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Post by TheMadQueen on May 25, 2017 17:02:42 GMT -5
the one question i do have...is why we're obviously and rightfully supposed to see cersei's betrayal as evil and fucked up. like just looking at from her own shoes, isn't it somewhat understandable that she betrays them? even if the lannister army + dany/jon's froces beat the WWs together. afterwards, jon and dany would still want to take the throne from her and kill her or imprison her for life. like i can't imagine a scenario in which jon/dany just let cersei be un-punished even if she helps them with the WW?? and even if betraying jon/dany means that she'll have the deal with the WWs on her own....well Cersei could just wildfire them lol. and the icing on the cake of all this is that jon shows that he's not so "netural" afterall by knweeling to dany at the dragonpit and dany lying to cersei by omission in regards to the dragons and viserion. They know Cersei is a nasty bitch who wants them dead. That's about it. They have no reason to believe, in my opinion, that'd she's go far as to doom herself and the kingdom she's trying to rule. Like, she's not completely batshit, she *should* be reasonable enough to see that this pact is in her best interests.
But a recurring theme in her story is people underestimating her. Ned never thought she'd actually murder her own husband. Tyrion never thought she'd actually accuse him of killing his own nephew. The Small Council never thought she'd actually work with the Faith Militant. The High Sparrow never thought she'd actually attack him and avoid trial.
So in season seven, no one will ever think she'd actually betray them. But she sure tf will.
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Post by belle on May 25, 2017 17:19:40 GMT -5
the one question i do have...is why we're obviously and rightfully supposed to see cersei's betrayal as evil and fucked up. like just looking at from her own shoes, isn't it somewhat understandable that she betrays them? even if the lannister army + dany/jon's froces beat the WWs together. afterwards, jon and dany would still want to take the throne from her and kill her or imprison her for life. like i can't imagine a scenario in which jon/dany just let cersei be un-punished even if she helps them with the WW?? and even if betraying jon/dany means that she'll have the deal with the WWs on her own....well Cersei could just wildfire them lol. and the icing on the cake of all this is that jon shows that he's not so "netural" afterall by knweeling to dany at the dragonpit and dany lying to cersei by omission in regards to the dragons and viserion. They know Cersei is a nasty bitch who wants them dead. That's about it. They have no reason to believe, in my opinion, that'd she's go far as to doom herself and the kingdom she's trying to rule. Like, she's not completely batshit, she *should* be reasonable enough to see that this pact is in her best interests.
But a recurring theme in her story is people underestimating her. Ned never thought she'd actually murder her own husband. Tyrion never thought she'd actually accuse him of killing his own nephew. The Small Council never thought she'd actually work with the Faith Militant. The High Sparrow never thought she'd actually attack him and avoid trial.
So in season seven, no one will ever think she'd actually betray them. But she sure tf will.
Not my point. I'm only asking whether it actually makes sense from cersei's POV
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belle
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Post by belle on May 25, 2017 17:21:59 GMT -5
her only real losses for the season are breaking up with jaime and losing her baby. but tbh both those losses are "wins" to me lol. hate jaime/cersei and i don't want to see cersei as a mother anymore . weellll dany does hand Jaime his ass after Highgarden, and the Unsullied take the rock. They clearly weren't enough, but her and Dany do fight pretty evenly. I can't do a spoiler cut bc I'm on my phone But with the unsullied, it was a strategic play from cersei and one that ends up working. I agree that for the most part it makes sense why cersei doesn't just die in ep 2. But still i think she's the smartest main character of season 7
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2017 18:45:37 GMT -5
her only real losses for the season are breaking up with jaime and losing her baby. but tbh both those losses are "wins" to me lol. hate jaime/cersei and i don't want to see cersei as a mother anymore . weellll dany does hand Jaime his ass after Highgarden, and the Unsullied take the rock. They clearly weren't enough, but her and Dany do fight pretty evenly. Losing the Ironborn fleet, the Reach and the Dorne seems to be alot more than thousands of the Lannisters forces. Cersei still has a lot of her army, Euron's forces and newly Golden Company.
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Post by moiaf on May 25, 2017 19:43:43 GMT -5
weellll dany does hand Jaime his ass after Highgarden, and the Unsullied take the rock. They clearly weren't enough, but her and Dany do fight pretty evenly. Losing the Ironborn fleet, the Reach and the Dorne seems to be alot more than thousands of the Lannisters forces. Cersei still has a lot of her army, Euron's forces and newly Golden Company. Dany doesn't lose the Reach, she hands Jaime his ass there and her people take it over. She loses the Martell's but we don't know about the rest of Dorne... So, by episode seven Jon and Dany control the North, The Reach, The Vale, The Riverlands and potentially the Stormlands with Gendry's help while Cersei controls King's Landing, Pyke and Dorne is up for grabs. Dany's army will be mostly intact in the she had 108,000 to begin with and will probably still have 90,000 by the end of the season and she'll still have two dragons. The only reason they don't take over King's Landing is because Cersei is holding it hostage sitting on a pile of Wildfire
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Post by alcasinoroyale on May 25, 2017 19:48:41 GMT -5
I think we can just label this thread spoilers so you guys don't have to keep using tags.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 25, 2017 20:08:28 GMT -5
Not in a bad way but I want kings Landing to burn sooo bad. Blow that shit up cersei!!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 5:10:36 GMT -5
Losing the Ironborn fleet, the Reach and the Dorne seems to be alot more than thousands of the Lannisters forces. Cersei still has a lot of her army, Euron's forces and newly Golden Company. Dany doesn't lose the Reach, she hands Jaime his ass there and her people take it over. She loses the Martell's but we don't know about the rest of Dorne... So, by episode seven Jon and Dany control the North, The Reach, The Vale, The Riverlands and potentially the Stormlands with Gendry's help while Cersei controls King's Landing, Pyke and Dorne is up for grabs. Dany's army will be mostly intact in the she had 108,000 to begin with and will probably still have 90,000 by the end of the season and she'll still have two dragons. The only reason they don't take over King's Landing is because Cersei is holding it hostage sitting on a pile of Wildfire The Reach as Tyrells are gone, well Olenna. Tyrells forces were probably decimated during the sack of Highgarden, followed by Dany's victory. They'll try to even it out between Dany and Cersei because they made Dany look too strong - by losing the Tyrells, the Martells and the Ironborn fleet. We have no idea what will happen to the Riverlands - apart from Arya killing all the Freys and freeing Edmure. The Iron Islands are still Euron's by all accounts.
Shouldn't we say just Dany? Jon submitted the control of the North, the Vale to Dany - technically speaking she rules these kingdoms.
Controling the North, the Vale, let's say the Reach and Dorne. Cersei on the other hand has the Westerlands apart from Casterly Rock, then the Unsullied are going to fight the white walkers up to the North. Cersei and Euron also have the Iron Islands, the Crownlands and the Stormlands are up for grabs. Golden Company services were bought by Cersei or Euron? Can't remember that part.
When you look at Cersei's position at the start of the season, she 100% should have lost this war fairly quickly but managed to remain in relative solid power position. Not worse or better than at the beginning. She was an underdog in this fight.
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Post by katjushka on May 31, 2017 0:41:17 GMT -5
Not in a bad way but I want kings Landing to burn sooo bad. Blow that shit up cersei!! Yeah. Sorry peasents but your city needs to burn.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on May 31, 2017 9:36:30 GMT -5
Not in a bad way but I want kings Landing to burn sooo bad. Blow that shit up cersei!! Yeah. Sorry peasents but your city needs to burn. Well, so much has been made about all the wildfire under the city, and how Aerys was going to 'burn them all'. That was no where near everything under the Sept, or KL would already be ash. That's actually my only complaint about that scene. Greek fire, which wildfire is based upon, sticks to everything and burns with ferocity. More than half the city should have burned in that stunt before it could be managed. Perhaps that's how the population problem in KL is solved, but if so, it wasn't explained in the show. Anyway, I had a wildfire dream, that the NK and the rest were lured into KL and then Jamie ignites the remaining wildfire under the city, blowing up an army of over 100,000 ice zombies along with the walkers and the NK. Nothing survives except pieces of dragonglass. Maybe that's why they have to take care of Cersei - they need that wildfire as two dragons won't be quite enough, and that's the twist to Season 8. Dany and Jon end up fighting a war on two fronts, and they decide to take care of both problems at once. Jamie sneaks into the city, goes to Cersei and finds her with Euron. He kills both, after telling Cersei everything he's ever hated about her, then lights the wildfire to redeem his honor.
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