins and the blue slippers. Xaro is one on the 13 and of course he sought to marry her because that's what the head of the 13 really wants, and he is totally not getting it, just like Xaro. You know moiaf touches on the question of Dany north of the wall and the more I think about it the more it becomes a possibility. When you look at Qarth you get a lot of similar aspects to the Others. The verbiage tied to the Pureborn, the use of Milk Men for both, the Undying, the giant blue heart, magic, the repetitive use of blue, the visions, and so on. Well how did Dany get to Qarth? She crossed a great waste, the red waste, maybe she needs to cross the blue waste in the future, or a white waste. There is a lot of symbolism in that waste. A city pale as the moon, and lovely as a maid. But also a city of bones and Ghosts, but Dany fears no Ghosts. You also have the Dragon bones and spears topped with skulls. It's also not the only red sands marked by spears and a dead dragon said to be large enough to swallow a horse. It also follows an interesting trend with Martin and Dany's fruit trees. The house with the red door and it's lemon tree, the first city she actually rules Vaes Tolloro and it's Peach trees, and Meereen and it's persimmon tree. Martin is a tricky duck that's for sure.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 16, 2016 16:16:45 GMT -5
Oh fuck, going to the godswood after taking a man's life.
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Post by Envie on Jul 16, 2016 17:08:33 GMT -5
Oh fuck, going to the godswood after taking a man's life. And in the first scene, Catelyn comes to try and talk Ned out of going to King's Landing which leads to so much pain for Sansa... where in the second, Petyr Baelish is trying to talk Sansa into going back (as his Queen).
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 19, 2016 16:05:51 GMT -5
Looking towards Westeros.
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on Jul 19, 2016 18:14:26 GMT -5
Looking towards Westeros. Hey you did some of my homework for me, thanks! I'm working on the last part (Targaryen) of my symbolism and foreshadowing from the premiere episode and this is a nice addition to Dany's theme of wishing to be more than she was (property) and probably anywhere else than she was at the time. "Looking towards Westeros" works. My how much our little girl has grown up, eh?
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 19, 2016 18:47:55 GMT -5
I don't know if this worked, nor if it fits, but the weirwood that Benjen left Bran and Meera between was the same weirwood that Jon Snow and Sam pledged their Night's Watch vows before.
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