Envie
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Post by Envie on May 16, 2017 22:26:16 GMT -5
Re-Watch Date: Wednesday, May 17th, 2017
HBO Viewer's Guide Page: viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-2Runtime: 54 minutes Original Release date: May 1st, 2016 Bran trains with the Three-Eyed Raven.
Tommen meets with Cersei.
Tyrion makes a bold move.
Theon leaves while at Pyke new issues arise.
Ramsay's brother is born.
Davos asks Melisandre for a miracle. |
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alcasinoroyale
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Post by alcasinoroyale on May 16, 2017 22:44:20 GMT -5
I think this episode definitely showcased how much Dave Hill improved as a writer from S5. Besides Jon's resurrection, there's still a lot of strong moments such as Sansa and Theon saying goodbye, Davos and Mel's conversation, and then Bran seeing Young Ned, Lyanna, Benjen, and Hodor really felt nostalgic in a way, even if it was a flashback.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on May 16, 2017 23:47:08 GMT -5
I think this episode definitely showcased how much Dave Hill improved as a writer from S5. Besides Jon's resurrection, there's still a lot of strong moments such as Sansa and Theon saying goodbye, Davos and Mel's conversation, and then Bran seeing Young Ned, Lyanna, Benjen, and Hodor really felt nostalgic in a way, even if it was a flashback. I agree, the writing improved a lot from the previous season and the focus really seems to get a lot tighter with each character, particularly the main ones. Sansa and Theon were amazing together as were Davos and Mel. The High Sparrow and Jaime was a tense moment and we got that tiny glimmer of the High Sparrow's true colors with the little smirk he gives Jaime when Jaime realizes he's outnumbered in the Sept. It's little moments like that which really make this season stand out and shine from the first episode to the last even though it's the big scenes and battles that win the season's overall high marks. The scene I'd forgotten and became more painful on rewatch was Cersei and Tommen. Tommen asking her for forgiveness and her hesitation and then giving in to embrace him was so perfectly done. He admits he's weak and not a good ruler and Cersei knows it but like any Mother, doesn't admit it back to Tommen. I think it's at this point she realizes Tommen is just a pawn and she's using him every bit as much as the High Sparrow is in the struggle. Maybe she even realizes she's going to lose him somehow too since she admitted to Jaime she believes the prophecy is coming true. We can also enjoy the parallel here that Tommen tells his Mother he should have pulled the sept down on the High Sparrow's head, as she would do for him. And she DOES do for him ... what a sad moment in rewatching ...  |
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Post by alcasinoroyale on May 16, 2017 23:51:47 GMT -5
Ninja'd by Envie .  But yeah it's interesting that Tommen asks Cersei to help him and then she ends up following what he suggested about pulling down the Sept onto the High Sparrow's head. |
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on May 16, 2017 23:54:39 GMT -5
Cersei was probably thinking 'Good idea Tommen' Yeah we can wonder if Tommen's words put a seed of an idea in Cersei's head right then, for sure! Sadly she misjudged Tommen's vulnerability and left him alone after she did it.  |
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 17, 2017 8:45:23 GMT -5
Yeah we can wonder if Tommen's words put a seed of an idea in Cersei's head right then, for sure! Sadly she misjudged Tommen's vulnerability and left him alone after she did it. I don't think Cersei intended to be there for Tommen. This scene showed me that she'd already written him off. The destiny of three shrouds in her mind has already arisen, and remember this is the baby she would have sacrificed during the Battle of the Blackwater if anyone other than friendly forces had come through that door. All she has is slipping away and Tommen has just given her the glimmer of an idea. I felt this is the moment when she first begins to think of how to defeat all her enemies. Once trial by combat is taken away, it's easy to replace the Mountain with wildfire. She had intricate plans set in motion, and never thought how her machinations might affect that friendless child. Otherwise, I completely agree about the writing and focus. Every thing is set with a proper sense of timing and urgency. We are building toward the finale, and the final act is beginning. Davos' confession to Melisandre of his grudging belief in her, not necessarily her religion is a brilliant scene. Theon's earnestness to Sansa, "I would have taken you all the way." knowing that Jon would most likely put him to death. Even Sansa and Brienne's conversation about Arya. The glimmer of hope she received from knowing Bran and Rickon lived starting to flame into the strength that will take her to Lady of Winterfell. I must confession after season 5, 6 felt like a different world. With a few exceptions (cough, cough Dorne), it was brilliant in so many ways. |
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on May 17, 2017 12:15:28 GMT -5
I don't think Cersei intended to be there for Tommen. This scene showed me that she'd already written him off. The destiny of three shrouds in her mind has already arisen, and remember this is the baby she would have sacrificed during the Battle of the Blackwater if anyone other than friendly forces had come through that door. I can agree with this counter-point and it's true she was already prepared to lose Tommen before. This scene definitely solidified her internal struggle with it but clearly she's already realizing he's not going to be a powerful ruler. Where Joffrey was completely out of her control, Tommen is the exact opposite ... yet under the High Sparrow's Control not hers. I don't know if we'll ever know for sure if Cersei has completely written off Tommen due to the prophecy. She put the Mountain on guard and prevented him from going to the Sept for the trial so I have to think she had a glimmer of hope that if she eliminated Margaery and the High Sparrow she could 'save' Tommen and maybe break the spell/misfortune somehow. Even with her admitting she believed Maggy the Frog, her willful determination drives her onward to try and deny it anyways. I think we'll see some more of this in Season 7 too but not going to go into details on that here in the rewatch.  |
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katjushka
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Post by katjushka on May 19, 2017 3:41:16 GMT -5
The Winterfell flashback is still great, so much in one scene. Not just the flashback itself but to see Bran's abilities and see how he doesn't see any danger in them. I do wonder what Meera will do next, she's been with Bran for so long that it'd be weird if she just left now. I hope she makes it though. Wun Wun to the rescue at the wall, bye Thorne  I hope Theon gets to shine again, I hope he gets to be a good guy and do good. I like Euron's introduction, it's a good scene. Tyrion visiting the dragons is a great scene, just watching him finally talk about dragons is great. I sure hope he gets to ride one of them one day, he's deserve that though I don't think he'll actually be a dragon rider. |
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Post by Envie on May 19, 2017 7:01:24 GMT -5
Tyrion visiting the dragons is a great scene, just watching him finally talk about dragons is great. I sure hope he gets to ride one of them one day, he's deserve that though I don't think he'll actually be a dragon rider. YES! This scene is probably my favorite of the episode other than Edd and Tormund storming back into Castle Black to save Davos and crew, that was pretty awesome too on rewatch. I'd forgotten how great that was to see Wun Wun smash a guy against the wall and everyone throw down their weapons! But for pure emotional win, it had to be Tyrion's talk with Rhaegal and Viserion that won this episode for me, even over the tearful goodbye between Theon and Sansa. I love the dragons and I've been waiting so long for the two captive ones to finally get free. I remember when this one aired I was ecstatic about Tyrion's interactions with them (to bolster some Tyrion Targaryen theories lol) but also disappointed they didn't actually get to leave the dungeon. I now know why they saved that part for the epic Meereen battle so it's ok. And for the record, I am still only 50/50 on Tyrion Targaryen theories and have discussed it at length many times so no need to rehash that again. I think the talk he had with Missandei was the most telling upon rewatch. He asked her if the dragons had ever harmed her or anyone who was friends with Daenerys. When he found out no they had not, that bolstered his courage to go and release them. They sensed he was a good guy and on Dany's 'team' so that's definitely good enough for me! Tyrion has loved dragons since he was little and wished he had one. I'm so glad they put that in from the books.  |
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 19, 2017 8:40:03 GMT -5
I think the talk he had with Missandei was the most telling upon rewatch. He asked her if the dragons had ever harmed her or anyone who was friends with Daenerys. When he found out no they had not, that bolstered his courage to go and release them. They sensed he was a good guy and on Dany's 'team' so that's definitely good enough for me! Tyrion has loved dragons since he was little and wished he had one. I'm so glad they put that in from the books. I wondered if they perhaps sensed or 'smelled' Dany on Tyrion, since he was in her throne room, with her in close proximity. Animals of many kinds can tell if you are friend or foe simply by the pheromones you emit. Since dragons are apex intelligence, when Tyrion bowed and showed them respect it made them willing to stop and investigate a little deeper. |
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on May 19, 2017 15:26:59 GMT -5
I wondered if they perhaps sensed or 'smelled' Dany on Tyrion, since he was in her throne room, with her in close proximity. Animals of many kinds can tell if you are friend or foe simply by the pheromones you emit. Since dragons are apex intelligence, when Tyrion bowed and showed them respect it made them willing to stop and investigate a little deeper. Yes they definitely seemed to sense Tyrion's intentions were good and possibly his connection to Daenerys already. They definitely communicated clearly to him what they wanted. I loved how he turned around and the other one's staring right at him and then turns his head and shakes it a little to indicate his chains as if to say "Now undo my chains too!" That was awesome. Love how well they've done with the dragon CGI in Season 6! :Zdragonburnknight: |
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 19, 2017 15:41:25 GMT -5
I wondered if they perhaps sensed or 'smelled' Dany on Tyrion, since he was in her throne room, with her in close proximity. Animals of many kinds can tell if you are friend or foe simply by the pheromones you emit. Since dragons are apex intelligence, when Tyrion bowed and showed them respect it made them willing to stop and investigate a little deeper. Yes they definitely seemed to sense Tyrion's intentions were good and possibly his connection to Daenerys already. They definitely communicated clearly to him what they wanted. I loved how he turned around and the other one's staring right at him and then turns his head and shakes it a little to indicate his chains as if to say "Now undo my chains too!" That was awesome. Love how well they've done with the dragon CGI in Season 6! :Zdragonburnknight: Agreed, the dragons are becoming individual characters at last. I wonder when they return to Dragonstone, if any of the old dragon harnesses are still around? On second thought, don't know if I want to see them saddled up. It's kind of cool how Drogon throws his arm down and she climbs his wing to sit bareback. |
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Post by dje on May 21, 2017 13:48:17 GMT -5
I loved this episode, Bran's flashback was great, young Lyanna was awesome. The Mountain smashing in the guys head for talking about Cersei was great, nice parallel to Wun Wun's attack. I like Jaime threatening the High Sparrow as well. Tyrion's talk with Rhaegal and Viserion was a classic. I also liked how there wasn't anyone around for Jon's resurrection, yet, Ghost senses Jon's return.
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Post by izzue on May 21, 2017 18:36:57 GMT -5
Great posts - I'm watching late and posting late, but agree and ditto to them all! I remember that after Bran saw Lyanna ride into the yard below and commented that his dad had never talked about her, BR had looked around and Bran was gone, down into the yard. But what I hadn't noted before, not like today, was that when BR turned around, he was starting to say something to Bran. I wonder what he would have said, how he would have worded it. I also thought of Patchface's song when Bran complained that BR had brought him back just when he was finally beginning to be somewhere he wanted to be, and BR replied that it was "beautiful beneath the sea, but if you stay too long you'll drown." Have no idea whether any connection was meant or not, I guess I've just always missed Patchface in the tv series and always wondered about his song. Shireen did sing the song, though, while the ending credits rolled after an episode 'way long ago, but I don't remember which one. Had forgotten that conversation between Tommen and Jaime in the Sept when Tommen was asking if Trystane's killers had been found, then said, "I expect it was Mother." Then when Jaime replied that she wouldn't do that, Tommen had said calmly, "Yes, she would." He's come a long way in terms of insight into Cersei - but loves and accepts her anyway. Yep, too sweet and kind a young king to live for long in Westeros. Tyrion freeing the dragons, 'way up there in my list of favorites. And Sansa and Theon saying goodbye was so well done. Could not watch the Walda/baby Roose scene again. Just couldn't. Turned the volume off and peeked at intervals to see if it was over yet -- damn, it lasted forever!  Loved the shy, little shuffle Davos did when approaching Melisandre, hands behind his back, almost like a young teen asking a girl out on a date for the first time. And the bit about "I expect you know why I'm here" when she says "I will after you tell me" instead of that she'd already 'seen' it. Creepy old Balon Greyjoy, creepy old Iron Islands, creepy old Damphair, and creepy-scary Euron. I'm hoping Yara does get the chance to 'feed him to the sharks while he still lives', for I'm sure she'll learn he was the killer. |
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Moondancer
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Post by breakfest on Jul 10, 2017 11:39:19 GMT -5
Having now re-watched all of Season 6, which I did really like, I think what they did with Ramsay was the weakest part, and mostly just a huge miss. Unlike many people, he didn't wear me out in Season 5 and I think he'd been a pretty effective villain up until then, especially in relation to Roose who still a had a measure of control over him - but the decision to have him kill off Roose at this stage and in such an abrupt way feels like such a missed opportunity. The writers really overestimated how interesting Ramsay was as a villain - he really failed to hold up his storyline for the rest season, which consisted of him wielding power with barely any resistance up until the battle. Even the moment at which he murdered Roose didn't work as well as it could because they were going for this abrupt, shocking effect.
I feel like this could have been a great final season for him if they had built up the conflict between him and Roose, only for it to explode later in the season and effectively ruin the Boltons' plans for the battle with Jon. That relationship was the best aspect of his character. Show his temper broiling as Roose tries to quell his basest instincts ahead of the battle. Roose knows there's no need to leave the castle walls in order to hold it; where the impatient Ramsay wants to take the attack to Jon. He could send the Pink Letter against Roose's command; forcing Jon to attack, and upping the conflict between him and Roose. Smalljon Umber can still deliver Rickon and Osha - but to Roose instead. They differ again on how to utilise Rickon in the battle plan. This could have simmered really well all season before Ramsay murders him just before the battle and seizes command. He could even do it secretly, and actually be able to blame it on 'his enemies' in a plausible way, whilst still keeping his allies on side. It could have been a really powerful scene.
As it was they blew their load on a shocking early season death and Ramsay just kind of sat in Winterfell being horrible all season, with valuable pawns falling into his lap. When he was only really interesting in the first place because of his relationship with Roose. Poor Roose. I've belaboured the point a bit but this was such a missed opportunity. The Battle of the Bastards could have been even better.
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