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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 16:54:57 GMT -5
I agree, I hope they address the ambiguity surrounding Lyanna's "abduction" I'm praying for a tourney at Harrenhal OO, I'd like that just to see young Robert and Uncle Brandon. Basically I'd want everyone in this picture IF they did the Tourney (and it's a big IF) then they'd have to at least have Rhaegar, Elia, Ned and Lyanna at a minimum. They've got the last two and Aerys already cast so it's not a particularly big ask. Robert and Brandon would really just be fan service. But this probably should go in the S7 speculation thread
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 19:03:18 GMT -5
It does throw a spanner in the works for her though. Her reconquering belief is because she believes she would be next in line to the Iron Throne under Targaryan succession. She is reconquering for her own selfish purposes and not because the Westeros needed her to (although it could be argued that the situation changed in episode 10). All my point is that Jon's existence throws a spanner in the works for Dany. Regardless of whether he is legitimate or not as episode 10 showed being next in line doesn't make that much difference in the show universe society (they've glossed over a few things related to inheritance). So I'm wondering if what we've seen in episodes 9 and 10 is a mini version of the possibility of what could happen with Dany. Sansa had the forces as saved the day, was the next legitimate heir (I think they are assuming Bran died beyond the wall) and was totally overlooked for the person who messed it all up, isn't legitimate and bottom of the pecking order in regards to inheritance all because he's a man. Jon is Dany's biggest obstacle to the Iron Throne. If Jon will allow himself to be crowned King in the North over Sansa and not say that it is hers by rights, then he will allow the same with the Iron Throne and he won't defer to Dany either. That is possibly why they didn't include Robb's will, to show that Jon will take the power over others even if he has a lesser claim. Yeah, but Dany isn't Sansa and Dany has dragons. I think it will go very differently. Sansa is still trying to play the game as a lady, Dany has never played that game. She's the female version of Aegon. Regardless, Dany is doing this as the last scion of House Targaryen , she doesn't know about Jon. Jon was able to take the crown from Sansa because he was a known bastard of Eddard Stark, raised in Winterfell. Jon has no relationship to the Targaryens, and at the moment no way to prove it. Also, the people who support Dany, wouldn't just automatically switch to Jon. These are three women from major houses who are tired of being oppressed by men. I think this is an important factor of what's happening. And of course Dany's armies will follow no one but her. Like I said earlier GRRM made all this very muddy because there isn't a clear heir, whoever takes the crown will have to do it by force. Besides I believe that Dany and Jon will unite through marriage , voiding most of this. Dany has pretty much all bases covered. Except probably winter itself (can't see the Dothraki doing well during winter). I'm not saying Dany isn't the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Regardless of right by birth or conquest. That isn't what I'm getting at. We know who his parents are. HBO have made that blatantly clear. The consensus amongst lipreaders seems to be his first name is possibly Jaehaerys. His first name not being Jon means nothing. If he bonds with one of the dragons, I doubt it will be bothered whether he is called Jon or Jaehaerys Snow. It also doesn't affect a marriage union to Dany as he has been crowned King in the North (unless that title is removed from him because he is Lyanna's son and not Ned's and also because of Bran). To me, the biggest significance of the show holding back on his name is because his surname is significant. That means it has to be Targaryan. That has to be significant and I think it will be his claim to the Iron Throne. I am probably wrong, but my feelings are that both Jon and Dany will unite and survive the war of the dawn. It will be afterwards that the problem lies and people will declare Jon the King and it will lead to a dance with dragons leading to one of them dying. To me that would be a bittersweet ending. I'm not saying I'm right, but it is the saddest ending I can envision. Admittedly, I'm not a writer and George is far more clever than me and has a far better imagination than me so I'm probably way off. However it would make for awesome tv.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 19:20:25 GMT -5
Yeah, but Dany isn't Sansa and Dany has dragons. I think it will go very differently. Sansa is still trying to play the game as a lady, Dany has never played that game. She's the female version of Aegon. Regardless, Dany is doing this as the last scion of House Targaryen , she doesn't know about Jon. Jon was able to take the crown from Sansa because he was a known bastard of Eddard Stark, raised in Winterfell. Jon has no relationship to the Targaryens, and at the moment no way to prove it. Also, the people who support Dany, wouldn't just automatically switch to Jon. These are three women from major houses who are tired of being oppressed by men. I think this is an important factor of what's happening. And of course Dany's armies will follow no one but her. Like I said earlier GRRM made all this very muddy because there isn't a clear heir, whoever takes the crown will have to do it by force. Besides I believe that Dany and Jon will unite through marriage , voiding most of this. Dany has pretty much all bases covered. Except probably winter itself (can't see the Dothraki doing well during winter). I'm not saying Dany isn't the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Regardless of right by birth or conquest. That isn't what I'm getting at. We know who his parents are. HBO have made that blatantly clear. The consensus amongst lipreaders seems to be his first name is possibly Jaehaerys. His first name not being Jon means nothing. If he bonds with one of the dragons, I doubt it will be bothered whether he is called Jon or Jaehaerys Snow. It also doesn't affect a marriage union to Dany as he has been crowned King in the North (unless that title is removed from him because he is Lyanna's son and not Ned's and also because of Bran). To me, the biggest significance of the show holding back on his name is because his surname is significant. That means it has to be Targaryan. That has to be significant and I think it will be his claim to the Iron Throne. I am probably wrong, but my feelings are that both Jon and Dany will unite and survive the war of the dawn. It will be afterwards that the problem lies and people will declare Jon the King and it will lead to a dance with dragons leading to one of them dying. To me that would be a bittersweet ending. I'm not saying I'm right, but it is the saddest ending I can envision. Admittedly, I'm not a writer and George is far more clever than me and has a far better imagination than me so I'm probably way off. However it would make for awesome tv. I can't see a second Dance after the war for Daen. I think the series ends with how the survives deals with the aftermath of what's happened. If there is to be a dance it'll happen before the war for Down and the marriage might be the way to settle it. Knowing that the dead are coming they will not want to lose more soldiers unnecessarily. It the books it looks like the Danxe will be between Dany and FAegon.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 19:30:43 GMT -5
mandzipop I forgot to mention that I believe that all the dragons will be dead by the end of the war.
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Post by Nezzer on Jun 30, 2016 19:51:46 GMT -5
mandzipop I forgot to mention that I believe that all the dragons will be dead by the end of the war. I think it will be more interesting if the dragons all die before the war, or at least if just Drogon is left alive. The way things look right now it seems she'll just crush the WW with her huge army and her three dragons. I doubt the WW and the Night King are resistant to dragonfire.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 19:53:03 GMT -5
mandzipop I forgot to mention that I believe that all the dragons will be dead by the end of the war. I think it will be more interesting if the dragons all die before the war, or at least if just Drogon is left alive. The way things look right now it seems she'll just crush the WW with her huge army and her three dragons. I doubt the WW and the Night King are resistant to dragonfire. Yeah I think that if Euron is going to be any kind of significant opponent he has to kill at least one dragon
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 19:55:41 GMT -5
mandzipop I forgot to mention that I believe that all the dragons will be dead by the end of the war. I think it will be more interesting if the dragons all die before the war, or at least if just Drogon is left alive. The way things look right now it seems she'll just crush the WW with her huge army and her three dragons. I doubt the WW and the Night King are resistant to dragonfire. I actually think this is very likely. I believe that Euron might cause the death of at least one of the dragons if not both of the little one. In thinking about this Dany night be force to kill them if the Dragonbinder drives the two little dragons crazy. Which will be both heartbreaking and really make it precarious for the warriors of the living to fight the Others.
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 20:17:26 GMT -5
mandzipop I forgot to mention that I believe that all the dragons will be dead by the end of the war. I hope not, but I think you could be right. They could destroy each other. We don't even know if they can survive winter. He doesn't look like a Jaehaerys. I hope it isn't Jaehaerys. It doesn't suit him.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 30, 2016 20:20:15 GMT -5
mandzipop I forgot to mention that I believe that all the dragons will be dead by the end of the war. I hope not, but I think you could be right. They could destroy each other. We don't even know if they can survive winter. He doesn't look like a Jaehaerys. I hope it isn't Jaehaerys. It doesn't suit him. Aemon would suit him better. It makes me sad because I've always loved dragons. But Western tradition demonizes them. I like the Eastern tradition better, which views them as lucky. Oh well.
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Post by mattpeto on Jun 30, 2016 21:05:51 GMT -5
Jon in ASOS would pretend to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight when sparring with Robb. mandzipop - Unless it's a revelation we get at the very end, I doubt Jon's Targeryan name is the major surprise.
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Post by mandzipop on Jun 30, 2016 21:25:22 GMT -5
Jon in ASOS would pretend to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight when sparring with Robb. mandzipop - Unless it's a revelation we get at the very end, I doubt Jon's Targeryan name is the major surprise. But what would be the point of whispering it inaudibly only to tell us who his father is a couple of days later because not everyone worked it out? The important question is whether he is a Targaryan or a Snow. That could have significant implications on the plot going forward. That is the only reason I can think that they kept it quiet. His first name wouldn't have been a biggie because they dropped Jaehaerys II as Aerys father from the show. They made Aegon V Aerys father. If it had been audible the name Jaehaerys wouldn't have told the average show only viewer that Jon is Rhaegars son. I was always on board with Aemon being his name as it made sense and there were hints in the books as you point out. I'm just hoping for a Tourney of Harrenhal flashback next year.
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Post by Envie on Jun 30, 2016 21:40:15 GMT -5
I'm disappointed some random dude's post on reddit is now the go-to factual evidence for pop media outlets like Mashable to be claiming Lyanna said Jaehaerys. wtf. I have nothing against that name, he was a cool Targ, but that's just not what she said. You don't have to be a lip-reader to know that your lips do not come together at any point in saying those three syllables 'Jae-hae-rys' ... and you cannot possibly pronounce the name Aemon or any other name with an M in it without putting your lips together. She very clearly puts her lips together when the sound (and captions) cut out.
I know in the end it really doesn't even matter, he's Jon. But it annoys the shit out of me that news articles start circulating crap that's upvoted on reddit which is absurd. I have been on reddit for nearly 5 years and I know exactly how to get a post to the top of the front page, that doesn't make me an expert at whatever I posted to get it there. *grumble*
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Post by mattpeto on Jun 30, 2016 21:44:04 GMT -5
Jon in ASOS would pretend to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight when sparring with Robb. mandzipop - Unless it's a revelation we get at the very end, I doubt Jon's Targeryan name is the major surprise. But what would be the point of whispering it inaudibly only to tell us who his father is a couple of days later because not everyone worked it out? The important question is whether he is a Targaryan or a Snow. That could have significant implications on the plot going forward. That is the only reason I can think that they kept it quiet. His first name wouldn't have been a biggie because they dropped Jaehaerys II as Aerys father from the show. They made Aegon V Aerys father. If it had been audible the name Jaehaerys wouldn't have told the average show only viewer that Jon is Rhaegars son. I was always on board with Aemon being his name as it made sense and there were hints in the books as you point out. I'm just hoping for a Tourney of Harrenhal flashback next year. Or a prequel series (which I was originally against) not called Robert's Rebellion but simply Rhaegar.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 1:24:03 GMT -5
I hope not, but I think you could be right. They could destroy each other. We don't even know if they can survive winter. He doesn't look like a Jaehaerys. I hope it isn't Jaehaerys. It doesn't suit him. Aemon would suit him better. It makes me sad because I've always loved dragons. But Western tradition demonizes them. I like the Eastern tradition better, which views them as lucky. Oh well. Dragons are also viewed as guardians/protectors in some eastern cultures.
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Post by Balerion's Whiskers on Jul 14, 2016 16:04:10 GMT -5
It wasn't just a random bunch of words that Aisling Franciosi whispered into young Ned's ear, but she isn't giving anything away.
She says she does not know if she will be returning in Season 7 at this point though.
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