Lils
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Post by Lils on Sept 7, 2017 15:56:31 GMT -5
Bear children. Men sire, women bear. Yes, I am a Grammar Nazi. Sorry.. You're right, but I'll bet Daenerys would take Lils side in this ... It's ridiculous how long it took me to find a gif of this.
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milyagaryen
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Post by milyagaryen on Sept 7, 2017 20:08:08 GMT -5
Has she ever had someone who openly remained true to her like this? Her personally, not as a queen? Daario seemed only interested in her role as the Dragon Queen. Drogo, I think he loved her but never enough to put her before everything else. Not that I disagree with you overall, but I do think Drogo was ready to put Daenerys first over everything else, that's why he pledged his entire Khalasar to her and was willing to cross the sea to "destroy them in their stone houses" because Daenerys had been threatened by assassins from Westeros. Unfortunately, Drogo died before his plan could even begin. Secondarily, I think Jorah has truly and honestly loved Daenerys as wholeheartedly as anyone possibly can, and not as a man who serves a queen but as a man who loves her as a woman, even though he watched her grow up and she has always seen him as more of a Father figure. Jorah most definitely wants romantic love. It's worth noting though that while Drogo pledged this partly for Dany, he was also heavily (I would suggest probably more) influenced by the fact that Daenerys was carrying his son at this time. This is in contrast with Jon, who accepts her even without the possibility she could have a child with him.
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milyagaryen
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Post by milyagaryen on Sept 7, 2017 20:31:32 GMT -5
I know there are some mixed feelings about reaction vids here, but I think a few of you like them. I find them weirdly compelling. Anyway, I found these girls' videos the other day, and they are really fun, and have the best reaction to boatsex I've seen. They're pretty much the external manifestation of what was going on in my head during the scene, haha.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Sept 8, 2017 5:42:32 GMT -5
It's worth noting though that while Drogo pledged this partly for Dany, he was also heavily (I would suggest probably more) influenced by the fact that Daenerys was carrying his son at this time. This is in contrast with Jon, who accepts her even without the possibility she could have a child with him. It's true that Drogo was motivated to conquer based on the "Stallion Who Mounts The World" prophecy for his son and the Dothraki in general value conquering and enslaving others over saving them which is what Daenerys wanted. Drogo gave her far more leniency in that respect than any other Dothraki Khal would have normally given their wife and I think that's because he genuinely loved her. Still, it's the cultural difference that makes their relationship less suitable and again, the ideals of how they saw life. Drogo's way of life and that of his people did not match what Daenerys wanted for her own people. She "freed" people, not captured them and had Drogo lived, I doubt he ever would have fully come around to the idea of being "peaceful" conquerors (if there's such a thing) in Westeros. It's amazing that Daenerys has gotten the Dothraki to behave in Westeros and I have to wonder if there's issues with that we don't know about because the show has glossed over it. The ironborn are the same way in that regards. The point being, Jon's ideals are aligned the same as Daenerys and he's gone against cultural differences (Night's Watch vs Wildlings) the same as Daenerys has had to do in Essos with the Dothraki and Slaver cities. This is one of the biggest parallels between their separate lives and will now be part of their combined life and ruling ethics. That's why their pairing is far more suited than either Drogo or Ygritte were because in both of those cases Daenerys and Jon were conforming to the ideals of another culture instead of making that culture their own which is what they're doing now.
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ladystoneboobs
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Sept 8, 2017 5:55:08 GMT -5
This is pretty much my ideal opening scene for Jon/Daenerys next season . I really want immediate proof that boatsex is not a one off thing! And they can talk about Dany meeting the Starks and Ghost. In my head canon it takes place in a tent the morning before they arrive at Winterfell. I sincerely hope that in the first episode of Season 8, there will either be a post-coital scene, a second sex scene, or at the very least a scene of Jon and Dany being sweet and romantic with one another before they arrive at Winterfell. Once Bran and Sam tell Jon about his true parentage and the information is relayed to Dany, things will inevitably become more complicated and angsty for an episode or two before the two start to come back together, possibly prompted by confirmation of Dany's inevitable pregnancy. And of course, if the Night King and his army hit Winterfell, any romance will need to take backseat to the necessity of fighting in the Great War (a close brush with death for either Jon or Dany could be another thing that prompts them to realize that their feelings for one another haven't changed). Let Jon, Dany, and all of us watching have at least one more scene to bask in their uncomplicated love for one another before conflict materializes, whatever form it takes. The road from White Harbor to Winterfell is a long one. They can spare a few minutes to enjoy the journey. they're gonna be loving it up on that ship all the way to white harbor and then all the way on the road to winterfell, which should be proof enough that jon will somehow come to terms with their kinship. it's not like they just kissed a couple times like luke/leia. you don't have two protagonists engage in full-on incest numerous times only for one to spend the rest of the series grossed out once he realizes it's incest, left in an honorable but sexless partnership while they're busy trying to save the world. that would just make things needlessly awkward at the absolute worst time.
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moiaf
Mother of Dragons
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Post by moiaf on Sept 8, 2017 9:00:15 GMT -5
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Lils
Moondancer
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Post by Lils on Sept 8, 2017 9:43:34 GMT -5
It's worth noting though that while Drogo pledged this partly for Dany, he was also heavily (I would suggest probably more) influenced by the fact that Daenerys was carrying his son at this time. This is in contrast with Jon, who accepts her even without the possibility she could have a child with him. It's true that Drogo was motivated to conquer based on the "Stallion Who Mounts The World" prophecy for his son and the Dothraki in general value conquering and enslaving others over saving them which is what Daenerys wanted. Drogo gave her far more leniency in that respect than any other Dothraki Khal would have normally given their wife and I think that's because he genuinely loved her. Still, it's the cultural difference that makes their relationship less suitable and again, the ideals of how they saw life. Drogo's way of life and that of his people did not match what Daenerys wanted for her own people. She "freed" people, not captured them and had Drogo lived, I doubt he ever would have fully come around to the idea of being "peaceful" conquerors (if there's such a thing) in Westeros. It's amazing that Daenerys has gotten the Dothraki to behave in Westeros and I have to wonder if there's issues with that we don't know about because the show has glossed over it. The ironborn are the same way in that regards. The point being, Jon's ideals are aligned the same as Daenerys and he's gone against cultural differences (Night's Watch vs Wildlings) the same as Daenerys has had to do in Essos with the Dothraki and Slaver cities. This is one of the biggest parallels between their separate lives and will now be part of their combined life and ruling ethics. That's why their pairing is far more suited than either Drogo or Ygritte were because in both of those cases Daenerys and Jon were conforming to the ideals of another culture instead of making that culture their own which is what they're doing now. That's an interesting point. Both Jon and Dany were forced to change aspects of themselves to fit in with these tribes and were pressed to change themselves. With each other, they can just be themselves, which is something I don't think they've been since the story started.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Sept 8, 2017 9:47:26 GMT -5
That's how I've suspected it would play out, but I like the analysis of that moment. It does remove any sinister connotations (not that I thought they were there to begin with).
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Sept 8, 2017 11:02:21 GMT -5
That's an interesting point. Both Jon and Dany were forced to change aspects of themselves to fit in with these tribes and were pressed to change themselves. With each other, they can just be themselves, which is something I don't think they've been since the story started. Yes, exactly! My original point was that both Drogo and Ygritte loved Daenerys and Jon wholeheartedly but that they came from a different cultural perspective on life and they were asking the person they loved to conform to that cultural ideal (Dothraki and Wildling) which didn't really work for either Daenerys or Jon in the bigger picture. Jon and Dany's ideals are strongly rooted in treating people fairly and all people being given the same rights to life and safety whether it's north of the wall, south of the wall or across the narrow sea. They represent "The New World" as Daenerys put it. Westeros is full of "The Old World" just as much as Essos and the journey is about change and acceptance of new ideals, which are represented by our two protagonists coming together and leading with those new ideals. That has always been my primary attraction to these two characters above and beyond their relationship as a couple. Together, they are a powerhouse that will not only defeat the 'bad guys' but change the way people think in their world to make it a better one.
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charliexcx
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Post by charliexcx on Sept 8, 2017 17:28:24 GMT -5
Kinda OT but I've been seeing some more than usual hate for Jon this season, even going back to last season because some think he is acting "out of character". I don't think so. Even in the dragon pit I think Jon stayed true to his character. He is displaying qualities what it takes to rule. Even Sansa said that he is a good ruler. Why are some glossing over that? I don't know why this fandom is so far up the North's butt so much anyway. I've also seen some criticism about Jon always having to be saved by others....especially by women. Just something that is bugging me. Not on this site but others and stuff I've seen on social media.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Sept 8, 2017 17:52:18 GMT -5
Kinda OT but I've been seeing some more than usual hate for Jon this season, even going back to last season because some think he is acting "out of character". I don't think so. Even in the dragon pit I think Jon stayed true to his character. He is displaying qualities what it takes to rule. Even Sansa said that he is a good ruler. Why are some glossing over that? I don't know why this fandom is so far up the North's butt so much anyway. I've also seen some criticism about Jon always having to be saved by others....especially by women. Just something that is bugging me. Not on this site but others and stuff I've seen on social media. He has changed. Jon has been to the other side and knows there is nothing but this life ahead. His idealism has taken a shift into focus, and he is the man Maester Aemon implored him to become. With a high certainty of death, he makes decisions whereas before we tended to see Emo Jon more often than Lord Snow. Plainly put, Jon has grown up and I guess some people prefer the angst-ridden, floppy-haired Jon who sulked to adult Jon. Personally, I think this new Jon is a lot sexier, but to each their own I guess.
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Envie
Vhagar
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Post by Envie on Sept 8, 2017 18:03:39 GMT -5
Kinda OT but I've been seeing some more than usual hate for Jon this season, even going back to last season because some think he is acting "out of character". I don't think so. Even in the dragon pit I think Jon stayed true to his character. He is displaying qualities what it takes to rule. Even Sansa said that he is a good ruler. Why are some glossing over that? I don't know why this fandom is so far up the North's butt so much anyway. I've also seen some criticism about Jon always having to be saved by others....especially by women. Just something that is bugging me. Not on this site but others and stuff I've seen on social media. He has changed. Jon has been to the other side and knows there is nothing but this life ahead. His idealism has taken a shift into focus, and he is the man Maester Aemon implored him to become. With a high certainty of death, he makes decisions whereas before we tended to see Emo Jon more often than Lord Snow. Plainly put, Jon has grown up and I guess some people prefer the angst-ridden, floppy-haired Jon who sulked to adult Jon. Personally, I think this new Jon is a lot sexier, but to each their own I guess. Jon's way better now than he was before. There was a short period of reluctance and existential crisis for him, but he shook that off fast and got busy doing what he needs to do. He's been focused on that ever since.
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jared
Rhaegal
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Post by jared on Sept 8, 2017 18:34:00 GMT -5
To paraphrase the users irisandre and Star_Trekker in the comments below that post: "Interesting. We must watch the scene again, this time for science!"
In all seriousness, I think this is an excellent analysis of both the scene itself and how Jon and Dany will eventually respond to the revelation. One can debate as to how much the writers and director planned out these exact beats, because short of a tell-all interview, there's no way to know. But once we have Season 8 to look back on, I think this interpretation will hold as consistent with everything to come later in Jon and Dany's relationship.
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jared
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Post by jared on Sept 8, 2017 18:45:05 GMT -5
That's how I've suspected it would play out, but I like the analysis of that moment. It does remove any sinister connotations (not that I thought they were there to begin with). Yeah, I'm pretty resolute in my belief that any supposed foreshadowing of conflict between Jon and Dany in Season 8 is this year's version of foreshadowing conflict between Jon and Sansa prior to Season 7. It's not that there's nothing there, but it was far less substantial and contentious than it was presaged to be - ultimately, the two were on the same page, and both the cast and the writers were just trying not to give the true story of the season away. I suppose that we need to brace ourselves that this foreboding topic is inevitably going to be a raised in all of the cast interviews leading up to Season 8, because it's an easy thing to talk about in thirty-second soundbites rather than explaining with detailed supporting evidence why Jon and Dany's relationship is strong enough to survive something like this. But that's just part of the promotional game, and we just need to accept it. As long as it doesn't carry over to the final product, all will be well.
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milyagaryen
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Post by milyagaryen on Sept 8, 2017 21:53:14 GMT -5
That's how I've suspected it would play out, but I like the analysis of that moment. It does remove any sinister connotations (not that I thought they were there to begin with). Yeah, I'm pretty resolute in my belief that any supposed foreshadowing of conflict between Jon and Dany in Season 8 is this year's version of foreshadowing conflict between Jon and Sansa prior to Season 7. It's not that there's nothing there, but it was far less substantial and contentious than it was presaged to be - ultimately, the two were on the same page, and both the cast and the writers were just trying not to give the true story of the season away. I suppose that we need to brace ourselves that this foreboding topic is inevitably going to be a raised in all of the cast interviews leading up to Season 8, because it's an easy thing to talk about in thirty-second soundbites rather than explaining with detailed supporting evidence why Jon and Dany's relationship is strong enough to survive something like this. But that's just part of the promotional game, and we just need to accept it. As long as it doesn't carry over to the final product, all will be well. Yeah, it's going to be annoying if the conflict it hyped, but I guess we just need to have faith in our interpretations of the story...we've all been right so far! I don't remember the interview, but I'm pretty certain Kit said that he doesn't normally see the full episodes before they premiere, but that he had seen E7 because he recorded some commentary for it, so I think we will definitely get a bit more discussion by him of the scene when the DVDs/blurays are released. It will be interesting to see if they stick to the "it's all a bit icky" line in that too... OMG re. Jon, Envie, Lady Sansa's Direwolf, I totally agree, he is 10000% sexier since his resurrection. I've thought for a while that this whole fandom-obsession with Northern independence is completely overblown, and not really supported by the story either, and this idea that Jon of all people would care about it at the expense of the rest of the world is completely wrong.
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