sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 29, 2017 23:28:46 GMT -5
Well when you value you something like this show and think it is being dismissed on ludicrous grounds by intellectually dishonest lazy critiques from the fandom intelligentsia, one tends to get defensive. Particularly when it's not just in places like ASOIAF reddit and the dozen or so shitty youtube pundits drivel-videos but here in our backyard. I mean if we bother maintaining a site like this and have a ratings section, we have to at least take that semi-seriously. But whatever. Yes. The concern I have with extreme low voting is that it reminds too much of.. other places. Places where people voted 1's and 2's just because it's not the books so it's shit. I do not want that here, there is a reason I left the fandom and only resurfaced after finding out about a certain isle of tranquility. I love the show and only want to join in the conversation on show friendly forums, which we certainly are. That doesn't mean everyone has to vote ten and just praise the show, it doesn't even mean everyone has to like every episode. But I would really like it if everyone here at least had a positive relation to the show, hate watching is not for this forum. Then again, who am I to say anything. I just think most of us can pick up on those subtle things that remind us of other places and we get a bit defensive. Other places are in ruins now, we are thriving Sure everyone is entitled to an opinion, to speak their mind, to think what they want. They should feel free to express that opinion at anytime. But hating to hate is another matter. I personally find the two funny. Someone hated the episode that much but it's not a 1, they gave it a 2 cause you know they don't want anyone thinking they lack objectivity or have any kind of bias. Maybe they liked the opening credits
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katjushka
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Post by katjushka on Aug 29, 2017 23:37:46 GMT -5
Maybe they liked the opening credits
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 6:15:18 GMT -5
I just don't understand the phenomenon of hate-watching. If I would ever think that lowly about anything, I just wouldn't watch. And yet there are whole fandoms built around hate-watching and the online pile-on of it all and railing against shows and everyone involved in them. Obviously if that's how someone wants to spend their time, more power to them. But in the end that kind of negativity can't be healthy. If the 2 is genuine, I don't think not liking one episode can be considered hate-watching. They've presumably watched the other 6 without a problem. But I agree with your wider point: if I stop liking or can't get into a show, I just won't watch it.
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lordcarson
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Post by lordcarson on Aug 30, 2017 7:49:46 GMT -5
With the 2: 7x01: 8.52 7x02: 9.00 7x03: 9.26 7x04: 9.74 7x05: 7.83 7x06: 9.09 7x07: 9.17 Without the 2: 7x01: 8.52 7x02: 9.00 7x03: 9.26 7x04: 9.74 7x05: 7.83 7x06: 9.09 7x07: 9.34
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sand0r
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Post by sand0r on Aug 30, 2017 8:08:46 GMT -5
2 right here! Count it or not if you want, it's called voicing an opinion.
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stannisforking299al
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Post by stannisforking299al on Aug 30, 2017 8:09:27 GMT -5
Meh. Some people rate on single scenes, or the lack of a scene. Others rate it as a whole, others rank it compared to the rest of the series. I personally rate on a combination of the latter two with a large focus on continuity. Some people don't care too much about that and just rank on personal enjoyment which is fair enough since at the end of the day, it's a personal rating. People seem to put far too much energy into focusing on what other people think of it. I'd rather rank an episode that other people thought was good or bad a little lower or a little higher, if that was how I felt, and so should you. At the end of the day, this entire thing is subjective. nah a 2 is stupid You've kind of just proved my point.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 30, 2017 8:13:00 GMT -5
2 right here! Count it or not if you want, it's called voicing an opinion. Wow, that's surprising! I read back over your other votes and the posts you made for the entire season and they were all great. What happened that brought 8's, 9's and 10's down so low for you in the finale? I respect your opinion just didn't expect that from someone who generally seems to have enjoyed the season.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 30, 2017 8:29:24 GMT -5
Me @ this entire exchange
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 8:41:57 GMT -5
2 right here! Count it or not if you want, it's called voicing an opinion. Well, you clicked an opinion. You didn't really voice anything. Anyway...either way 704 is still the highest rated episode. Which I'm fine with.
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sand0r
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Post by sand0r on Aug 30, 2017 9:26:46 GMT -5
2 right here! Count it or not if you want, it's called voicing an opinion. Wow, that's surprising! I read back over your other votes and the posts you made for the entire season and they were all great. What happened that brought 8's, 9's and 10's down so low for you in the finale? I respect your opinion just didn't expect that from someone who generally seems to have enjoyed the season. Oh yes, it's true. I've been supportive of the showrunners' efforts up until this point and even through this ridiculously paced season but the finale was a serious letdown for me. It's the writer in me; pacing is huge as are choices and actions that make some logical sense. This season, I watched feeling like my intelligence was being insulted the whole time as the showrunners seemed to have forgotten things they had established, not GRRM, and of course, characters did as well. So I'll go through a few points and try to be succinct about that low score . Adding that I now see this last bit was a total failure, but I tried: *Meeting 1a in the Dragonpit: what was that? Either Cersei pitched a fit about the requirements of the truce for no reason because she is nuts or it was more faux drama. What did she really expect to gain by asking Jon to stay in the North? *Cersei and Tyrion: he took responsibility for the death of her two normal children, one of whom he actually sent to Dorne to protect, but the showrunners seem to have forgotten about that. Tyrion's been making some pretty idiotic choices of late, so fine, I went with it as part of the plan to get her back to the bargaining table by smoothing things over between them. But it made a mockery of who Tyrion knew himself to be or had been presented. *Cersei's brilliant plan: how long is she banking on Jon and Dany not noticing that no Lannister soldiers have shown up in the North next season? The woman who thought several steps ahead to send Euron to fetch the GC won't send even a paltry few soldiers to give an appearance of things and buy more time? Two steps forward and ten back. "No one walks away from me." Except two brothers she apparently can't kill despite her absolute abhorrence of one and thinking that the other is the stupidest Lannister she's ever known (thought that had been settled S4 with cousin Orson Lannister and the beetles, but whatever). *Jon as Aegon Targaryen VII: I won't go into parents naming new babies for recently dead babies by dead women who've been left by the husband, again. I'll just wait for the canon explanation of what happened there. *Resolution of Stark drama offscreen: "Haha! Aren't you surprised, audience?" I didn't need Bran to see Ned's betrayal and communicate that event to his sisters outright but this was faux suspense and cheap. *Targ boatsex: I'm glad it was included to plant the seed, pun intended, of the next generation. I love the tension between characters, sexual and otherwise, so I place heavy demands on chemistry or antagonism being fulfilled. Unfortunately, the scene was lackluster when the promise of something as hot as dragon fire or wildfire had been in their interactions with each other, but the consequences are more important anyway so... *The NK: he's the monster villain or like nature. Can't be reasoned with, so fine. He marched an army south to invade; did he know he was going to end up with an ice dragon as part of his master plan to breach the Wall? God, I hope so because otherwise, there was no master plan. Most good villains have one. IF, if, all that happened this season becomes canon and the next two books unfold like the show... wow. Sad. But be assured, this season wasn't a total letdown. The Hound's smile of fatherly approval about Arya's survival; Bronn, Tyrion and Podrick getting the band back together briefly; Jaime's arc is back; LF's death, and again, Jon and and Dany potentially creating the next generation of Targs alone ensures I'll certainly be back for season 8. There's also the writer in me who finishes things I've started. I just hold low expectations: with an even shorter season, it will be crap too.
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Post by sand0r on Aug 30, 2017 9:28:28 GMT -5
2 right here! Count it or not if you want, it's called voicing an opinion. Well, you clicked an opinion. You didn't really voice anything. Well, we'll agree to disagree on whether polls are opinions.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 30, 2017 9:45:44 GMT -5
Wow, that's surprising! I read back over your other votes and the posts you made for the entire season and they were all great. What happened that brought 8's, 9's and 10's down so low for you in the finale? I respect your opinion just didn't expect that from someone who generally seems to have enjoyed the season. Oh yes, it's true. I've been supportive of the showrunners' efforts up until this point and even through this ridiculously paced season but the finale was a serious letdown for me. It's the writer in me; pacing is huge as are choices and actions that make some logical sense. This season, I watched feeling like my intelligence was being insulted the whole time as the showrunners seemed to have forgotten things they had established, not GRRM, and of course, characters did as well. So I'll go through a few points and try to be succinct about that low score . Adding that I now see this last bit was a total failure, but I tried: *Meeting 1a in the Dragonpit: what was that? Either Cersei pitched a fit about the requirements of the truce for no reason because she is nuts or it was more faux drama. What did she really expect to gain by asking Jon to stay in the North? *Cersei and Tyrion: he took responsibility for the death of her two normal children, one of whom he actually sent to Dorne to protect, but the showrunners seem to have forgotten about that. Tyrion's been making some pretty idiotic choices of late, so fine, I went with it as part of the plan to get her back to the bargaining table by smoothing things over between them. But it made a mockery of who Tyrion knew himself to be or had been presented. *Cersei's brilliant plan: how long is she banking on Jon and Dany not noticing that no Lannister soldiers have shown up in the North next season? The woman who thought several steps ahead to send Euron to fetch the GC won't send even a paltry few soldiers to give an appearance of things and buy more time? Two steps forward and ten back. "No one walks away from me." Except two brothers she apparently can't kill despite her absolute abhorrence of one and thinking that the other is the stupidest Lannister she's ever known (thought that had been settled S4 with cousin Orson Lannister and the beetles, but whatever). *Jon as Aegon Targaryen VII: I won't go into parents naming new babies for recently dead babies by dead women who've been left by the husband, again. I'll just wait for the canon explanation of what happened there. *Resolution of Stark drama offscreen: "Haha! Aren't you surprised, audience?" I didn't need Bran to see Ned's betrayal and communicate that event to his sisters outright but this was faux suspense and cheap. *Targ boatsex: I'm glad it was included to plant the seed, pun intended, of the next generation. I love the tension between characters, sexual and otherwise, so I place heavy demands on chemistry or antagonism being fulfilled. Unfortunately, the scene was lackluster when the promise of something as hot as dragon fire or wildfire had been in their interactions with each other, but the consequences are more important anyway so... *The NK: he's the monster villain or like nature. Can't be reasoned with, so fine. He marched an army south to invade; did he know he was going to end up with an ice dragon as part of his master plan to breach the Wall? God, I hope so because otherwise, there was no master plan. Most good villains have one. IF, if, all that happened this season becomes canon and the next two books unfold like the show... wow. Sad. But be assured, this season wasn't a total letdown. The Hound's smile of fatherly approval about Arya's survival; Bronn, Tyrion and Podrick getting the band back together briefly; Jaime's arc is back; LF's death, and again, Jon and and Dany potentially creating the next generation of Targs alone ensures I'll certainly be back for season 8. There's also the writer in me who finishes things I've started. I just hold low expectations: with an even shorter season, it will be crap too. I appreciate you taking the time to outline your objections to the finale, that's more than some do and your objections are all weighty ones, not minor nitpicks for the most part. I've seen some of these same criticisms in reviews of the season. In fact, I actually agree with you on some of your major points, particularly the odd way they've portrayed Tyrion as hand to Daenerys. There are some theorizing he's going to betray her and this season was the foreshadowing of that. I don't know how I feel about that theory but I do know he really seems off his game, even with the usual wit and wisdom he has injected into every scene. I took the way he was addressing the deaths of Myrcella and Tommen to Cersei as goading. He was trying to get her to admit it wasn't actually his fault even if the decision to send Myrcella to Dorne was his - how could he have known the Sandsnakes would do that? And blaming Tyrion for Tommen's suicide was odd considering it was Cersei's choice of blowing up the Sept with Queen Margaery in there that actually did it. I guess Cersei's point has been that if Tywin was alive, there's no way the High Sparrow would have taken control. The only one I probably disagree with you on overall was the Sansa/Arya plot to catch Littlefinger in a trap and how it was resolved offscreen. If they had made a scene where Bran informs the sisters of all Littlefinger's crimes right down to the catspaw assassin dagger, it would have given away the entire surprise. The show writers want to continue to try and catch the audience off guard and as the show fans get more savvy over the years, that becomes more challenging. I figured it out this was a "test" from Arya back when she threatened Sansa with the dagger and taking her face. That's when I realized something was up behind the scenes. It had to have been after that Bran intervened and while many of us would have liked to see/hear that, they chose to keep it under wraps so that the shock on Littlefinger's face was also shock for the audience. Based on the number of surprised/cheering reactions I saw from youtubers who do that sort of thing as a hobby, it definitely worked. I was annoyed by some of them who seemed to genuinely think Sansa was going to do something to Arya like exile her or something but then I had to stop and realize this was the show writers pulling a good twist scene and the general audience ate it up hook line and sinker. For what they were going for (plot twist), leaving off Bran's inside information and resolution between Arya/Sansa worked. But overall I do respect your feedback and all of your disappointment explanations are valid. Your vote should count as much as all the 10s and I hope Season 8 will do a better job for you!
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Post by MarcusAntonius on Aug 30, 2017 10:04:17 GMT -5
I voted 8. I thought Kings Landing was well done and enjoyed pretty much all of it. Cersei's scenes with her brothers were both highlights. Winterfell was better than it has been all season but still not quite up to par imo. I always thought Littlefingers death would feel like one of the biggest on the show when it happened but I was underwhelmed by it honestly. Loved Arya and Sansa on the battlements though, probably my favorite scene.
Was meh on Theon. Just don't have time for that character at all. I love all the Ned mentions but It was Robb he truly betrayed and Jon calling him a Stark honestly kinda pissed me off. Thought the fight scene with the other iron born douche was pretty lame as well.
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sand0r
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Post by sand0r on Aug 30, 2017 10:09:17 GMT -5
I appreciate you taking the time to outline your objections to the finale, that's more than some do and your objections are all weighty ones, not minor nitpicks for the most part. I've seen some of these same criticisms in reviews of the season. In fact, I actually agree with you on some of your major points, particularly the odd way they've portrayed Tyrion as hand to Daenerys. There are some theorizing he's going to betray her and this season was the foreshadowing of that. I don't know how I feel about that theory but I do know he really seems off his game, even with the usual wit and wisdom he has injected into every scene. I took the way he was addressing the deaths of Myrcella and Tommen to Cersei as goading. He was trying to get her to admit it wasn't actually his fault even if the decision to send Myrcella to Dorne was his - how could he have known the Sandsnakes would do that? And blaming Tyrion for Tommen's suicide was odd considering it was Cersei's choice of blowing up the Sept with Queen Margaery in there that actually did it. I guess Cersei's point has been that if Tywin was alive, there's no way the High Sparrow would have taken control. The only one I probably disagree with you on overall was the Sansa/Arya plot to catch Littlefinger in a trap and how it was resolved offscreen. If they had made a scene where Bran informs the sisters of all Littlefinger's crimes right down to the catspaw assassin dagger, it would have given away the entire surprise. The show writers want to continue to try and catch the audience off guard and as the show fans get more savvy over the years, that becomes more challenging. I figured it out this was a "test" from Arya back when she threatened Sansa with the dagger and taking her face. That's when I realized something was up behind the scenes. It had to have been after that Bran intervened and while many of us would have liked to see/hear that, they chose to keep it under wraps so that the shock on Littlefinger's face was also shock for the audience. Based on the number of surprised/cheering reactions I saw from youtubers who do that sort of thing as a hobby, it definitely worked. I was annoyed by some of them who seemed to genuinely think Sansa was going to do something to Arya like exile her or something but then I had to stop and realize this was the show writers pulling a good twist scene and the general audience ate it up hook line and sinker. For what they were going for (plot twist), leaving off Bran's inside information and resolution between Arya/Sansa worked. But overall I do respect your feedback and all of your disappointment explanations are valid. Your vote should count as much as all the 10s and I hope Season 8 will do a better job for you! Thanks, I appreciate that very much as well; I hope to be proven wrong about season 8. Last I'll say of the showrunners; adapting all the nuances and shifting alliances, the world building within ASOIAF was an enormous undertaking. But I believe in giving credit and criticism when they are due.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 10:28:47 GMT -5
The only one I probably disagree with you on overall was the Sansa/Arya plot to catch Littlefinger in a trap and how it was resolved offscreen. If they had made a scene where Bran informs the sisters of all Littlefinger's crimes right down to the catspaw assassin dagger, it would have given away the entire surprise. The show writers want to continue to try and catch the audience off guard and as the show fans get more savvy over the years, that becomes more challenging. I figured it out this was a "test" from Arya back when she threatened Sansa with the dagger and taking her face. That's when I realized something was up behind the scenes. It had to have been after that Bran intervened and while many of us would have liked to see/hear that, they chose to keep it under wraps so that the shock on Littlefinger's face was also shock for the audience. Based on the number of surprised/cheering reactions I saw from youtubers who do that sort of thing as a hobby, it definitely worked. I was annoyed by some of them who seemed to genuinely think Sansa was going to do something to Arya like exile her or something but then I had to stop and realize this was the show writers pulling a good twist scene and the general audience ate it up hook line and sinker. For what they were going for (plot twist), leaving off Bran's inside information and resolution between Arya/Sansa worked. I expect this has been said elsewhere, but they did make a scene similar to that, but ultimately cut it from the episode. uk.ign.com/articles/2017/08/29/game-of-thrones-isaac-hempstead-wright-on-deleted-scene-between-bran-and-sansa
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