Lordimp
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Post by Lordimp on Aug 6, 2017 19:53:49 GMT -5
Stannis is about march on Winterfell to take it from the Boltons. Stannis has much better odds in the books than he had on the show.
Stannis has support from the mountain clans, the Mormonts and Mors Umber and his greenboys in addition to his own army and sellswords. If I remember correctly Stannis has in total 8k soldiers while the Boltons have around the same.
Justin Massey is in Braavos to get Stannis even more sellswords.
Boltons have supports of Manderly , Frey , Dustin , Ryswell , Locke and Hother Umber. They also have support from the Karstarks but Arnolf and Cregan Karstark are both prisoners now.
There is reason to question the loyalty of houses backing Bolton. Wyman Manderly has promised Davos to back Stannis if he retrives Rickon from Skagos . Barbrey Dustin dislikes Ramsay because Ramsay killed her nephew Domeric Bolton. Domeric was part Ryswell so we can question Ryswells loyalty aswell.
In early TWOW we will probably witness the Freys and the Manderlys attacking Stannis'camp. Pretty sure Stannis defeats the Frey army , but what about the Manderlys? Stannis thinks Wyman killed Davos so there is a fair chance that Stannis will attack the Manderly force.
Then we have the pink letter sent by Ramsay. Apparently Stannis has been defeated and killed. Can we trust this?
Stannis lost and died on the show , but then again he had bad odds on the show.
D&D has said that Stannis burning Shireen was one of three WTF moments revealed to them by GRRM. So Stannis will burn Shireen at some point. Could he do this after being defeated by Bolton? Or will this happen later?
Imo I think Stannis wins , but Jon will be King in the North and he cant be that as long as Stannis is alive.
What do you think TWOW has in store for Stannis?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 5:01:36 GMT -5
I think the broad strokes on the Northern storyline in S6 will match that of TWoW.
Stannis will lose against the Boltons and fail to reclaim Winterfell. Imo this has to happen, as Winterfell should be reclaimed by the Starks. No one should take it back on their behalf. After Stannis loses, he will retreat to Castle Black and sacrifice his daughter to the Lord of Light. Shireen's sacrifice will instead power Jon's resurrection and Jon, disgusted by Stannis, executes him alongside the mutineers.
Somewhere along the way, Jon gains the loyalties of various northern houses and sets to attack Winterfell himself to take it back from Ramsay. The book equivalent of SNOWBOWL takes place and Jon's side appears to br losing until, in true GRRM fashion, Sansa arrives in the nick of time with the KotV and Ramsay is finished. Winterfell is finally back in the hands of House Stark and Jon is declares KitN.
Ultimately, I don't think Stannis will be all that relevant in TWoW. His time is almost up.
I'm also unsure of how Rickon will fit into this? But I assume that somewhere down the line, he dies.
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Lordimp
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Post by Lordimp on Aug 7, 2017 7:31:31 GMT -5
I think the broad strokes on the Northern storyline in S6 will match that of TWoW. Stannis will lose against the Boltons and fail to reclaim Winterfell. Imo this has to happen, as Winterfell should be reclaimed by the Starks. No one should take it back on their behalf. After Stannis loses, he will retreat to Castle Black and sacrifice his daughter to the Lord of Light. Shireen's sacrifice will instead power Jon's resurrection and Jon, disgusted by Stannis, executes him alongside the mutineers. Somewhere along the way, Jon gains the loyalties of various northern houses and sets to attack Winterfell himself to take it back from Ramsay. The book equivalent of SNOWBOWL takes place and Jon's side appears to br losing until, in true GRRM fashion, Sansa arrives in the nick of time with the KotV and Ramsay is finished. Winterfell is finally back in the hands of House Stark and Jon is declares KitN. Ultimately, I don't think Stannis will be all that relevant in TWoW. His time is almost up. I'm also unsure of how Rickon will fit into this? But I assume that somewhere down the line, he dies. Rickon will definetly die at some point. Not because of Ramsay . I read a theory that Littlefinger poisons him . |
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Post by mattpeto on Aug 7, 2017 23:27:59 GMT -5
I wonder if we will ever see this book.
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Aug 7, 2017 23:30:23 GMT -5
I wonder if we will ever see this book. and by the time we actually do, how many of us will still care |
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Aug 7, 2017 23:34:35 GMT -5
I wonder if we will ever see this book. If we're lucky, between S7 and S8. Last off-season of the series, could help with the wait, but then I almost doubt it. |
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Aug 7, 2017 23:58:10 GMT -5
If we're lucky, between S7 and S8. Last off-season of the series, could help with the wait, but then I almost doubt it. If season 8 airs during the same time of year as season 7, then there is no chance WINDS will come out before that. If it gets postponed to to late 2018 or early 2019, then maybe. |
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Post by Diablotion on Aug 8, 2017 2:23:53 GMT -5
Do you guys really think that we will have two battles at Winterfell in the books?
The end result is going to be same. But I believe that Stannis might win at Winterfell, but fail to take the Dreadfort and die. Melisandre panics and burns Shireen and then Jon is resurrected. Jon rushes south and finishes the job that Stannis started. Jon is declared KitN before Sansa because of Robb's will.
Perhaps Stannis hears of the White walkers after the battle and he rushes back to the wall?
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Aug 8, 2017 3:53:05 GMT -5
Melisandre panics and burns Shireen and then Jon is resurrected. This theory has been sporadically discussed but in my opinion, does not get enough focus. Even Elio considered this as a possibility on his channel. Without doubt, Jon's resurrection in WINDS will be under different circumstances than on the show. Stannis falls during the Battle Of Ice. Mel panics and sacrifices Shireen in hope of resurrecting "her lord", which she thinks is Stannis. Instead Jon comes back. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 6:42:53 GMT -5
Do you guys really think that we will have two battles at Winterfell in the books? The end result is going to be same. But I believe that Stannis might win at Winterfell, but fail to take the Dreadfort and die. Melisandre panics and burns Shireen and then Jon is resurrected. Jon rushes south and finishes the job that Stannis started. Jon is declared KitN before Sansa because of Robb's will. Perhaps Stannis hears of the White walkers after the battle and he rushes back to the wall? Two battles at Winterfell makes more sense to me than having a second and third at the Dreadfort. Stannis won't win at Winterfell. He has no business reclaiming that castle and if he does, it will have no dramatic weight. He means nothing to Winterfell, House Stark or the North. The Starks taking the castle back on the show was a monumental moment of victory. One that this family is owed. Stannis doing it for them completely undercuts that, especially since the Grand Northern Conspiracy is probably a thing in the books. The Boltons also need a victory to show that they are actually a threat, and losing WF early into book 6 paints an entirely different picture. I think it's also worth pointing out that the battle at Winterfell was supposed to take place in ADwD, so grrm didn't originally intend for two battles at Winterfell in the same book. |
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Post by Diablotion on Aug 8, 2017 6:56:55 GMT -5
After Stannis loses, he will retreat to Castle Black and sacrifice his daughter to the Lord of Light. Shireen's sacrifice will instead power Jon's resurrection and Jon, disgusted by Stannis, executes him alongside the mutineers. Somewhere along the way, Jon gains the loyalties of various northern houses and sets to attack Winterfell himself to take it back from Ramsay. The book equivalent of SNOWBOWL takes place and Jon's side appears to br losing until, in true GRRM fashion, Sansa arrives in the nick of time with the KotV and Ramsay is finished. Winterfell is finally back in the hands of House Stark and Jon is declares KitN. Ultimately, I don't think Stannis will be all that relevant in TWoW. His time is almost up. I'm also unsure of how Rickon will fit into this? But I assume that somewhere down the line, he dies. Do you guys really think that we will have two battles at Winterfell in the books? The end result is going to be same. But I believe that Stannis might win at Winterfell, but fail to take the Dreadfort and die. Melisandre panics and burns Shireen and then Jon is resurrected. Jon rushes south and finishes the job that Stannis started. Jon is declared KitN before Sansa because of Robb's will. Perhaps Stannis hears of the White walkers after the battle and he rushes back to the wall? Two battles at Winterfell makes more sense to me than having a second and third at the Dreadfort. Stannis won't win at Winterfell. He has no business reclaiming that castle and if he does, it will have no dramatic weight. He means nothing to Winterfell, House Stark or the North. The Starks taking the castle back on the show was a monumental moment of victory. One that this family is owed. Stannis doing it for them completely undercuts that, especially since the Grand Northern Conspiracy is probably a thing in the books. The Boltons also need a victory to show that they are actually a threat, and losing WF early into book 6 paints an entirely different picture. I think it's also worth pointing out that the battle at Winterfell was supposed to take place in ADwD, so grrm didn't originally intend for two battles at Winterfell in the same book. Stannis won't retreat anymore. He will liberate Winterfell or die in attempt. This is what he said. The show also had him say similar lines. This is it for him. He might win the battle outside and hear that the walkers are coming and then he marches back and then sacrifices Shireen so that he gets strength against the walkers.. and then he dies in battle. SNOWBOWL might be similar to the one on the show. If there is going to be two battles at Winterfell. Manderly will turn against Boltons to join Stannis, but they might still lose. The Northern houses who supported Stannis will be punished and no one wants to join Jon because they have already lost so much. Sigh.. no more Rohirrim charges.. please. (GRRM likes them a bit too much). These have been discussed in the Northern conspiracy thread on this board, so I won't speculate on the Northern situation too much. Davos bringing Rickon could bind him to team Stark after Stannis's death. Jon is dead already and he won't stay dead long enough for Stannis to return to the wall anyway. Jon is going to come back quite quickly before he becomes something similar to LSH.. and Jon executing Stannis with the mutineers would be a really anticlimactic ending for Stannis. |
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Lordimp
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Post by Lordimp on Aug 8, 2017 7:41:03 GMT -5
I think Stannis dies taking Winterfell , Mel burns Shireen , Jon comes back and marches south. Rickon dies at some point and Jon is declared KITN.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 9, 2017 7:58:21 GMT -5
I don't even know anymore. I always thought he'd win it, but I definitely don't think he'd retreat. That's not him. He'd die in attempt like Diablotion said. On the flip side, I get what @fireandblood is saying too and I agree that a Stark winning Winterfell would have more weight. But what army would Jon use? Would some of Stannis' army flee when they lose? I'm not sure how to fill in the blanks here.  |
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Aug 9, 2017 12:48:02 GMT -5
It comes down to the pink letter being legit or not. Presumably, in Winds, we likely witness that battle from Asha's POV, so if Stannis does fall in battle, I would think that his and the northern armies who are left would eventually follow Jon. Plus you have Littlefinger promising Sansa in her last AFFC chapter to reclaim her family home so that could also come into play. So as @fireandblood said, I think there are some broad strokes there from the show, but in the books, it will be a lot more fleshed out because of the Grand Northern Conspiracy, etc.
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Lordimp
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Post by Lordimp on Aug 10, 2017 7:57:21 GMT -5
I don't even know anymore. I always thought he'd win it, but I definitely don't think he'd retreat. That's not him. He'd die in attempt like Diablotion said. On the flip side, I get what @fireandblood is saying too and I agree that a Stark winning Winterfell would have more weight. But what army would Jon use? Would some of Stannis' army flee when they lose? I'm not sure how to fill in the blanks here. Davos probably returns with Rickon. And Rickon might have an army of angry skagosi warriors , that would be helpful for Jon. |
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