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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 29, 2017 17:40:52 GMT -5
In watching again I cannot help but wonder why Sam didn't mix a little milk of the poppy into the rum he gave Ser Jorah. Did it matter if he were conscious? Seems to me it would have been easier to skin him if Jorah had been out cold.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 17:46:41 GMT -5
In watching again I cannot help but wonder why Sam didn't mix a little milk of the poppy into the rum he gave Ser Jorah. Did it matter if he were conscious? Seems to me it would have been easier to skin him if Jorah had been out cold. Fair point, but it wouldn't have made for much of a scene.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 18:23:24 GMT -5
Been thinking about this one and wondering what their thought behind it is. Maybe, since Cersei claims to be the legitimate ruler through inheritance, she still has to maintain her status as part of the Baratheon dynasty? Otherwise it would look like the coup that it was. I don't know. It probably should be the lion though. I think this is the best rationalisation for it. She's a Baratheon-by-marriage, and that's really the only reason she has any sort of claim (not that that's important when you kill anyone who'd say otherwise though)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 7:06:27 GMT -5
I'm 99% sure it's just laziness. If Cersei was claiming the throne via her Baratheon marriage then she wouldn't have lions adorning the throne room or her clothing. Plus, she was never actually a Baratheon. Women who marry kings don't actually join the house like they would have done if they had married someone who wasn't a royal.
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Post by breakfest on Jul 30, 2017 7:35:56 GMT -5
I'm 99% sure it's just laziness. If Cersei was claiming the throne via her Baratheon marriage then she wouldn't have lions adorning the throne room or her clothing. Plus, she was never actually a Baratheon. Women who marry kings don't actually join the house like they would have done if they had married someone who wasn't a royal. Agreed with the first point, but as is the case in different real-world dynastic cycles you don't have to share the name to be considered part of a House's dynasty. They may give an answer to this at some point, or they may just admit they didn't think about it.
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Post by Balerion's Whiskers on Jul 30, 2017 7:51:42 GMT -5
I was waiting for that lion too. Tywin must be rolling in his grave that is wasn't there.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Jul 30, 2017 12:19:53 GMT -5
I'm 99% sure it's just laziness. If Cersei was claiming the throne via her Baratheon marriage then she wouldn't have lions adorning the throne room or her clothing. Plus, she was never actually a Baratheon. Women who marry kings don't actually join the house like they would have done if they had married someone who wasn't a royal. Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's reigning as Cersei Lannister, First of Her Name. No mention of the Baratheon name anywhere.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Jul 30, 2017 12:24:17 GMT -5
In watching again I cannot help but wonder why Sam didn't mix a little milk of the poppy into the rum he gave Ser Jorah. Did it matter if he were conscious? Seems to me it would have been easier to skin him if Jorah had been out cold. That's all I could think about during that scene.
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Post by lojzelote on Jul 30, 2017 13:42:30 GMT -5
Another issue is that Dany never asked Mirri when she would be reunited with Drogo, she asked him when will he be as he was, You definitely have a point there and I'll concede that Dany has outgrown Drogo. I just don't believe that both of them (Jon and Dany) will survive. The king references are too frequent for Jon not to be king....but that could simply mean KitN. (but I don't think so)Jon has never sought to rule. In every instance it was thrust upon him and I think it will be the case for Westeros...but I'm betting that Kings Landing and the Iron Throne will be destroyed and the rule will come from Winterfell (or a rebuilt Harrenhal?) I agree with you that Jon and Beric's situations are somewhat different...that BookGhost will preserve Jon's humanity, but he's still been dead. The ramifications of that have yet to have been felt. Chances are, the show will simplify things and we won't get any further explaniation...Bran is the only warg we've been shown and the topic wasn't touched with Jon...if he'd gone into ShowGhost, he would have seen what was going on, instead he saw nothing. The divergence from canon doesn't bother me though. The show has to be simplified because there is so much going on internally in the books that would be impossible to convey in the show. Well, I think that Jon is supposed to be a king in the mythological sense. The once and future king that returns when the country is in danger. It doesn't neccessarily mean he will ever get down to mundane ruling. While I belive that Jon won't be a straight down "fire wight", he will still be undead unless there's a way to actually heal his mortal wounds and restart his metabolism. So far we've seen nothing like that except maybe Victarion's arm, but from its description its not clear if his arm is healed although disfigured or fully transformed into some smoking undead stuff. And unless things completely turn around and magic retursn to the world as strong as in the Dawn Age, I see little chance of Zombie King Jon ruling Westeros. I am of two minds about this because I firmly believe that GRRM means for Westeros to remain united, but the only endgame rulers that make sense are Jon and Dany, Aragorn's tax policy and all, and killing either of them would disrupt the ice/fire and male/female balance.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 30, 2017 14:45:06 GMT -5
I have to be honest, but after GRRM revealed that Berric is a fire wight, I feel like Jon's chances of survival have gone down. And while Jon might not be exactly like Berric because of his bloodline and in the books he wargs into Ghost, he's sort of undead. Which now makes me wonder why Berric is still part of the show. Is there something Jon needs to learn from him? I think this is part of the 'what qualifies as magical if magic is removed from the world?' line of theories. We don't know if that's the route GRRM is going with the end, but it's a possibility. If that's the case, is Dany magical? On the show she's immune to fire. She didn't come back to life, she just never died when in the fire like the humans she burned. Is Bran magical? The children of the forest and the three eyed raven were magical but they didn't vanish from the world (so that wasn't how it ended the last time around). Maybe, instead of having infinite lives, Jon is just Jon at the end, mortal again with no more lives after the one he's got? "Make the best of the life you have" seems to be all he really wants anyways. Well, if magic does leave I don't think those who are magical will perish because the magical leaves. I think if it does leave it'll be something that will die out, so once they are gone then magic will be gone. For Jon I worry because his life is actively being sustained by magic. He died and was brought back, and therefore magic brought him bacck. But as you say, i can just mean that he can't brought back again Which now makes me wonder why Berric is still part of the show. Is there something Jon needs to learn from him? I think his purpose is to show Jon how to live with what's happened to him. Each time Beric returns, he leaves another part of himself behind. Jon left behind 'the boy', the moody loner who sat in the corner but when the shit hit the fan, he was the one at the front of the charge. But he's still trying to come to grips with the question of 'why am I here?' Melisandre didn't provide him with any purpose, I think that will come from Thoros of Myr and Beric. This makes sense and it can also be a warning for Jon of what happens if you are brought back multiple times. He wouldn't want that, I don't think. Jon is different because at least in the books his consciousness will live inside of Ghost, so he won't lose as much of himself as others would. Also, I always tought that his parentage would relae more to the magical aspects of the story then the political and this is where it would make the most difference because he's be different from the other in that respect as well. I have to be honest, but after GRRM revealed that Berric is a fire wight, I feel like Jon's chances of survival have gone down. And while Jon might not be exactly like Berric because of his bloodline and in the books he wargs into Ghost, he's sort of undead. Which now makes me wonder why Berric is still part of the show. Is there something Jon needs to learn from him? Maybe I'm an optimist, but I don't think that Jon is the same as Beric. The rituals done to resurrect them both are different and just...I don't know, they seem really different in terms of consciousness. If the theories about Jon and Dany having a child are right, then wouldn't that mean Jon isn't a wight? Wights are just dead, but Jon is alive? You could even argue that Shireen's death paid for Jon's life? I think he's definitely undead but very different from Berric, if you see my answer above. I also think, and this is weird, I know, that maybe Dany's gift (if you can call it that) of bringing dead things to life or the untaped magic she doesnt understand but can weild could play a part in that. I don't know, I'm just trying to figur ethat out. You definitely have a point there and I'll concede that Dany has outgrown Drogo. I just don't believe that both of them (Jon and Dany) will survive. The king references are too frequent for Jon not to be king....but that could simply mean KitN. (but I don't think so)Jon has never sought to rule. In every instance it was thrust upon him and I think it will be the case for Westeros...but I'm betting that Kings Landing and the Iron Throne will be destroyed and the rule will come from Winterfell (or a rebuilt Harrenhal?) I agree with you that Jon and Beric's situations are somewhat different...that BookGhost will preserve Jon's humanity, but he's still been dead. The ramifications of that have yet to have been felt. Chances are, the show will simplify things and we won't get any further explaniation...Bran is the only warg we've been shown and the topic wasn't touched with Jon...if he'd gone into ShowGhost, he would have seen what was going on, instead he saw nothing. The divergence from canon doesn't bother me though. The show has to be simplified because there is so much going on internally in the books that would be impossible to convey in the show. Well, I think that Jon is supposed to be a king in the mythological sense. The once and future king that returns when the country is in danger. It doesn't neccessarily mean he will ever get down to mundane ruling. While I belive that Jon won't be a straight down "fire wight", he will still be undead unless there's a way to actually heal his mortal wounds and restart his metabolism. So far we've seen nothing like that except maybe Victarion's arm, but from its description its not clear if his arm is healed although disfigured or fully transformed into some smoking undead stuff. And unless things completely turn around and magic retursn to the world as strong as in the Dawn Age, I see little chance of Zombie King Jon ruling Westeros. I am of two minds about this because I firmly believe that GRRM means for Westeros to remain united, but the only endgame rulers that make sense are Jon and Dany, Aragorn's tax policy and all, and killing either of them would disrupt the ice/fire and male/female balance. This is pretty much how I feel.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 30, 2017 20:28:13 GMT -5
Been thinking about this one and wondering what their thought behind it is. Maybe, since Cersei claims to be the legitimate ruler through inheritance, she still has to maintain her status as part of the Baratheon dynasty? Otherwise it would look like the coup that it was. I don't know. It probably should be the lion though. I think this is the best rationalisation for it. She's a Baratheon-by-marriage, and that's really the only reason she has any sort of claim (not that that's important when you kill anyone who'd say otherwise though) she had herself crowned as cersei of house lannister, first of her name, and sent a letter to jon to that effect. she's not claiming anything as robert's widow, she hates him way too much to do that.
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