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Post by moiaf on Jun 29, 2016 17:11:45 GMT -5
Regarding Jon's name, I'm not sure if it's that important, his first name I mean. Whatever his mother named him, he won't change it, he will always be Jon. Additionally, I can't really see Jon taking p the Targaryen name. He doesn't know the Targaryens, all he knows about them he learned from books and other people. He's a Stark, that's the family he was raise with, the family he knows and loves, I can't see him choosing to change his name. He can use his Targaryen heritage to gain favors and allies, but other than that, I don't think we'll ever see a Jon Targaryen or another Aemon Targaryen. In fact, I think he will chose to stay a Snow.
That's my two cents about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2016 20:53:17 GMT -5
I am mostly deaf in one ear so I do read lips and I am almost 100% sure she says Aemon. I was surprised to find out there was a debate going on about it since I assumed everyone else could tell, haha I am so silly to forget others don't "hear" the same way I do (combination of voice and lip reading). I could be as wrong as many others guessing Aemon though, especially if they purposely had the actress say it differently to throw off the careful watchers. *edit: They also very deliberately cut off the closed captioning in that part so it's very obvious they are trying to obscure his name reveal until later. Haha, I'm also half deaf in one ear so I read lips too and I'm also sure she says Aemon.
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Post by iheartseverus on Jun 29, 2016 22:43:51 GMT -5
Regarding Jon's name, I'm not sure if it's that important, his first name I mean. Whatever his mother named him, he won't change it, he will always be Jon. Additionally, I can't really see Jon taking p the Targaryen name. He doesn't know the Targaryens, all he knows about them he learned from books and other people. He's a Stark, that's the family he was raise with, the family he knows and loves, I can't see him choosing to change his name. He can use his Targaryen heritage to gain favors and allies, but other than that, I don't think we'll ever see a Jon Targaryen or another Aemon Targaryen. In fact, I think he will chose to stay a Snow. That's my two cents about that. I totally agree that Jon will be Jon, no matter what his mother named him. But I think the name might be important, not to Jon, but to the story. Rhaegar had a kind of mystical version in his mind of exactly how everything must play out, including 'there must be a third.' It seems to follow that 'there must be a third, and his name will be...' Having said that, we do know that GRRM likes likes to bend and subvert prophecies! So, the actual name Lyanna whispers to Ned isn't an answer to anything, but it is a clue, IMO. 2 cents.
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Post by Envie on Jun 30, 2016 7:05:07 GMT -5
Regarding Jon's name, I'm not sure if it's that important, his first name I mean. Whatever his mother named him, he won't change it, he will always be Jon. Additionally, I can't really see Jon taking p the Targaryen name. He doesn't know the Targaryens, all he knows about them he learned from books and other people. He's a Stark, that's the family he was raise with, the family he knows and loves, I can't see him choosing to change his name. He can use his Targaryen heritage to gain favors and allies, but other than that, I don't think we'll ever see a Jon Targaryen or another Aemon Targaryen. In fact, I think he will chose to stay a Snow. That's my two cents about that. I do agree Jon will probably just stay Jon Snow. His personality doesn't really lend itself to suddenly embracing a family name or heritage he never knew especially since his resurrection and the emotional crisis he's been through with that. Maybe they cut it off a bit in the scene to just leave it open ended for fans to figure out (and obsess over) because as iheartseverus said, it may hold some importance to later pieces of the puzzle if they're going for a symbolic prophecy as Rhaegar believed in.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 9:47:22 GMT -5
Regarding Jon's name, I'm not sure if it's that important, his first name I mean. Whatever his mother named him, he won't change it, he will always be Jon. Additionally, I can't really see Jon taking p the Targaryen name. He doesn't know the Targaryens, all he knows about them he learned from books and other people. He's a Stark, that's the family he was raise with, the family he knows and loves, I can't see him choosing to change his name. He can use his Targaryen heritage to gain favors and allies, but other than that, I don't think we'll ever see a Jon Targaryen or another Aemon Targaryen. In fact, I think he will chose to stay a Snow. That's my two cents about that. I do agree Jon will probably just stay Jon Snow. His personality doesn't really lend itself to suddenly embracing a family name or heritage he never knew especially since his resurrection and the emotional crisis he's been through with that. Maybe they cut it off a bit in the scene to just leave it open ended for fans to figure out (and obsess over) because as iheartseverus said, it may hold some importance to later pieces of the puzzle if they're going for a symbolic prophecy as Rhaegar believed in. I wonder sometimes about what Rhaegar actually did. When people usually try to make a prophecy happen it doesn't come about the way they thought it would. Of course Rhaegar's effort led to the fall of House Targaryen and the death of his two first born children but I do wonder if there is something that we are missing. I don't know why, I guess something doesn't feel quite right that Rhaegar tried to "create" a child of ice and fire and voila! There is Jon. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, it wouldn't be the first time.
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 13:23:32 GMT -5
I do agree Jon will probably just stay Jon Snow. His personality doesn't really lend itself to suddenly embracing a family name or heritage he never knew especially since his resurrection and the emotional crisis he's been through with that. Maybe they cut it off a bit in the scene to just leave it open ended for fans to figure out (and obsess over) because as iheartseverus said, it may hold some importance to later pieces of the puzzle if they're going for a symbolic prophecy as Rhaegar believed in. I wonder sometimes about what Rhaegar actually did. When people usually try to make a prophecy happen it doesn't come about the way they thought it will. Of course Rhaegar's effort led to the fall of House Targaryen and the death of his two first born children but I do wonder if there is something that we are missing. I don't know why, I guess something doesn't feel quite right that Rhaegar tried to "create" a child of ice and fire and voila! There is Jon. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm with you on this. Something doesn't add up and I've never worked out what it is. If it did there would be more consensus over what we know right now. Heck, even after the infographic people are still in denial over R+L=J. I'm not so sure it was the first name that was important. I think it was the surname that was important. If Rhaegar and Lyanna were married then it throws a whole different perspective on Dany's claim to the Iron Throne as Jon would be ahead of her in normal succession rights. She believes that she is the rightful Queen, if she is not how does that impact her story?
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 13:35:53 GMT -5
I wonder sometimes about what Rhaegar actually did. When people usually try to make a prophecy happen it doesn't come about the way they thought it will. Of course Rhaegar's effort led to the fall of House Targaryen and the death of his two first born children but I do wonder if there is something that we are missing. I don't know why, I guess something doesn't feel quite right that Rhaegar tried to "create" a child of ice and fire and voila! There is Jon. Maybe I'm just overthinking it, it wouldn't be the first time. I'm with you on this. Something doesn't add up and I've never worked out what it is. If it did there would be more consensus over what we know right now. Heck, even after the infographic people are still in denial over R+L=J. I'm not so sure it was the first name that was important. I think it was the surname that was important. If Rhaegar and Lyanna were married then it throws a whole different perspective on Dany's claim to the Iron Throne as Jon would be ahead of her in normal succession rights. She believes that she is the rightful Queen, if she is not how does that impact her story? So, after TWoIaF was publish we learned that King Aerys skipped over Rhaegar's son and names his own son Visery's Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne. If true and Rhagar's line was dismissed from the line of succession than Dany would go before Jon. However, in the book section I posted a good breakdown of the succession laws and costumes of Westeros. In the end it sort of doesn't matter who would be first because Dany in order to become queen has to reconquer Westeros and therefore the line of succession starts with her. She took it back, it's hers. If it happens that way of course. In all honesty I think GRRM made this very murky on purpose.
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 15:37:21 GMT -5
I'm with you on this. Something doesn't add up and I've never worked out what it is. If it did there would be more consensus over what we know right now. Heck, even after the infographic people are still in denial over R+L=J. I'm not so sure it was the first name that was important. I think it was the surname that was important. If Rhaegar and Lyanna were married then it throws a whole different perspective on Dany's claim to the Iron Throne as Jon would be ahead of her in normal succession rights. She believes that she is the rightful Queen, if she is not how does that impact her story? So, after TWoIaF was publish we learned that King Aerys skipped over Rhaegar's son and names his own son Visery's Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne. If true and Rhagar's line was dismissed from the line of succession than Dany would go before Jon. However, in the book section I posted a good breakdown of the succession laws and costumes of Westeros. In the end it sort of doesn't matter who would be first because Dany in order to become queen has to reconquer Westeros and therefore the line of succession starts with her. She took it back, it's hers. If it happens that way of course. In all honesty I think GRRM made this very murky on purpose. George didn't write the world book though. He contributed but didn't write it. There could be are a number of reasons that Aerys named Viserys heir and it being nothing to do with disinheriting Rhaegar. Why were no Kingsguard sent with Viserys? Something is fishy there. Not sure the show will delve into it that far. What comes from the world book may never be of too much consequence in the show. Who knows.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 15:43:09 GMT -5
So, after TWoIaF was publish we learned that King Aerys skipped over Rhaegar's son and names his own son Visery's Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the throne. If true and Rhagar's line was dismissed from the line of succession than Dany would go before Jon. However, in the book section I posted a good breakdown of the succession laws and costumes of Westeros. In the end it sort of doesn't matter who would be first because Dany in order to become queen has to reconquer Westeros and therefore the line of succession starts with her. She took it back, it's hers. If it happens that way of course. In all honesty I think GRRM made this very murky on purpose. George didn't write the world book though. He contributed but didn't write it. There could be are a number of reasons that Aerys named Viserys heir and it being nothing to do with disinheriting Rhaegar. Why were no Kingsguard sent with Viserys? Something is fishy there. Not sure the show will delve into it that far. What comes from the world book may never be of too much consequence in the show. Who knows. He actually wrote most of it, I believe. And Elio who wrote it with him confirmed that it is canon. Of course we don't know the circumstances sorounding the events so I'm sure there is a lot more to it. Nonetheless, Dany is reconquering Westeros, even if she is doing it under her families name.
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Post by mattpeto on Jun 30, 2016 16:05:34 GMT -5
This might be the wrong place for it, but I didn't think seeing Rhaegar would happen in Season 7. But after the way they left the episode, I truly believe we might see his storyline unfold a little bit via Bran in Season 7.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 16:08:13 GMT -5
This might be the wrong place for it, but I didn't think seeing Rhaegar would happen in Season 7. But after the way they left the episode, I truly believe we might see his storyline unfold a little bit via Bran in Season 7. I agree, I hope they address the ambiguity surrounding Lyanna's "abduction" I'm praying for a tourney at Harrenhal
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 16:21:50 GMT -5
George didn't write the world book though. He contributed but didn't write it. There could be are a number of reasons that Aerys named Viserys heir and it being nothing to do with disinheriting Rhaegar. Why were no Kingsguard sent with Viserys? Something is fishy there. Not sure the show will delve into it that far. What comes from the world book may never be of too much consequence in the show. Who knows. He actually wrote most of it, I believe. And Elio who wrote it with him confirmed that it is canon. Of course we don't know the circumstances sorounding the events so I'm sure there is a lot more to it. Nonetheless, Dany is reconquering Westeros, even if she is doing it under her families name. It does throw a spanner in the works for her though. Her reconquering belief is because she believes she would be next in line to the Iron Throne under Targaryan succession. She is reconquering for her own selfish purposes and not because the Westeros needed her to (although it could be argued that the situation changed in episode 10). All my point is that Jon's existence throws a spanner in the works for Dany. Regardless of whether he is legitimate or not as episode 10 showed being next in line doesn't make that much difference in the show universe society (they've glossed over a few things related to inheritance). So I'm wondering if what we've seen in episodes 9 and 10 is a mini version of the possibility of what could happen with Dany. Sansa had the forces as saved the day, was the next legitimate heir (I think they are assuming Bran died beyond the wall) and was totally overlooked for the person who messed it all up, isn't legitimate and bottom of the pecking order in regards to inheritance all because he's a man. Jon is Dany's biggest obstacle to the Iron Throne. If Jon will allow himself to be crowned King in the North over Sansa and not say that it is hers by rights, then he will allow the same with the Iron Throne and he won't defer to Dany either. That is possibly why they didn't include Robb's will, to show that Jon will take the power over others even if he has a lesser claim.
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 16:24:51 GMT -5
This might be the wrong place for it, but I didn't think seeing Rhaegar would happen in Season 7. But after the way they left the episode, I truly believe we might see his storyline unfold a little bit via Bran in Season 7. I agree, I hope they address the ambiguity surrounding Lyanna's "abduction" I'm praying for a tourney at Harrenhal This. Please let it happen.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 16:40:45 GMT -5
He actually wrote most of it, I believe. And Elio who wrote it with him confirmed that it is canon. Of course we don't know the circumstances sorounding the events so I'm sure there is a lot more to it. Nonetheless, Dany is reconquering Westeros, even if she is doing it under her families name. It does throw a spanner in the works for her though. Her reconquering belief is because she believes she would be next in line to the Iron Throne under Targaryan succession. She is reconquering for her own selfish purposes and not because the Westeros needed her to (although it could be argued that the situation changed in episode 10). All my point is that Jon's existence throws a spanner in the works for Dany. Regardless of whether he is legitimate or not as episode 10 showed being next in line doesn't make that much difference in the show universe society (they've glossed over a few things related to inheritance). So I'm wondering if what we've seen in episodes 9 and 10 is a mini version of the possibility of what could happen with Dany. Sansa had the forces as saved the day, was the next legitimate heir (I think they are assuming Bran died beyond the wall) and was totally overlooked for the person who messed it all up, isn't legitimate and bottom of the pecking order in regards to inheritance all because he's a man. Jon is Dany's biggest obstacle to the Iron Throne. If Jon will allow himself to be crowned King in the North over Sansa and not say that it is hers by rights, then he will allow the same with the Iron Throne and he won't defer to Dany either. That is possibly why they didn't include Robb's will, to show that Jon will take the power over others even if he has a lesser claim. Yeah, but Dany isn't Sansa and Dany has dragons. I think it will go very differently. Sansa is still trying to play the game as a lady, Dany has never played that game. She's the female version of Aegon. Regardless, Dany is doing this as the last scion of House Targaryen , she doesn't know about Jon. Jon was able to take the crown from Sansa because he was a known bastard of Eddard Stark, raised in Winterfell. Jon has no relationship to the Targaryens, and at the moment no way to prove it. Also, the people who support Dany, wouldn't just automatically switch to Jon. These are three women from major houses who are tired of being oppressed by men. I think this is an important factor of what's happening. And of course Dany's armies will follow no one but her. Like I said earlier GRRM made all this very muddy because there isn't a clear heir, whoever takes the crown will have to do it by force. Besides I believe that Dany and Jon will unite through marriage , voiding most of this.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jun 30, 2016 16:43:34 GMT -5
This might be the wrong place for it, but I didn't think seeing Rhaegar would happen in Season 7. But after the way they left the episode, I truly believe we might see his storyline unfold a little bit via Bran in Season 7. I agree, I hope they address the ambiguity surrounding Lyanna's "abduction" I'm praying for a tourney at Harrenhal OO, I'd like that just to see young Robert and Uncle Brandon.
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