Greenseers in Valyria

Thanks for the links but the Oily Blackstones have not been introduced in the show and I generally view them as the typical Martin homage to Robert Howard who wrote the Black Stone, complete with giant frog and blood sacrifice.

Valyrians are not first men, but all of man stems from Essos. So you can say they are all members of the human race.

To many things wrong with the Valyrian video. though it's a good video that has some nice parallels it sort of avoids the obvious. The first men are not a race, the first men is a name given to those men believed to have come here first. It could of been many different races and probably was. The video tries to use the grey areas of Martin's timeline as explinations adjusting the lines as they see fit.

Valyrians are most likely related to those of YiTi which if you follow Danys dreams seems rather obvious. Though many people may decend from YiTi. Martin is not going to go into DNA testing to find what percentage of Valyrian blood the people of Westeros have or have not.

Going with the lore.

The First man was said to come from the womb of the world, in Vaes Dothrak. That does not mean he is Dothraki but rather the first tribes of man may come from there. It is one of the earliest mentions of first men. Which means the first men maybe related to the Dothraki. The Dothraki who we meet as slavers may have been formed from slaves. Just as the Valyrians were freed slaves who became slavers. Slavery was still practiced in Westeros until Aegon abolished it. The first men, the Free Folk also hold strong beliefs against slavery. Possibly having been former slaves.

The Children are never said to be isolated to Westeros, in fact there are hints about the Squirrle people in Essos. We just meet them in Westeros and they claim to predate man. The shade trees of Essos are almost identical to the heart trees of Westeros.

History doesn't repeat but it often rhymes. It appears there may have been more than one long night, as in the past many forces may have united to fight the long night. As we see to day, we have Dany and her Free men, the freed slaves who are of various cultures, the Dothraki, the Wildlings, the Men of the north, Andal blood and first men blood, even someone from Asshai. Maybe the GC as well.

The first men caught the long night but who else fought? Perhaps some people from the magical land of Asshai where dragons are said to still live. Perhaps people from YiTi as well, and perhaps the ancestors of the Dothraki. Why do the Dothraki hate the sea? Why in their legend do the battle an ancient pale race? Land bridge would of been easy for them until the hammer of the waters smashed it and how many Dothraki possibly died and poof a legend is born about the evil water.

First men were primative unlike those of YiTi, Valyria, and Asshai. A Bronze Age people. Perhaps Valyrians learned to harness dragons and Valyrian steel from Asshai. Lots of fire magic in Asshai. The waking of the dragons is not all that different from forging a sword if Martin's hints are correct, it takes a soul much like the forging of Lightbringer, wouldn't be tough to make it burn if you have a red priest as well.

Azor and Nissa, Dany and Drogo have almost identical parallels to the forging of a great weapon.

Danys dreams indicate her ancestors are from YiTi which may have been devistated by the long night and thus it's fall from power and the enslavment of its people. Perhaps by the Dothraki and the slaver cities. They later rebelled and formed Valyria, that's when Valyrians actually became a people. Who knows how many different races made up the original blood of Valyria? It would be impossible to know without DNA testing, same for the first men, and all the other races. They are humans.

I don't look Japanese I have no Japanese blood but we still come from the same source. We are human. The Daynes look Valyrian, yet Martin says they have no Valyrian blood and are not related.

This is the problem when you try and claim someone is all this or all that. The First men were people from Essos just like everyone else because Essos is where life began for the human race. They may have blood from YiTi and Dothraki, and Ghis and many many other places.

Asshai was more than likely the Kingdom of the Bloodstone Emperor. Which he tainted and ruined with Magic.

I agree the Old gods are universal from Planetos and not just Westeros.

A side not Serwyn was from the Dawns age. Never a member of the KG, it was simple bardic lore. I know this for a fact as I was the one who found the actual 14 year old quote that Ran lost about his discussion with Martin on the topic, and it was added to the wiki in 2016.

What Ran would not discuss is weather or not Serwyn was like Cold hands, same for Star Eyes. A Knight once tried to kill a dragon using the Serwyn technique, it ended poorly for him. However it is my belief Serwyn wore the armor of the Others. That armor reflects all around it kind of like the predators armor from the movie Predator. He killed it with his spear. Much as we saw the NK kill Viserion with a spear and I suspect a dragon in the books dies like this at the hands of the NK. Ice vs. fire. Perhaps the Hightowers chased the Dragons from battle island using ice magic learned from the Children.

Anyway the First men are Valyrians is more than likely sort of true, in that the ancient race probably shared some of the same blood or ancestors as they are ancient people from Essos and people tend to have sex. Though were are not Valyrians per say as Valyrians are simply named for a place, and they were not Valyrians before that. They clearly have blood from YiTi and who knows where else they were slaves after all. As for there apperance, who knows they excelled at magic anything is possible.






You are absolutely correct the First Men were a grab bag of people. Probably fleeing the Bloodstone Emperor.  I think the people that eventually became those who were called Valyrians spent time in Westeros before moving back the Essos and founding Valyria.  I might be getting a bit nick picky but I make sure distinguish The Empire of the Dawn and Yiti.  It is true that Yiti is a geographical area that was once included in the Empire but the Empire predates Yiti and was much more vast than Yiti is currently.  I think the Empire included The Plains of the Jogos Nhai, the shadow lands(Asshai being the ancient capital of the Empire), Leng and the rest of Jade Sea Islands, Yiti, etc.  Also, I think Yeen was at least an outpost of the Empire, I think the Seastone chair has is origins with the Empire. Most importantly Asshai I think was once a wonderful city.  The greatest city in the world until the Bloodstone Emperor came to power and corrupted it. (I will point out that the video I linked early that describes the the oily stone in Asshai and it origins is good and worth a listening)

But I think the people that founded Valyria are descendants the of the ruling class of the Empire. To be more specific descendants of the Amethyst Empress.  Amethyst in our world is purple.  Which means the Amethyst Empress had purple eyes.  So obviously the Valyrians are her descendants.  So after helping defeat the WW invasion these descendants moved on to what became to be known as Valyria.  So they were among the grab of people that were labeled First Men but were only a piece of the population.  This is all included in the Dany being the Amethyst Empress Reborn theory on the internet. 

I think that the time Valyrians spent in Westeros is a very important piece of the puzzle.  During the Empire there certainly were dragons and the emperors did have some control over them using sorcery and creating dragon horns and such.  But, the knowledge the Valyrians gained from TCOF (Warging) enabled the Valyrians to use their knowledge of magic they brought from Essos and combined it with the magic of TCOF and became true Dragonlords and thus the dragon horns were no longer needed.  Using blood magic was far better and linked these humans to the dragons in a way that not even the old Emperors of the Dawn to could achieve. 

Also, this probably is obvious but making a Valyrian Steel sword requires human sacrifice to achieve.  And I believe that Azor Ahai's sacrifice of Nissa Nissa was the first time such ritual was successful.  So Lightbringer is the first ever Valyrian Steel Sword ever made. This knowledge is what the Valyrians took with them to Essos and did it on an industrial level in Valyria.   

The creation of Storm's End is probably a proto-Valyrian structure.  It was built using Fire Magic but without Dragons.  Bran the Builder probably had knowledge of Fire Magic assuming he too has his origins in The Empire(Bran the Builder probably wasn't born in Essos but it is his heritage).  His techniques were not only used when building Varyria but taken to another level because they used not just Fire Magic but the Dragon Fire, which is more powerful.  

As far as the multiple longs nights.  I do believe the WWs were used more than once.  The first time was when the First Men were at war with the TCOF.  Once the pact was made TCOF called off the attack dogs and the WWs went far North.  The second time the WWs were used may be when the Andals came.  However this time the WWs grew out of control and TCOF. I know this messes with the assumed Westeros historical timeline but the timeline that is being preached is not correct in my opinion and the truth of what happened will come out in time. 



That's all I got.  I got to get back to work.  

Zzz guys srsly can you move this to another thread?