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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 17:31:51 GMT -5
I have to say I friggin loved the scene with Dany and Tyrion and how it went from politics to mortality (!) and succession. Did we know about this scene in advance? I don't recall reading about it and it took me completely off guard.
For me, this scene illuminated Dany as a character and made me understand her like I had never done before. She's always been so focused on the idea of this great future she is going to build, but when confronted with the reality of her legacy's future and what this entails, she almost seemed lost. It was a genuinely touching, human moment for her. I think this is the first time someone confronts her with the prospect of her own mortality and this is a place she really is not ready to go yet in her mind. I thought Clarke handled the vulnerability and confusion of the scene beautifully.
This scene is almost the heart of the episode in a way because when Dany sees Viserion die, that is once again the shock of her own mortality hitting her for the first time. And it's incredibly powerful because she is a character that we fully associate with life (unlike Jon, she doesn't see life as a burden).
This is the episode that made Dany click for me. When I read the leaks, I feared that she and Jon would go into superhero "let's save the world" mode, but this was much deeper. Dany takes the Night King (and by extension, death) as a personal affront. She refuses to go down that way. I think this is what drives her on a deeper level. And because she is a queen, her personal drive will become a collective drive.
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Post by daeronthegood on Aug 17, 2017 17:47:43 GMT -5
I love the that Tormund is in awe of Daenerys, he looks positively shook when she comes in on Drogon and Jon shoves him aside, like that's my woman! LOL.
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Post by nikma on Aug 17, 2017 17:48:02 GMT -5
I'm not unhappy with the season, I'm loving it a great deal. It was just an observation on what I consider a weak spot in the storytelling. I think the show just needed more explanation how Cersei can hide in hidden tunnels and destroying the Red Keep won't be enough. They would need to burn everything. We could even get a scene later with only Tyrion and Varys where we see that one of the main reasons why Tyrion is against direct attack is because he wants to find a way to win in this war and not kill Jaime. And Jon should say that there is no time for siege now, because WW are comming. So I wouldn't change anything in plot I would just have that line from outline where Varys said in E2 that he lost his little birds and I would make clear that Tyrion's hidden motive is protecting Jaime. So Tyrion's real plan is too weaken the Lannisters that much that they need to capitulate and than he thinks he can convince Dany to pardon Jaime. The WW would ruin this plan.
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Post by Lils on Aug 17, 2017 17:55:05 GMT -5
I love the that Tormund is in awe of Daenerys, he looks positively shook when she comes in on Drogon and Jon shoves him aside, like that's my woman! LOL. I saw a gif set that called that scene: Jon "that's my girlfriend, guys" Snow. That's the moment that he said "Screw it, I want her!"
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Post by Maesteress on Aug 17, 2017 18:26:06 GMT -5
Kit Harington, via Jon Snow, has taken more than one hit at his height/stature these last two episodes. It was funny the first time Gendry said it, but it became a little redundant. I'm assuming that when Dany said that he is too little for her, she maybe meant little minded? Anyone else interpret her meaning? It confused me. I didn't like the double entendre although I get that it was a lead in to Tyrion's own height challenges.
Was she just fishing for a reason not to admit her own feelings for him?
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 17, 2017 20:17:57 GMT -5
I have to say I friggin loved the scene with Dany and Tyrion and how it went from politics to mortality (!) and succession. Did we know about this scene in advance? I don't recall reading about it and it took me completely off guard. For me, this scene illuminated Dany as a character and made me understand her like I had never done before. She's always been so focused on the idea of this great future she is going to build, but when confronted with the reality of her legacy's future and what this entails, she almost seemed lost. It was a genuinely touching, human moment for her. I think this is the first time someone confronts her with the prospect of her own mortality and this is a place she really is not ready to go yet in her mind. I thought Clarke handled the vulnerability and confusion of the scene beautifully. This scene is almost the heart of the episode in a way because when Dany sees Viserion die, that is once again the shock of her own mortality hitting her for the first time. And it's incredibly powerful because she is a character that we fully associate with life (unlike Jon, she doesn't see life as a burden). This is the episode that made Dany click for me. When I read the leaks, I feared that she and Jon would go into superhero "let's save the world" mode, but this was much deeper. Dany takes the Night King (and by extension, death) as a personal affront. She refuses to go down that way. I think this is what drives her on a deeper level. And because she is a queen, her personal drive will become a collective drive. I think Jon is burdened " heavy weigh's the head that wears the crown." Ypu ever notice that Jon and Dany are not happy people, they both have a strong sense of duty. They both have good hearts, and they both feel very alone. The episode goes to the heart of this matter of life for Jon and Dany. In begins in the north, with Gendry and Beric, this ones died 6 times you don't here him bitching about it. Then it moves to Jon and Jorah talking about their fathers. When Jorah returns Longclaw to Jon he says may it serve you well, and your children after you. Look at the look on Jon's face. Later Tormund is talking to the hound about when he was a baby, then he starts talking about Wanting to have children. After that Jon is talking to Beric about Jon's mother and father. Jon really wants to know why is here?Whats my purpose. Beric doesn't know but gives him his perspective, "we are soldiers we have to know what we are fighting for." What are we fighting for? Life. That's heavy burden. The shield that guards the realm of men. Maybe that's enough? The question left floating around is it. It's very noble and a great sense of Duty and Jon and Dany have both been doing that for some time. They both fight monsters. But the question is it enough. Aemon Targaryen once said love is the death of duty. What is duty compared to love or a child? I think he is right, duty is nothing compared to love. Do fight because duty, because you took an oath? Or do you fight to protect the ones love? Dany doesn't know the north? She didn't go into the north to save her sense of duty. She went to protect the one she loves. They have their duty to protect life? But in the end I don't think that is what they are fighting for. I don't think to duty is enough. And all the talk of Children? Well will see how that issue resolves itself.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Aug 17, 2017 20:19:13 GMT -5
Kit Harington, via Jon Snow, has taken more than one hit at his height/stature these last two episodes. It was funny the first time Gendry said it, but it became a little redundant. I'm assuming that when Dany said that he is too little for her, she maybe meant little minded? Anyone else interpret her meaning? It confused me. I didn't like the double entendre although I get that it was a lead in to Tyrion's own height challenges. Was she just fishing for a reason not to admit her own feelings for him? Drogo and Daario were both extremely tall men. Jorah is shorter than the "D" boys but taller than Jon.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 20:52:39 GMT -5
I have to say I friggin loved the scene with Dany and Tyrion and how it went from politics to mortality (!) and succession. Did we know about this scene in advance? I don't recall reading about it and it took me completely off guard. For me, this scene illuminated Dany as a character and made me understand her like I had never done before. She's always been so focused on the idea of this great future she is going to build, but when confronted with the reality of her legacy's future and what this entails, she almost seemed lost. It was a genuinely touching, human moment for her. I think this is the first time someone confronts her with the prospect of her own mortality and this is a place she really is not ready to go yet in her mind. I thought Clarke handled the vulnerability and confusion of the scene beautifully. This scene is almost the heart of the episode in a way because when Dany sees Viserion die, that is once again the shock of her own mortality hitting her for the first time. And it's incredibly powerful because she is a character that we fully associate with life (unlike Jon, she doesn't see life as a burden). This is the episode that made Dany click for me. When I read the leaks, I feared that she and Jon would go into superhero "let's save the world" mode, but this was much deeper. Dany takes the Night King (and by extension, death) as a personal affront. She refuses to go down that way. I think this is what drives her on a deeper level. And because she is a queen, her personal drive will become a collective drive. I think Jon is burdened " heavy weigh's the head that wears the crown." Ypu ever notice that Jon and Dany are not happy people, they both have a strong sense of duty. They both have good hearts, and they both feel very alone. The episode goes to the heart of this matter of life for Jon and Dany. In begins in the north, with Gendry and Beric, this ones died 6 times you don't here him bitching about it. Then it moves to Jon and Jorah talking about their fathers. When Jorah returns Longclaw to Jon he says may it serve you well, and your children after you. Look at the look on Jon's face. Later Tormund is talking to the hound about when he was a baby, then he starts talking about Wanting to have children. After that Jon is talking to Beric about Jon's mother and father. Jon really wants to know why is here?Whats my purpose. Beric doesn't know but gives him his perspective, "we are soldiers we have to know what we are fighting for." What are we fighting for? Life. That's heavy burden. The shield that guards the realm of men. Maybe that's enough? The question left floating around is it. It's very noble and a great sense of Duty and Jon and Dany have both been doing that for some time. They both fight monsters. But the question is it enough. Aemon Targaryen once said love is the death of duty. What is duty compared to love or a child? I think he is right, duty is nothing compared to love. Do fight because duty, because you took an oath? Or do you fight to protect the ones love? Dany doesn't know the north? She didn't go into the north to save her sense of duty. She went to protect the one she loves. They have their duty to protect life? But in the end I don't think that is what they are fighting for. I don't think to duty is enough. And all the talk of Children? Well will see how that issue resolves itself. I agree: duty is not enough. Jon especially needs to get this. Boatsex is a step in the right direction.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 22:30:41 GMT -5
So is this the political map after episode 7?
The North = Dany (assuming the Northern Lords accept this) The Vale = Neutral/Unknown (Jon said nothing about the Vale to Dany) The Riverlands = Cersei The Westerlands = Cersei (the Unsullied abandon the Rock, right?) The Iron Islands = Euron The Crownlands = Cersei The Reach = Dany The Stormlands = Cersei Dorne = Neutral/Unknown
That's 4 for Cersei, 2 for Dany and 1 for Euron, but I think Dany could get the Vale and the Riverlands with relative ease. Edmure would definitely bend the knee. Robin Arryn is such a wildcard that he might not (this would be a hilarious scene, Dany vs. Robin). If she pulls this off, it will be 3 for Cersei, 4 for Dany and 1 for Euron.
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 17, 2017 22:36:24 GMT -5
So is this the political map after episode 7? The North = Dany (assuming the Northern Lords accept this) The Vale = Neutral/Unknown (Jon said nothing about the Vale to Dany) The Riverlands = Cersei The Westerlands = Cersei (the Unsullied abandon the Rock, right?) The Iron Islands = Euron The Crownlands = Cersei The Reach = Dany The Stormlands = Cersei Dorne = Neutral/Unknown If Dany legitimizes Gendry and one of Oberyn's remaining daughters (for poetic reasons hopefully Elia) she could get the last two pretty quickly. The same can be said for getting Edmure on-side, given that the Freys are gone. Dany could make those moves pretty early in s8. The real question is would Sam accept the Reach from Dany after what she did to his brother.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Aug 17, 2017 22:38:47 GMT -5
Edmure would definitely bend the knee. Speaking of Edmure, pretty obvious now we won't see him this season. However, I wonder with Jaime leaving Cersei traveling north at the end of this season, that he could be the one to give Riverrun back to him and then have the Riverlands join Jon and Dany. It could be a good way opening scene for Jaime and then he gathers what's left of the Tully forces including the rest of the houses and bring them to Winterfell.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 22:42:23 GMT -5
So is this the political map after episode 7? The North = Dany (assuming the Northern Lords accept this) The Vale = Neutral/Unknown (Jon said nothing about the Vale to Dany) The Riverlands = Cersei The Westerlands = Cersei (the Unsullied abandon the Rock, right?) The Iron Islands = Euron The Crownlands = Cersei The Reach = Dany The Stormlands = Cersei Dorne = Neutral/Unknown If Dany legitimizes Gendry and one of Oberyn's remaining daughters (for poetic reasons hopefully Elia) she could get the last two pretty quickly. The same can be said for getting Edmure on-side, given that the Freys are gone. Dany could make those moves pretty early in s8. The real question is would Sam accept the Reach from Dany after what she did to his brother.I'm sure Jon could convince him.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 22:45:01 GMT -5
So is this the political map after episode 7? The North = Dany (assuming the Northern Lords accept this) The Vale = Neutral/Unknown (Jon said nothing about the Vale to Dany) The Riverlands = Cersei The Westerlands = Cersei (the Unsullied abandon the Rock, right?) The Iron Islands = Euron The Crownlands = Cersei The Reach = Dany The Stormlands = Cersei Dorne = Neutral/Unknown If Dany legitimizes Gendry and one of Oberyn's remaining daughters (for poetic reasons hopefully Elia) she could get the last two pretty quickly. The same can be said for getting Edmure on-side, given that the Freys are gone. Dany could make those moves pretty early in s8. The real question is would Sam accept the Reach from Dany after what she did to his brother. You're right about Gendry, that seems like something that's bound to happen. And the Sam problem will be interesting. I have a feeling Dorne won't be mentioned again but if they want to they could just say someone loyal to Dany rules there now. Wouldn't this be a violation of the dragonpit terms, though? If Cersei agrees to cooperate (even though secretly she won't), can Dany keep demanding that other regions bend the knee? I'm not sure what the exact terms of the parlay are.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Aug 17, 2017 22:48:59 GMT -5
Edmure would definitely bend the knee. Speaking of Edmure, pretty obvious now we won't see him this season. However, I wonder with Jaime leaving Cersei traveling north at the end of this season, that he could be the one to give Riverrun back to him and then have the Riverlands join Jon and Dany. It could be a good way opening scene for Jaime and then he gathers what's left of the Tully forces including the rest of the houses and bring them to Winterfell. Yeah, this would be a great opening scene for Jaime in s8. His story has had connections with the Riverlands since way back in s1.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 17, 2017 23:01:39 GMT -5
Sort of on topic:
With Jaime leaving, wtf is Bronn gonna do? He's no fan of Cersei, and we know Lena and Jerome have beef (allegedly, anyway), so I can't imagine him sticking around and chilling with her.
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