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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2016 15:32:04 GMT -5
Lalalala not reading @roose's spoiler. But I'm glad you liked it. I have tickets for Friday. Can't wait.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2016 14:11:04 GMT -5
WELL I'm fresh out the cinema from seeing Rogue One in a virtually empty cinema (maybe 3 other people there - wise decision to go at 2:30 in the afternoon ) and I thought it was good! I'd probably rank it on par with Force Awakens. I think it's kinda uneven for a while towards the start but the last act NAILS IT. Most of these sorts of big blockbuster movies fall apart in their third act so it's incredibly nice to see one that doesn't. As expected, the effects are gorgeous and used ... in interesting ways (more under spoiler). So the pacing at the beginning is really my only problem with the movie. More below: Obviously we know what the movie's about, how it ends, who survives, etc, so the main thing that drives this movie are the characters. Initially, I wasn't particularly thrilled by them, mainly because the rushed pace didn't really give enough time to stop and actually show you who these characters are and develop them. Once it did that though (after Eadu probably), they grew on me enough to care about them when they died. So here's the (new) characters in order of where I'd personally rank them: (I had to look up their names - in the movie we only heard them through really gruff voices - so there's links if you forget who someone is) K-2SO: He stole the whole goddamn movie. Like HK-47 from KOTOR but probably better imo. Near enough every laugh I had in the movie was from him. His death hit me the hardest, especially cause he was first down. The only person a Stormtrooper ever killed Director Krennic: Well I was not expecting for Krennic to be so "sympathetic". Maybe that's not the right word - he is the man responsible for a machine which destroys planets after all - but from that first moment when he was effectively demoted up to his death via Death Star made me feel really sorry for him throughout. Also getting shot twice in basically the same place can't be nice. Jyn Erso: Now I was worried we were just gonna get another Rey (not that Rey's bad, but repetition is never a good path) but I'm pleased to say Jyn was different. She was confident, but not arrogant. Smart, but not a know-it-all genius. They got the balance just right. And Felicity Jones acted the shit out of it. She really sold me on a young woman seeing her father for the first time in 15 years and when he died she brought it out again. Chirrut Îmwe: Not as much Chirrut as I was hoping/expecting but while he was onscreen he was certainly one to watch. Treating the Force as a religion without being a Jedi was a unique move which they managed to pull off. His death was the most brutal and his last words were too much for me Cassian Andor: I didn't like Cassian at first - I thought he was just a bit of a dick honestly. But when they left Eadu and he gave his little speech about how it's not just some war; some game: it's his life, that's really the moment when he stopped acting "like a Stormtrooper" as Jyn put it. Bodhi Rook: More Bodhi in the movie than the trailers made out. In fact, take him out and you don't have a movie! It was nice to have this little guy sort of stumbling his way around, making it up as he goes. There just wasn't much else to him though. Baze Malbus: I spent most of the movie forgetting Baze was there. He just wasn't very significant and I wanted more of him. But again, his last moment during/after Chirrut's death killed me inside. "I am one with the Force, the Force is with me." Saw Gerrera: (Not exactly "new" but fuck it) I knew Saw would die on Jedha. The trailers didn't show him anywhere else other than in his little hideout. So my problem isn't with his screentime; it's with him. I didn't believe it was the Saw I knew from Clone Wars. I get that time changes people, absolutely, but he was just a little too different for my liking. Galen Erso: Meh. Not really much to say about Galen. He was good I guess, but nothing special. CAMEOS: Well they really went all out with these for sure First off is Vader obviously. I wasn't expecting much of him. He's not in it much but I hope people don't compare this to the Joker from Suicide Squad. The trailers didn't promise he'd have a big role, and he didn't. It's more like Luke from Force Awakens but obviously more. His last scene, slaughtering the rebels, is so breathtaking and I think may be my favourite Vader scene .. ever. Also: his first scene on the lava planet - I wondered if that was Mustafar? Bit weird living on the planet where you killed your wife and became horribly disfigured, no? I'd read earlier that they were trying to remake Peter Cushing with CG but they couldn't find any shots of his legs from ANH so they gave up. Guess not. Given that he isn't actually there to film they did a great job. It was quite obvious to me, but I think that if anyone didn't know Cushing was dead, they might not realise he's just CG. Speaking of CGI, Leia! That was legitimately a surprise! Really nice way to end the movie. And of course, it can't be Star Wars without C-3PO and R2 lurking about That one was unnecessary but not unwelcome. Great to see Jimmy Smits come back, even if not for very much. I LOVED his little Kenobi/Leia reference. Also nice to see that the actress for Mon Mothma came back even though her scene in Revenge was deleted. That's commitment! I laughed way too hard at the Gold and Red leaders. Literally using footage from the trench run was hilarious and I loved it! Here's a little thing that sneaked under my radar: Ian McElhinney (Barristan) played General Dodonna: the old guy from ANH. Guess I was too excited by Smits that I didn't even notice. And the guys from the Mos Easley cantina! They looked younger! Obviously they made it off Jedda! The short version: Good cast. Nice cameos. Good movie despite early pacing troubles. I am a nerd. I feel like I should rank the movies for future reference (and also to be judged) 1) Empire Strikes Back 2) A New Hope 3) The Force Awakens* 4) Rogue One* 5) Revenge of the Sith* 6) Return of the Jedi 7) Attack of the Clones 8) Phantom Menace *These 3 are interchangeable for me. Too close to call
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Post by sercreighton on Dec 17, 2016 0:24:12 GMT -5
No spoilers, just got back from Rouge one. As has been pointed out it starts out a little choppy as they are trying to squeeze in a lot, but it develops nicely into a climactic ending. So the idea from rouge one comes from a small toss away line in New Hope, the faceless rebels are given a face and names. And I thin that is a little bit of the problem in the beginning for me, I felt no attachment it did not have the traditional open. But as the movie moved along the characters began to grow on me. As did the rebels, I think one of the high points of the movie is that it set out to be a back ground story to enrich the star wars universe and I think it did that rather well. New Hope is actually better because of this movie, it had less popcorn flick and more depth and weight to it than most Star Wars films save maybe Jedi. Force Awakens is a very different movie from this, this is much darker and grittier.
It takes you all over the Star Wars Universe, and expands it. I liked the idea of the movie and I liked the movie a lot more than I thought I would. I was almost resisting it in the beginning. Donnie Yen is sure to become a long time fan favorite along with Wen and K-2SO.
I still feel the first act is choppy but it's weird I was sort of like blah in the beginning, but by the end I found myself caught up in. I did not initially like Jen, but in the end I cared about the character, and she really develops, same for Cas, I did not care for him much but towards the end you start to understand him and what he has been through. The mix in the good and bad of he Rebels, the darker side of war, not the normal sort of neat and clean battles we see in Star Wars. The politics of Galaxy and the rebels comes into play, most of the cast did a really good job.
Some of the best parts for me were the transformation of Cas from Rouge to Rebel, it may not seem like much and it never really had to be stated, she transitioned smoothly into someone who cared and it made sense. You saw some the grittier rebels go from near Dark agents with a purpose to Hero's with a cause.
One thing I found interesting again was the Death Star, after Awakens people were just kind of like oh Star Killer base, plot device. Which it was, but not so here with the Deathstar. They managed to give the Deathstar a sort of personality. It was everything Star Killer was not, it was intimidating thanks to great screen shots of it. It had more depth, more purpose, it did less than super weapon in the series in this movie but in this case less was more. They made it make more sense, they gave the flaw meaning, and they gave it a commander with the gravitas it needs and deserves. The return of Peter Cushing, who is dead and yet still awesome. I think what powers the Death Star also added depth and back ground to it, though I will not give that a way.
I liked it better than The Force Awakens but it's a very different type of movie even though some of the themes are the same and the universe is the same. The Force awakens had a lot of the feels and reminiscing, nostalgia. But this had more weight for me, it felt like more was on the line even though I new where the story was headed. It had much better villains than the Force awakens and Jones gave a better performance. It also had a much better battle scene. I put up with there with a New Hope, though New Hope was probably better, it's weird Hope and Rouge One sort of work really well in tandem. I was also glad there were no Jedi in the movie to come running to the rescue. This movie never wanted to go there this was about the hard working Joe's of the Rebel alliance.
And again and since it is already spoiled there is a huge difference from Vader and Tarkin, and those two Nit Wits from force awakens. The Vader scenes are awesome and Cushing is a guy you can see as the intelligent, commanding, charismatic leader you would have commanding your army. He always comes off as the smartest guy in the room. Rather than a Ginger who appears to be constipated and having a temper tantrum and wanna be Vader.
Even though I am only one person I give it two thumbs up. I can do that, I have two of them.
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Post by sercreighton on Dec 17, 2016 0:32:34 GMT -5
Hopefully she's better than she was in Terminator. It would also be cool if she played a Twi'lek or something. I would rather have her as another species and the inclusion of Sana, but this makes me concerned that they scrapped the idea of having Sana in this entirely. That would be a real shame. I haven't seen the newest Terminator, but I've heard from multiple people she was the least of that movie's problems. They haven't made a good one since T2, imo. Anyway, you don't need to be Meryl Streep to be in SW. There's been some horrendous acting in both the OT and the prequels. It's not really what SW is known for. She was absolutely the least of the Movie's Problems. Arnold gave it a decent go as well. See there is a reason you don't cast Jai Courtney for anything, he makes everything bad. Yet Hollywood keeps trying to make him happen. The plot is Dog shit and the dialogue is often brutal. Take Sophie, I think she is a decent actress she did not come off well in X-Men though because that movie blew chunks. Kit the Gladiator? I think Harrington still has nightmares about that movie.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 1:28:35 GMT -5
So Rogue One is really good! The action is intense as hell, the beach battle at the end is gorgeous, and a certain Vader scene about made me geek out in the theater! That said, I completely disagree that it's better than TFA. The characters are a bit thin other than Jyn (& Rey>>>Jyn). Also the score sorely missed John Williams. Other than that it's damn good though. Well done Disney. 2 for 2.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 1:37:46 GMT -5
Oh and I love that Jyn's dad put the design flaw in the Death Star! One less thing for people to nitpick about the OT.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 5:59:31 GMT -5
I saw Rogue One yesterday and I have to agree with Nic. It's a good movie but not as good as The Force Awakens IMO. I like how dark it was and the fact that everyone dies. This is so refreshing for such a huge blockbuster. It tied in perfectly with A New Hope. This was finally the prequel the original trilogy deserved. The action was fantastic as well and it was the right decision to not go overboard with the cameos. It's a movie about the rebels and what they did. Nevertheless, that one Vader scene (you'll know which one) is the highlight of the entire movie even though it could have been a few seconds longer. Now to what I disliked: as almost all of you mentioned, I think the beginning was choppy. There was too much going on and they jumped from one scene to another without enough exposition. That's this movie's biggest flaw: there is not enough exposition. I was almost bored but then after 20 minutes or so the movie started to improve and the last act finished really, really strong. However, the main reason why it is not as good as The Force Awakens is simple for me: I did not care enough about the characters. When you don't have enough exposition in your script, it's really hard to get to know (and love) the characters. Who are they? What do they want? Why should we care? They started to grow on me as the movie progressed but I remember walking out of The Force Awakens and thinking "man, I LOVE Rey, Finn, Poe, BB-8 and Kylo." That did not happen here.
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Post by konradsmith on Dec 17, 2016 6:05:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 7:16:01 GMT -5
I feel like it's a bit unfair to compare Rogue One to Force Awakens. They're both incredibly different to each other. TFA was very light-hearted (more jokes than any other SW movie!) whereas this one seemed grittier, more grounded, focused. I also thought this in one was much more thematic. It's not something I realised when I left the cinema; I had to think about it a bit more. Before the films release, I thought all the talk of "it's a war movie" was just a way of branding it differently from the main saga, but after thinking about it more more, they're absolutely spot on. A lot of that lies in the characters. Now they're not all particularly well-developed (the gun guy, the pilot, Saw Gererra, to name a few) but there are characters in this who are far more layered than the likes of Finn or Poe (the latter of whom may as well be a cardboard cut-out he's so 2D). Cassian, for example. From his very first scene, you see he's complicated, he's willing to do what needs to be done regardless of mortality. And his little argument with Jyn in the U-Wing after Eadu was a great turning point for both of them. She compared him to just being a mindless Stormtrooper (kinda similar to Finn, but not completely out of nowhere) and he reminded her that the war is not a game; some people live, fight and die for the Rebellion so it's not just some hobby or way to fill your time if you're bored. It's his life. As for the villains, Krennic may not have as many layers as Kylo, but he only really gets more because of his family. Krennic has no secret Rebellion father (from what we know!) so he's immediately at a disadvantage. His development comes from his interactions with the other Imperials. Constantly looked down on by his superiors, desperate for recognition from the Emperor. It may just be blind devotion but you can tell there's something more than that. The Empire is his life. He wants to sit at the table with other senior officers in ANH but through no fault of his own it is denied to him. And towards the end, when he's lying injured on the tower and looks up to see even his own creation looking down on him. That genuinely made me feel sorry for him, more than I ever have for the likes of Vader or Kylo.
Music-wise, I think Nic's right. It doesn't really stick with me. There's little in the way of memorable. To this day I can still remember Rey's theme, the First Order theme, the music at the end when she climbs the steps. I think it was a mistake not inserting the trailer music in there at some point (the one I fawned over a few pages back). Quite disappointed with that aspect.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 7:16:41 GMT -5
The short version: I'm still a nerd
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 9:45:44 GMT -5
Not sure I agree about TFA being "lighthearted." Kylo Ren killing Han (his own father) was some pretty dark shit. It got to me far more than anything in Rogue One. Also, Kylo Ren>Krennic & BB-8>K-2SO.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 11:01:23 GMT -5
Not sure I agree about TFA being "lighthearted." Kylo Ren killing Han (his own father) was some pretty dark shit. It got to me far more than anything in Rogue One. Also, Kylo Ren>Krennic & BB-8>K-2SO. I meant moreso towards the beginning. A lot of what Finn said was jokey and quippy, and the same with Poe. BB-8's cute and all, but I laughed at every single thing K-2 said and nobody else in Star Wars even comes close to that
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Post by sercreighton on Dec 17, 2016 17:00:03 GMT -5
So Rogue One is really good! The action is intense as hell, the beach battle at the end is gorgeous, and a certain Vader scene about made me geek out in the theater! That said, I completely disagree that it's better than TFA. The characters are a bit thin other than Jyn (& Rey>>>Jyn). Also the score sorely missed John Williams. Other than that it's damn good though. Well done Disney. 2 for 2. You know I forgot that about the score, it did miss, but I think the movies come down to taste and mood. I have not had a desire to see Force Awakens again, while I would see Rouge one just for the third act again which was by far the strongest act. Rey never did anything for me I found her a bit weepy. I thought Ridley was fine but I felt the movie was lighter as a whole. She was at her best with Finn early and I liked Boyega a lot. The Vader scene was just awesome. Rey and Jyn are not that far off in terms of story, an orphaned Rouge and an Orphaned scrapper. I felt the characters were thin till the third act in Rouge one when the plot started to bring everything home. Kylo, just reminded me of what happens when a special snowflake becomes a Sith. And still a Wanna be Vader, while we got Vader in Rouge One and 5 Minutes of him his worth 3 Movies of Kylo. I have seen Kylo's role before his Name was Anakin in Episode 3. Or the Vader everyone hated. I liked Director Orson he hit slimy politician very well. Of course having Tarkin and Vader in the movie is like hello, even if Tarkin is CGI, the shit they are doing in movies these days. I also loved the Death Star the final shot with it coming up over the Horizon, with the clouds and everything. What a shitty feeling for the rebels. Like in The Force Awakens I just did not like Rey being able to beat Kylo even if he was injured. Zero training, none. And she handled him. To much of a leap for me in the world of Buddhist Samurai space magicians. But that's me I liked the Force Awakens I had a good time when I saw it, I think it's a good movie, but not exactly my taste I kept feeling like things were missing. Like a feeling, I don't know exactly, and I felt that way through a lot of the Force awakens till the third act. Can't recapture your childhood I guess, but in that third act it felt really Star Wars to me. The Force Awakens made me feel like wow I got old and this next Gen is not as good as the first Gen. Part of it is Vader, he adds so much weight to a movie, one of the great movie villains of all time. I felt none of that in the Force Awakens, Kylo is conflicted and a turd. So whinny. Seeing Ford was great but well, Turd alert. And Death Star felt like more of a presence here than Starkiller which was just like yeah yeah bigger Death star. People made fun of Star Killer base, the Death Star is currently trending and people want to build one. I would say for me it goes New Hope, Empire, Rouge One, and then the Force Awakens. Yes I like New Hope better than Empire. I can say Empire is the better movie but I still like the original New Hope. Not the CGI updated piece of crap they re-released. I think Rouge one could of used more time in editing, and the Original score.
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Post by sercreighton on Dec 17, 2016 17:05:58 GMT -5
I feel like it's a bit unfair to compare Rogue One to Force Awakens. They're both incredibly different to each other. TFA was very light-hearted (more jokes than any other SW movie!) whereas this one seemed grittier, more grounded, focused. I also thought this in one was much more thematic. It's not something I realised when I left the cinema; I had to think about it a bit more. Before the films release, I thought all the talk of "it's a war movie" was just a way of branding it differently from the main saga, but after thinking about it more more, they're absolutely spot on. A lot of that lies in the characters. Now they're not all particularly well-developed (the gun guy, the pilot, Saw Gererra, to name a few) but there are characters in this who are far more layered than the likes of Finn or Poe (the latter of whom may as well be a cardboard cut-out he's so 2D). Cassias, for example. From his very first scene, you see he's complicated, he's willing to do what needs to be done regardless of mortality. And his little argument with Jyn in the U-Wing after Eadu was a great turning point for both of them. She compared him to just being a mindless Stormtrooper (kinda similar to Finn, but not completely out of nowhere) and he reminded her that the war is not a game; some people live, fight and die for the Rebellion so it's not just some hobby or way to fill your time if you're bored. It's his life. As for the villains, Krennic may not have a son many layers as Kylo, but he only really gets more because of his family. Krennic has no secret Rebellion father (from what we know!) so he's immediately at a disadvantage. His development comes from his interactions with the other Imperials. Constantly looked down on by his superiors, desperate for recognition from the Emperor. It may just be blind devotion but you can tell there's something more than that. The Empire is his life. He wants to sit at the table with other senior officers in ANH but through no fault of his own it is denied to him. And towards the end, when he's lying injured on the tower and looks up to see even his own creation looking down on him. That genuinely made me feel sorry for him, more than I ever have for the likes of Vader or Kylo.
Music-wise, I think Nic's right. It doesn't really stick with me. There's little in the way of memorable. To this day I can still remember Rey's theme, the First Order theme, the music at the end when she climbs the steps. I think it was a mistake not inserting the trailer music in there at some point (the one I fawned over a few pages back). Quite disappointed with that aspect. Hey leave Finn alone. Kidding I like Finn but I understand what you are saying. As for the bolded I felt the exact same way the movie starts sinking in after you left.
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Post by lordcarson on Dec 21, 2016 10:15:25 GMT -5
I'll write more later but for the first attempt at a Star Wars Story, that was fucking well done. CHOPPER AND THE GHOST MADE IT IN OH MY GOODNESS
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