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Post by Envie on Jul 11, 2016 13:07:35 GMT -5
The Wolf and The LionRe-Watch Date: Saturday, July 30th 2016. IMDB Page: www.imdb.com/title/tt1829964/?ref_=ttep_ep5Runtime: 54 minutes Release date: May 15, 2011 Incensed over news of Daenerys' alliance with the Dothrakis, Robert orders a pre-emptive strike on the Targaryens that drives a wedge in his relationship with Ned. A captive Tyrion helps Catelyn, but receives a cold reception at the Eyrie from her sister. Sansa is charmed by the dashing Ser Loras Tyrell, a.k.a. the Knight of Flowers. Arya overhears a plot against her father.
* NOTE: Please wait until the day of the re-watch to begin the discussion so that everyone has time to join in once they've watched since we're all in different time-zones and parts of the world.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 30, 2016 13:22:43 GMT -5
Oh I had forgotten this episode! So much to enjoy in this one:
"Go get the breastplate stretcher!"
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 31, 2016 3:45:14 GMT -5
Loras's s1 hair.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 31, 2016 3:49:51 GMT -5
Damn them Hill Tribe guys came out of nowhere. I remember watching this for the first time and having no fucking idea who they were. I still appreciated getting two action scenes in a row, mind you. But I didn't exactly get what was up.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 31, 2016 4:54:29 GMT -5
The lovely Emily Diamond who caught Jory's eye is the best of LF's girls bar-none. A pity she was only in 103 and 105 and never featured again. Of course no one caught Jory's eye quite like Jaime did...
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 31, 2016 10:37:33 GMT -5
Damn them Hill Tribe guys came out of nowhere. I remember watching this for the first time and having no fucking idea who they were. I still appreciated getting two action scenes in a row, mind you. But I didn't exactly get what was up. It was a surprising scene, even upon re-watch - I'd forgotten about it and how well done it was for such a short sequence of fighting. Bronn's ability here became immediately apparent with the way he pretty much handled the entire fight. I especially liked the immediate rapport between Bronn and Tyrion and the hilarious line at the end where Bronn tells him he needs a woman after a good fight and Tyrion looks at Cat and says "I'm game if she is..." haha! This episode was full of great one-liners and memorable quotes we could fill a whole post up with them. My favorite moments of the episode were the great dialogue ones in King's Landing between pairs of amazing characters. Robert & Ned, Varys & Littlefinger, Cersei & Robert, Catelyn & Tyrion, Jaime & Ned. Really superb pairings of characters who mostly will part ways after this mid-season arc spins the story out of control. From here on out we know things just spiral downward for pretty much everyone involved.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 18:51:02 GMT -5
I'd completely forgotten about the parallel between Jaime leaving Ned alive and Ned killing Arthur Dayne. It's incredibly ironic that "the man without honour" is more honourable than Ned in this regard.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 18:53:07 GMT -5
Damn them Hill Tribe guys came out of nowhere. I remember watching this for the first time and having no fucking idea who they were. I still appreciated getting two action scenes in a row, mind you. But I didn't exactly get what was up. I liked how they took out Marillion's lute first With the precision they hit some other guys with, they could have easily killed him if they wanted to. So clearly they were trying to make some kind of statement what they though about his music first
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Post by Envie on Jul 31, 2016 21:05:55 GMT -5
Damn them Hill Tribe guys came out of nowhere. I remember watching this for the first time and having no fucking idea who they were. I still appreciated getting two action scenes in a row, mind you. But I didn't exactly get what was up. I liked how they took out Marillion's lute first With the precision they hit some other guys with, they could have easily killed him if they wanted to. So clearly they were trying to make some kind of statement what they though about his music first I'm not sure really why they cast him for the show now that I think about it ... what use was he if he was killed there on the road to the Eyrie anyways. Did I forget something about his role? He was a lot more interesting in the books.
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Post by izzue on Aug 1, 2016 0:17:25 GMT -5
I thought this was a great episode. Again, I just love this S1 Lancel - his expressions are priceless. When Robert gave up trying to compete in the tournament, how revealing that he cursed and said, "I need somebody to hate!" And then his hated of the Targaryens played out for the rest of the episode. A parallel between Loras presenting Sansa with a red rose before he rode in the tourney and Rhaegar presenting Lyanna with a blue rose, crowning her the Queen of Love and Beauty, at the Harrenhall tourney?
I didn't realize Tywin's words to Arya, that she was too smart for her own good, were also spoken of Bran by Maester Luwen back in this episode.
Arya and Balerion's skull - it didn't frighten her at all. She touched it with reverence. Hmm. We know she is enraptured with the last dragons and their riders in a later season when she describes their exploits to Tywin.
With Walder Frey's [almost last] words fresh in my mind from S6, that the way to "rule" was by fear, it struck me that Robert said the same thing to Ned. "Do you think it's Honor that keeps 'them' at bay? It's fear - fear and blood." Also, the rationale of the small council meeting summed up by Pycelle, that wasn't it more reasonable (more merciful, even) to kill Dany and her child so that tens of thousands would live...sounds exactly what Tywin says to Tyrion later about engineering the Red Wedding. Even more interesting, too, now that we know Dany and company have set sail for Westeros, is what Robert said about how the Dothraki would conquer Westeros, whether they could get into the Red Keep or not.
I have always liked the scene between Cersei and Robert, maybe the only time we get to see a glimpse of Cersei being human. When she asks Robert if there was ever a time when they could have made it, and he pauses long, then says, "No" and asks if that makes her feel better or worse, we see - rare, rare thing - a fleeting but definitely painful look on Cersei's face before the mask slips down into place again and she says, "It doesn't make me feel anything." And once again, there Lyanna is in the middle of the episode.
I love these scenes between LF and Varys in the throne room. Varys: "Just one word to the Queen" LF: "Just one word to the King" Too funny.
I've never thought of that parallel, but it's so perceptive. I'd never paid that much attention before, period, to the fight between Ned and Jaime, but this time I heard the sounds of swords swishing in the air, again and again, and loudly. I wonder who would have won if the City guard hadn't put a sword through Ned's leg.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 4:07:59 GMT -5
I liked how they took out Marillion's lute first With the precision they hit some other guys with, they could have easily killed him if they wanted to. So clearly they were trying to make some kind of statement what they though about his music first I'm not sure really why they cast him for the show now that I think about it ... what use was he if he was killed there on the road to the Eyrie anyways. Did I forget something about his role? He was a lot more interesting in the books. He didn't die on the road; he just doesn't go with them to the Eyrie. He goes to King's Landing for whatever reason.
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Post by Envie on Aug 1, 2016 7:28:47 GMT -5
Hey izzue those were some fantastic moments of subtle symbolism and foreshadowing you pointed out in your summary -- would you like to take a stab at writing a full episode 5 symbolism essay as myself and moiaf have done? I have notes but you caught some nice things I hadn't considered and I wont' be able to write one up until tomorrow when I'm off all day. Oh and it was Jaime's own personal Lannister guard who stabbed Ned through the back of his leg, not the City Watch. They don't betray Ned until the end of this season (paid by Littlefinger). I did love that look of disappointment and anger Jaime gave just before he walked over and punched out that Lannister guard for doing such a 'dishonorable' thing ... which @fatherofdragons pointed out too is a fantastic parallel to how Ned's friend Howland Reed attacked Arthur Dayne from behind as well. Maybe Father of Dragons would do a symbolism/parallel/foreshadowing essay? I'm trying to get more of you involved in that part of the project.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 1, 2016 17:06:44 GMT -5
I thought this was a great episode. Again, I just love this S1 Lancel - his expressions are priceless. When Robert gave up trying to compete in the tournament, how revealing that he cursed and said, "I need somebody to hate!" And then his hated of the Targaryens played out for the rest of the episode. A parallel between Loras presenting Sansa with a red rose before he rode in the tourney and Rhaegar presenting Lyanna with a blue rose, crowning her the Queen of Love and Beauty, at the Harrenhall tourney? I didn't realize Tywin's words to Arya, that she was too smart for her own good, were also spoken of Bran by Maester Luwen back in this episode. Arya and Balerion's skull - it didn't frighten her at all. She touched it with reverence. Hmm. We know she is enraptured with the last dragons and their riders in a later season when she describes their exploits to Tywin. With Walder Frey's [almost last] words fresh in my mind from S6, that the way to "rule" was by fear, it struck me that Robert said the same thing to Ned. "Do you think it's Honor that keeps 'them' at bay? It's fear - fear and blood." Also, the rationale of the small council meeting summed up by Pycelle, that wasn't it more reasonable (more merciful, even) to kill Dany and her child so that tens of thousands would live...sounds exactly what Tywin says to Tyrion later about engineering the Red Wedding. Even more interesting, too, now that we know Dany and company have set sail for Westeros, is what Robert said about how the Dothraki would conquer Westeros, whether they could get into the Red Keep or not. I have always liked the scene between Cersei and Robert, maybe the only time we get to see a glimpse of Cersei being human. When she asks Robert if there was ever a time when they could have made it, and he pauses long, then says, "No" and asks if that makes her feel better or worse, we see - rare, rare thing - a fleeting but definitely painful look on Cersei's face before the mask slips down into place again and she says, "It doesn't make me feel anything." And once again, there Lyanna is in the middle of the episode. I love these scenes between LF and Varys in the throne room. Varys: "Just one word to the Queen" LF: "Just one word to the King" Too funny. I've never thought of that parallel, but it's so perceptive. I'd never paid that much attention before, period, to the fight between Ned and Jaime, but this time I heard the sounds of swords swishing in the air, again and again, and loudly. I wonder who would have won if the City guard hadn't put a sword through Ned's leg. To the bonded: How funny that Varys is now allied himself with a Queen and Littlefinger has allied himself with a King. Generally, it was a really good episode, better than I remember. Of ourse it's an increibly sad episode as it's the beginning of the end for poor Ned, and the beginning for the fall of his House, at least for a time. There was a lot of character interactions as you mentioned that really made the episode great. I wonder if Varys was still counting on Viserys to come with the Dothraki hoard. I mean there was no way knowing that khal Drogo would kill Viserys. Which still makes me question some of Varys' motives. Had he just intended for a Targaryen to rule? Or did he have something different in mind? Was he already looking into Dany and planned to get rid of Viserys' in some other way? I don't know. Jory's death always makes me so sad, he was a good character, he didn't deserve to die that way and I fucking hated Jaime. I'm okay with Jaime now, but he's still not one of my favorite characters. Even with his eventual redemption he's done a lot of shit, really wrong shit.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 1, 2016 17:17:31 GMT -5
I do wonder how much truth there will be to Dany's invasion of Westeros with the Dothraki as described by Robert and the small council.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 1, 2016 18:26:14 GMT -5
I wonder if Varys was still counting on Viserys to come with the Dothraki hoard. I mean there was no way knowing that khal Drogo would kill Viserys. Which still makes me question some of Varys' motives. Had he just intended for a Targaryen to rule? Or did he have something different in mind? Was he already looking into Dany and planned to get rid of Viserys' in some other way? I don't know. I've always wondered about Varys' true motives as well, especially in the book when fAegon was in play as well. I sort of think maybe he was juggling all the potential Targaryen restoration candidates in play to find out which one would end up working out the best. Maybe sending Viserys and Dany out in the wild with the Dothraki was a test of sorts? If they survive out there and manage to actually get the Dothraki 'tamed' then they are true conquerors like their ancestors. I also think it's possible Illyrio has been keeping Varys well informed of what an ass Viserys really is and so Varys turned his attention to Daenerys and the marriage to Khal Drogo as a better option. No one could have predicted Daenerys would hatch those eggs though, nor that she would actually end up being a true Targaryen and not one of the defective terrible ones. Perhaps fAegon was simply "Plan B" if Viserys and Daenerys ended up not working out. I'm sure that once Varys found out how awful Viserys was treating Dany and she bore a son to Drogo (if Drogo hadn't died too) he would have found a way for Viserys to be removed anyways. *edit: fAegon conveniently being left out of the show simply reinforces my suspicion that he was just a fake back up plan who will meet some sort of untimely end in the book once Varys is supporting Daenerys fully.
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