alcasinoroyale
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Sept 21, 2016 21:12:55 GMT -5
What do you rate episode 3x02?
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dje
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Post by dje on Oct 2, 2016 13:41:08 GMT -5
10/10, back to back flawless episodes, Season 3 is a turning point in the series where the episodes are much better as the season progresses.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Oct 5, 2016 3:03:08 GMT -5
7. Not big on this one at all. Vanessa Taylor's worst episode and with a few scenes that are downright excruciating. She always felt too modern in her dialogue and sensibilities for the setting. And though I liked a lot of 204 and 206, when given next to nothing to work with, she came up with this uninspired ep. Though in fairness to her certain scenes in it were shot for 301 and written by D and D. It has its good moments too but too few to buy much goodwill for it from me. I'll go into more detail as to why tomorrow maybe.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 10:29:07 GMT -5
I'm going with a 7 as well. Pretty mediocre episode. It had some bad dialogue, a number of scenes went on too long, and it was the start of the Theon torture porn (ugh). I wasn't crazy about the Cat/Talisa scene either, despite some fine acting by Michelle Fairley. The Jaime/Brienne fight could have been better, but I did enjoy some of his banter in this one. Thoros was probably the best thing about the episode.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Oct 5, 2016 22:18:30 GMT -5
7. Not big on this one at all. Vanessa Taylor's worst episode and with a few scenes that are downright excruciating. She always felt too modern in her dialogue and sensibilities for the setting. And though I liked a lot of 204 and 206, when given next to nothing to work with, she came up with this uninspired ep. Though in fairness to her certain scenes in it were shot for 301 and written by D and D. It has its good moments too but too few to buy much goodwill for it from me. I'll go into more detail as to why tomorrow maybe. I guess I'll give a brief rundown on why this one doesn't work for me. In part because two of the plotlines it introduces should've been used more sparingly in the season. Theon and Bran should've only been in a few episodes. Maybe even just two. If they'd ended s2 with only the reveal that Bran was alive instead of rushing and keeping vague about Theon's capture and Ramsay's arrival and whatnot, it would've been fine to give them the screentime they had. If the first few episodes were the end of the ACOK material and then we'd dropped in on them once or twice leading up to the finale, that would've worked. But having Bran's plotline tread water with forced rivalries between Osha and Meera and whatnot was a boring way to insert them in. It'd have been better to simply have them meet Jojen and Meera, show them in 304 in their scene in that episode and then not show them again in the season until 309 and the finale. Their material in 306 and 307 was wholly unnecessary. With Theon I understand why they didn't have him skip a season. That was a good call. But in s4 they were fine having him only in three episodes, which they should've done here as well. If we'd only gotten his catch and release with Ramsay trick and then had the torture implied and then and only then shown him in the finale that would've been much better. I know they were playing coy with the reveal of who Ramsay was so Roose's betrayal didn't seem quite so imminent. That made sense. But I think there would've been better ways around it. If they'd made that reveal of who Ramsay was through the piece of Theon's skin like in ASOS, that would've been a pretty good moment for the audience to piece things together. Anyhow. I don't outright despise the torture arc. We at least got Charlotte Hope out of it. But it was a misstep and one with WAY too much screentime. So those two arcs beginning in this ep. gives it a bad taste in my mouth. And although the best arc of the season, Jaime's, is brought in here, it's done with a lot of "as you know" re-establishing dialogue. As is Arya's return. The BWB's intro is fun though, so I'll forgive them magically acquiring castle-forged swords, supposedly from when they left Harrenhal (although when they left in 208 they didn't have them). Now "as you know" expository dialogue is sometimes a necessary evil. In pilots I understand it 100 percent. But by s3 I just wish they'd been as confident in people's abilities to remember the show's past goings-on as they have been since. On to the scenes I don't care for. First and foremost that Tyrion-Shae scene. Jesus do I hate that scene. It just screams "we had to give Sibel something to do, have her nag Tyrion again". And it's bad. Really bad. Especially when she gets mad that he called Sansa beautiful. That's just forced. She wouldn't give a shit. Anyhow, a godawful grueling thing to sit through there. On to my earlier complain about treading water, there just seem to be too many scenes doing just that. It's one thing to let the characters breathe and interact naturally. But it's another thing to put them in a room and just expect it to work. The Robb-Talisa bit is an example of that, only made bearable by Oona's charisma. Much of the Bran scenes are in that camp too. The introductions in the ep. work fine, I guess. We get the QoT, we get the Reeds, Locke, the BWB, probably some other sonsofbitches...but its possible to have an uneventful episode that checks boxes and sets stuff up that's still very good. Its possible to have an economical setup piece that flows well, is paced well and is lively and entertaining. This just wasn't that though, alas. Thankfully from this ep. until 307 though, we get a pretty good, even stretch of season. That'll be more fun to rewatch.
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alcasinoroyale
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Oct 5, 2016 22:43:27 GMT -5
I gave it a 7 and got to agree with konradsmith. I dunno why they decided to stretch Theon and Bran's storylines more than needed, both of which are probably two of the weakest in this season. This screentime could have been beneficial elsewhere. However, I think it was a good decision to introduce The Reeds here instead of in S2. I think the strongest scenes are Sansa meeting with Olenna and Margaery as well as Arya with the Brotherhood without Banners. I do like that they also had a scene where Cat feels remorse for her treatment of Jon. Also Locke's introduction is amusing. But compared to the premiere, there isn't a whole lot that happens here.
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Post by Envie on Oct 6, 2016 12:47:08 GMT -5
I'm late to the party, doing my 3x02 and 3x03 re-watch back to back today! I am giving this one an 8/10 because I didn't find it quite as boring as you guys but it still lacked a bit in just a couple of places. Overall though there were some fantastic scenes that can't be forgotten and really boosted this episode much higher. It DID feel more like a Season 2 episode and now that konradsmith mentioned it was done by the same person, I see why. It's up and down in some places. What I liked about this episode was great transition between the scenes to tie them together and the theme of how dangerous the game is at this point overall. I adore the opening scene of this one with the three eyed raven and Bran meeting Jojen in his dream. I am such a geek for the symbolism stuff so it just really works for me because Jojen says "Because the Raven is you." Which is not something we as book readers really even understood back then but we do now! One strange thing I noticed in this episode and now several others previously is that EVERY time Roose Bolton is in a scene with Robb, it's Talisa either there and he's interrupting her, or she's entering the scene and interrupting him with Robb. Why did they do that? One of the weirder GoT mysteries to me. It's just weird. Talisa was weird to me. Such mystery and suspense around a character who dies as if she's so much more important than the plot device she was, unfortunately. But speaking of Talisa ... despite disliking her overall, I cannot ever dismiss the scene she has with Catelyn because of it. In fact that scene is one of my all-time favorites and never fails to make me cry. Every. Damn. Time. The speech about how Catelyn wanted Jon Snow dead and now feels like every misfortune since her breaking her promise to the Gods is because of it is so moving and it gives Catelyn's hatred of Jon such humanity. I don't understand how so many fans can hate her for that ... they just showed you why and how she's been bearing the guilty burden of that hate ever since! I do agree the scene with Shae berating and being a complete catty bitch to Tyrion was over the top stupid. First of all, Shae should have zero jealousy of Ros since Ros was a whore too and Tyrion slept with her before he even knew Ros ffs, and hello Shae have you forgotten who you are? As for Sansa, wtf... this is the handmaiden who is worried about Sansa and comes to Tyrion for help about it but promptly forgets that concern when Tyrion says Sansa is beautiful? Poorly played script there and I won't even blame Sibel's acting at all. They just flat out should not have done that scene at all for all the good it did in showing us how "Dangerous" Littlefinger is. Blargh. But really, other than that one and the Talisa/Robb scene ... I loved the rest of the episode. I loved "The Three Musketeers of Westeros" scene for Gendry/Arya/Hotpie meeting Thoros and how awesome Paul Kaye is at bringing Thoros to life instantly. We love him from the first minute we meet him and later in the Inn he's even better, drunk and all! I especially loved that ending where Sandor recognizes Arya and says "What in Seven Hells are you doing with the Stark bitch?" and they both turn to look at Arya. That was such a great almost comedy movie moment. I also loved Jaime and Brienne together as always... their journey was one of the most memorable. His constant antagonism of her until he finally catches her off-guard on that bridge long enough to grab a sword and fight her before Locke and crew breaks up the great duel. The scene with Margaery, Lady Olenna and Sansa was fantastic too despite the stupid Cheese-boy servant everyone makes memes about. I loved the terror in Sansa, like a little bird (symbolic) caught in her cage with two cats peering in at her. She gives in and tells them what they want and of course neither of them is even slightly phased or surprised by the news that Joffrey is a monster. Sansa is clearly confused by this because even knowing how awful he is, they intend to go forward with the wedding and this is the first inkling we get that they're hatching a plan from the git go. I ADORE Diana Rigg as Lady Olenna and like Paul Kaye am so glad they've kept the character around long after necessary to add such great flavor to the show. Bringing Thoros of Myr back into the story was a great choice and it looks like he has some important part to play up North so that's exciting for Season 7 too. I never really liked the scene with Margaery and Joffrey in my first watch of the show but now, with a jaded eye, I appreciate it much more for Margaery's clever play of Joffrey to get to the heart of what motivates him and turns him on (sadism) which shows us that Margaery is almost as clever as her Grandmother and in time, had she lived, she would have been as successful too. Sadly she was out-played by Cersei which is a great story anyways and I love it. I know lots of people were outraged they killed off Margaery but I don't miss her despite my wondering how the hell House Tyrell will go onward now with no heirs! Well those were my favorites and why I gave this episode a higher score despite a couple of low rated scenes it still had 80% great stuff in it and sets up a lot of new stories to begin such as Brotherhood Without Banners, Locke and the Boltons, Ramsay and Reek, Meera and Jojen .... MANY great introductions in this episode makes it one to keep at the top of my list of Season 3 favorites.
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