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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 6:11:44 GMT -5
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Mar 6, 2019 8:53:16 GMT -5
They think Jaime stole a Greyjoy ship Oh gods, I've now seen this one in a couple of media sites too, so it's not just whacko rabid fans - even the media seems to have no clue that's not Jaime. I still think, despite that gate being proven to be Winter's Town and not the Crypts' exit, that the survivor's will escape through the Crypts. I do too. It's a good callback to when Osha, Hodor, Bran and Rickon escaped through the crypts. Winterfell is a huge place and was built with many hidden corridors down there so I really do see this being the way they escape, especially since we've seen the women and children (and Varys haha) hiding down there. I think Sapochnik even referenced Helm's Deep in an EW interview, right? That tells me he wants to build up the suspense and fear of being in the crypts while a battle rages above. We're in for some suspenseful moments seeing how this all plays out and people survive the battle of Winterfell.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 6, 2019 9:13:56 GMT -5
Anyone care to speculate what's going through Dany's mind in this shot? I saw in a version f the scene where you can see the silhouette of someone behind Dany and it looks like it could be Tyrion. We were speculating that perhaps he's given her the bad news that Jaime has showed up without an army. I still think, despite that gate being proven to be Winter's Town and not the Crypts' exit, that the survivor's will escape through the Crypts. I believe this as well, especially, as we saw the shot of the people huddled up in the crypts. It's easier to have the people escape from there than try and fund a way through the castle or whatever. They haven't discuss this in the show but the crypts are huge with many levels. I imagine there must be a secret route or two. Not sure if this was covered but what's going on with Sam's breath in the trailer, you can clearly see it, I can't tell if he and Bran are outside but if they are inside that's a problem. Any thoughts? It could be that upper walkway that's covered, maybe meeting Jon and Dany. Re: Sam It could be that they are outside waiting or inside. If there are Wight's chasing Arya inside the castle than that's a huge problem. Although, I would think they would take Bran to the crypts along with the women and children.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 6, 2019 9:18:28 GMT -5
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Post by sercreighton on Mar 6, 2019 9:58:29 GMT -5
moiafThe Night King 7 pointed star thing is interesting, it may be nothing or it feeds into the theory that he was an. Andal King the Knight King, some charming handsome genius came up with that theory a few years ago. Or a charming clown is totally wrong. I still think he's a Casterly and related to the Starks, Casterly disappeared during the long night and the Starks and Lannisters appeared. I think the call with Tyrion being behind Dany could be right on, or Tyrion could be bringing up her relationship with Jon post reveal. If Tyrion is there and it's about the Cersei backstab this would be yet another call he totally blew. Either way he blew his call with Cersei. So he's looking pretty useless since his arrival in Westeros. Sansa on the other hand is going full on team Dany. She changes her hair to match, she got the ascot and let's not forget her dragon fish dress.
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Post by sercreighton on Mar 6, 2019 10:25:14 GMT -5
alcasinoroyale konradsmith I saw you talking about the GC and the "Leaks" So going by plot beats it never made a lot of sense a battle right before the biggest battle in cinimatic history which has its own episode. Timeline and episode wise this is what I see. Episode 1. The arrival, everyone arrives. As Jon and Dany arrive in Winterfell and settle in Euron and The GC arrive at KL. I think that's who Cersei is waiting for, she is on the pier. The duel arrival mirroring eachother, which pretty standard juxtaposition that D&D and Martin like. You also probably close the episode with the reveal that Jon is Dany's nephew and she may be pregnant, while at the same time Cersei loses her child. Episode 2 is aftermath of the big reveal and probably battle preparation and Jon and Dany go see the Dragons and take the whole new world magic dragon ride. That's speculation. Jon in the crypts, Bran vision maybe Ed, Tormund, and Beric. But really I think this is the aftermath episodes for Dany, Jon and Cersei. Episode 3. The throw down. I don't think the GC shows up and that's why the army of the north is outside at night. Also it would just be an odd beat to throw the GC in there for five minutes right before the real battle. They could do it and they would get slaughtered by the army of the dead given they have nothing to fight them with. The shot with Jaime and Pod fighting and Bri fighting on the wall all look like the same battle. Of note Pod is holding a Dragonglass weapon much like Arya has a Dragonglass weapon in her chase scene. Episode 4. The retreat to KL. Episode. 5. I think that shot of Cersei in the throne room with Harry and Euronis this episode. I think someone is arriving and that someone is Jon. That could also be the end of episode 4. Either way I think it's post the battle of Winterfell. This puts yet another nail in yet another leak that Cersei is out of power when Jon arrives. To the contrary she may be in a far greater position of strength than we have been led to believe. Which basically changes the entire KL story we have been told. So Jon meets with her as the army of the north is trapped between a rock and a hard place. This gives Cersei a good chance at winning. Well at least until someone blows open the gate. Battle number 2. Episode 6. That's a wrap. Someone has to take out the NK in Episodes 4-6. That's the only way this ends. We know there is a second battle at the gate of KL and we know the Army of the North are there. We. Have seen zero evidence of the Undead at KL. Not to say the NK won't be there, but we have no visual support. This seems to be turning out much different than the Fleaks, and at the very least D&D appear to want Cersei to be a much more viable contender to hold the crown, and that makes much more sense from a dramatic tension point of view rather than Cersei already being out of power. If the GC stay in KL this also keeps Euron in check with her.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 6, 2019 10:27:41 GMT -5
moiafThe Night King 7 pointed star thing is interesting, it may be nothing or it feeds into the theory that he was an. Andal King the Knight King, some charming handsome genius came up with that theory a few years ago. Or a charming clown is totally wrong. I still think he's a Casterly and related to the Starks, Casterly disappeared during the long night and the Starks and Lannisters appeared. I think the call with Tyrion being behind Dany could be right on, or Tyrion could be bringing up her relationship with Jon post reveal. If Tyrion is there and it's about the Cersei backstab this would be yet another call he totally blew. Either way he blew his call with Cersei. So he's looking pretty useless since his arrival in Westeros. Sansa on the other hand is going full on team Dany. She changes her hair to match, she got the ascot and let's not forget her dragon fish dress. I remember the theory and now I'm thinking that thus intrepid young man might have been on to something, who knows. I do find it extremely interesting that they chose to add a seven-pointed star pupil design for the NK. They are always so meticulous with the costumes, it definitely signifies something, what that is only time will tell.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Mar 6, 2019 10:46:43 GMT -5
I don’t think, at this point, that Cersei will be “out of power” unless she’s dead.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Mar 6, 2019 14:24:57 GMT -5
Why is it starting to feel like the Night King storyline gets wrapped up in Episode 3? If that’s the big huge WF battle, what else is there to do after that?
IIRC we were saying some time ago maybe the first half of the season is the Long Night and the second half is the aftermath/power struggle, but I kind of gave up on that. Maybe we were right...?
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Post by sercreighton on Mar 6, 2019 14:25:51 GMT -5
moiaf The Night King 7 pointed star thing is interesting, it may be nothing or it feeds into the theory that he was an. Andal King the Knight King, some charming handsome genius came up with that theory a few years ago. Or a charming clown is totally wrong. I still think he's a Casterly and related to the Starks, Casterly disappeared during the long night and the Starks and Lannisters appeared. I think the call with Tyrion being behind Dany could be right on, or Tyrion could be bringing up her relationship with Jon post reveal. If Tyrion is there and it's about the Cersei backstab this would be yet another call he totally blew. Either way he blew his call with Cersei. So he's looking pretty useless since his arrival in Westeros. Sansa on the other hand is going full on team Dany. She changes her hair to match, she got the ascot and let's not forget her dragon fish dress. I remember the theory and now I'm thinking that thus intrepid young man might have been on to something, who knows. I do find it extremely interesting that they chose to add a seven-pointed star pupil design for the NK. They are always so meticulous with the costumes, it definitely signifies something, what that is only time will tell. Ha, on a serious note, you are right what they did to his eyes is deliberate, it's both eyes and a change from what we have seen. Reminds me of the story of Symeon Star eyes. Like the number 13 and the last hero, this again touches on ancient myths tied to the Night Fort. I don't think he is Symeon, but rather a clue about the past. Symeon and his blue star eyes, Cerwyn and his mirror shield and dragon slaying. The last hero and his 13, the Night King and his 13. It would seem that the watch, and knights are closely connected to the Others. The name Symeon also means obediant, and in religion he was the first to see the messiah. In this cas he may have served another that could raise the dead and perform miracles or magic in this case. I don't know if Bran became the night King, but I suspect he is related to him. Maybe his brother, or perhaps a close friend at some point.
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Post by sercreighton on Mar 6, 2019 14:38:35 GMT -5
Why is it starting to feel like the Night King storyline gets wrapped up in Episode 3? If that’s the big huge WF battle, what else is there to do after that? IIRC we were saying some time ago maybe the first half of the season is the Long Night and the second half is the aftermath/power struggle, but I kind of gave up on that. Maybe we were right...? Maybe you were, though from filming spoilers, it looked like during the retreat or march to KL the army of the dawn was being harassed by Wights. But that was in the northern night shoots, the KL shoot showed zero evidence of Wights. Did not show much of a battle at KL. It's like 55 days of night shoots in the north, and some minor shooting at the KL set location and then the fire which was also one day. There is a second battle there but the scope at KL is much smaller and we have no signs of a second major battle with hundreds of extras or anything even close to that. The shots is in KL seem to indicate the army from the north forced the gate, maybe took the city. But again no major battle filming spotted. Jon meeting with Cersei may have been trying to negotiate a surrender but it looks like they have to take the city. NK may be done by episode 4. That also seems like something D&D would prefer, focusing on Cersei and not mashing in the NK with that storyline.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Mar 6, 2019 14:50:05 GMT -5
Why is it starting to feel like the Night King storyline gets wrapped up in Episode 3? If that’s the big huge WF battle, what else is there to do after that? IIRC we were saying some time ago maybe the first half of the season is the Long Night and the second half is the aftermath/power struggle, but I kind of gave up on that. Maybe we were right...? Maybe you were, though from filming spoilers, it looked like during the retreat or march to KL the army of the dawn was being harassed by Wights. But that was in the northern night shoots, the KL shoot showed zero evidence of Wights. Did not show much of a battle at KL. It's like 55 days of night shoots in the north, and some minor shooting at the KL set location and then the fire which was also one day. There is a second battle there but the scope at KL is much smaller and we have no signs of a second major battle with hundreds of extras or anything even close to that. The shots is in KL seem to indicate the army from the north forced the gate, maybe took the city. But again no major battle filming spotted. Jon meeting with Cersei may have been trying to negotiate a surrender but it looks like they have to take the city. NK may be done by episode 4. That also seems like something D&D would prefer, focusing on Cersei and not mashing in the NK with that storyline.yeah I know how much the writers favor Lena/Cersei, so it wouldn’t surprise me. Also it feels kind of fitting that the finale of Game of Thrones is based around, well, the throne, and not a horde of ice zombies. But then again, who knows?
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Post by konradsmith on Mar 6, 2019 15:04:42 GMT -5
The KL battle shoot was actually quite long with quite a lot of extras. But it's very unlikely the NK's taken out in 803. What's more likely is his army's greatly depleted in the WF battle and he goes to KL to replenish his army with the city's massive population. There was a huge amount of foreshadowing in ep. 707 to this effect.
So the KL bit won't be some Scouring of the Shire type coda, so much as it'll be a Hardhome-esque evacuation sequence with WAY more people and way higher stakes and Cersei and/or Euron sabotaging that effort at every turn. Incidentally, shooting info indicates that Cersei is very likely alive in the finale. So in power or out, she lives much longer than many are predicting.
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Post by sercreighton on Mar 6, 2019 15:12:46 GMT -5
Yeah, and I would agree that it's more appropriate for the end of the Cersei storyline to be about Cersei, well it's the end of all storylines but the final 2 episodes should focus on the main KL plot. Which is not about the NK, that's a lot of character plots and subplots.
It's a double ending ala the Lord of the rings. And Martin has mentioned that several times.
Not to mention if there is a second NK battle, it's missing. We have not seen any sign of it. Which makes me think if it does exist it's small and involves the dragons similar to Deamon vs Aemond in the battle of the gods eye which is a favorite type ending of MoIaF. That's a sound stage battle.
It would also mean Jon makes it cause Jon was filming in KL with Cersei. Though it seems Davos didn't make it as he typically escorts Jon to meetings. I understand certain people not being there, Sansa, Bri, Jaime, Tyrion, but not Davos, that's literally his job and Jon is with a couple of members of the Watch. It's not a lock but it's not a great sign either.
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Post by Envie on Mar 6, 2019 15:13:53 GMT -5
Episode. 5. I think that shot of Cersei in the throne room with Harry and Euronis this episode. I think someone is arriving and that someone is Jon. That could also be the end of episode 4. Either way I think it's post the battle of Winterfell. This puts yet another nail in yet another leak that Cersei is out of power when Jon arrives. To the contrary she may be in a far greater position of strength than we have been led to believe. Which basically changes the entire KL story we have been told. So Jon meets with her as the army of the north is trapped between a rock and a hard place. This gives Cersei a good chance at winning. Well at least until someone blows open the gate. Battle number 2. I think you may be on the money here. I never really got on board with all the speculation that the Golden Company would show up at Winterfell just before or even during the epic battle scene episode. I know people claim they spotted an army outside the Winterfell set during filming that wasn't undead but that may have been the combined Winterfell/Northerner/Vale/Unsullied/Dothraki army setting up for the incoming undead invasion. For the serious heavy battle-scene Sapochnik has in store for us (claiming to be the biggest one ever done), I think he wanted to keep the focus on the fight for survival from all our heroes. I re-read the EW interview with Sapochnik and he talks a lot about how he went around to each of the actors who would have focus spotlights in the battle and reminded them where they were or asked them "What are you doing right now, where are you at?" even when they were not on-camera or it wasn't their scene. He wanted everyone to feel like they were in a single flowing event that was not a lot of cut-and-paste editing of individual scenes because with such a long battle, you have to be mindful of people's attention. He mentioned how long an audience can watch actual 'hack and slash' before they get battle weary and don't want to watch anymore and how he tried to avoid that. To me, this means he was carefully weaving together a lot of storylines and small moments of drama or dialogue for everyone to make that happen and still flow with the battle. Long story short, where do you put in an entirely different army and their story? Ain't nobody got time for that! We have one goal in this battle - survive the undead and get as many people out of Winterfell as possible. I'm seriously nervous as I think we may end up losing a lot of our favorites in this battle.
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