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Post by konradsmith on Jul 27, 2016 4:01:55 GMT -5
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Jul 29, 2016 18:31:27 GMT -5
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 11, 2016 12:31:46 GMT -5
Not really a parallel (except to themselves) but here's a cool compilation of how much each character changed from Season 1 to Season 6. The only one I think could have been done better was Tommen, because he was recast anyways and as a now dead character probably shouldn't even be on there. I guess that one was some inappropriate comic relief.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 15, 2016 12:30:33 GMT -5
Okay so here is an odd one, the mother and the father. In episode 10 Season 6 and this has been talked about we got the remarks from the High Sparrow about the Mother and the Father while he went on and on with one of his lectures.
So looking at the mother and father theme, we have Dany of course. Dany is generally pretty easy, she can often act as a sort of key with parallels. But this one is sort of about one parallel and another and balance. I am sorry I am not very good with the picture thing or would post more captions. This also appears to be a theme the show is fond of. This also shows how characters grow and change.
So season 6 episode 10.
Now as we know Dany is often referred to as mother, it is a primary symbolic core of her character and there are just to many quotes to actually go into it. But we all know Dany essentially = Mother. But Cersei is also often refered to as mother and we get this sort of natural juxtaposed mother symbolism. Where Dany will take in those who are not of her blood and guard them as her own, and protect them, while Cersei may lover children it's hard to say she has been a good mother. Very different situations and very different results. But often we here them both referred to as mother and both women can be extreme. Dany can go from acts of ultimate love, like in Yunkai where she is placed on the freed slaves shoulders. To moments of waking the dragon, such as the famed 163. Both women have a desire to rule,but in the case of Dany we see the strength of her children growing while Cersei no longer has children.
"The gods justice is fierce but also fair."
"The Warrior punishes those who believe themselves beyond the reach of justice. But the mother shows her mercy to those who kneel before her."
Justice and Mercy.
Now this idea led me back to Yunkai but also to Selmy and the Night's King.
In Astapor Dany unleashes justice upon the Masters.
In Yunkai mercy, one city burns and in the other we get the famous scene of Dany being lifted up by the freed slaves.
But in the third city we get Dany searching for balance. And this theme will pop up once again and the resolution takes some time.
Season 4 Episode 4. Oathkeeper.
In the books and show Meereen wakes the dragon once more with the execution of 163 children. Dany responds with the execution of 163 Masters.
Selmy: "Sometimes it is better to answer injustice with Mercy"
Dany: "I will answer injustice with Justice."
The Dragon will go dormant for the most part in Meereen, in the books Dany seeks rest from the conflict. But Meereen will be full of conflict from start to finish.
Justice and Mercy is no easy balancing act in Essos with the slavers. The slavers have this horrible habit of just begging for it.
Fast forward years later to Season 6 Episode 9.
Like the 3 slaver cities, we are given 3 slavers. A pact was made between Tyrion and the slavers in his own attempt to find balance. Dany has returned and once more the Dragon has been roused by the slavers provocation. They have broken their pact, and attacked Meereen. Dany who had been separated from all three for some time. Reunited with Drogon and then Viserion and the Green Dragon nobody wants for some reason. Dany's plan? Justice, she will burn the slavers, burn their ships, and burn their cities. Tyrion quickly talks her down. No, no, burning cities is bad despite how bad the masters are begging for it, as he once more brings up her father and Jaime.
Dany: I will crucify the masters, I will set their fleets a fire, kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.
Tyrion goes on to explain her fathers plan to her. Including wildfire under the Sept of Balor.
Dany: This is entirely different.
Tyrion: We are talking about destroying cities. It's not entirely different.
Dany takes to the skies once more and destroys a few of the Masters ships, you can see it was actually more than one on the background shot were a few of them are burning. Tyrion will go on to explain the reality of the situation to the Masters after their troops decide it's not worth it.
Tyrion: Now last time we spoke we made a pact. You violated that pact, you declared war upon us. Though are queen does have a forgiving nature, this cannot be forgiven.
Forgiveness of punishment being the definition of mercy. And like the 163 the slavers are once more given a choice as to who should be punished. And of course you know the result, one of them is spared. Injustice was met with both justice and mercy and it was from that moment that Dany could finally move on. The unity of opposition. Justice here being the punishment of crimes, and mercy being the forgiveness of crimes.
Tyrion: Tell your people what happened here, tell them you live by the grace of her majesty. When they come forward with notions of retribution or ideas of returning the slave cities to their former glory. Remind them what happened when Daenerys Stormborn and her dragons came to Meereen.
In stark contrast to Dany who with her Lannister Hand found a balance. Cersei is juxtaposed to her, doing exactly what Tyrion said not to do, losing the last of her 3 children, and clearly creating a rift between her own Lannister who happens to be marked by a golden hand. Tyrions symbolic hand is silver. Dany uses both Justice and mercy in her scene while Cersei meets justice with injustice for her own crimes and retribution instead of mercy.
While they share parallels the theme, tone and symbolism is inverted or juxtaposed. Now justice can have it moments of course and I rather enjoyed the Masters getting crucified. Sure it was harsh justice but blame Martin. It's not that hard to lean that way when you introduce slavers who murder children for sport or to make an example, kill babies as a training exercise, murder and eat puppies, kill puppies as a training exercise, and crucify 163 kids to make an example. And Mercy has it's moments like Yunkai, but the characters are at their best when they find those moments of balance. Or in the case of Cersei she is at her best when she is totally imbalanced at least for thematic purpose. While they share parallels they also stand as an example of contrast and juxtaposed themes. Not only are the themes of Justice and Mercy on display, but what happens when they unite. While their mirror is also on display. In the end scene Dany will sail west, with the sun behind her. If someone is sailing west then the sun behind them means it is rising.
There is another interesting scene in Season 4 Episode 4. That you might want to consider as well. The Night's King holding a child, little baby boy blue literally becomes little baby boy blue. He has his adopted children as well. Though again like Cersei we see a stark contrast as well.
The idea of justice and mercy is on full display in episodes 9 and 10 of season 6. Ramsey is met with Justice at the hands of Jon and Sansa. While the lords of the North who refused to support them are met with Mercy when they kneel before Jon. Much as the one slaver who kneels is also met with mercy. In the often displayed circles of Dany being lifted up and Jon struggling for air we see a parallel but why the contrast is it life and death? While I think that is on display, I believe they stand in contrast because they represent slightly different poles. Yunkai was mercy on display and in the battle of the bastards Jon Sansa and some of the north were seeking justice against the Ramsey. Which Lyanna reminds us of when Jon is hailed. She is essentially saying, you were wronged, and you were wronged, and you were wronged by the Boltons and yet you feared to seek justice for you family and Jon did it for you. At which point forgiveness is brought up by Manderly.
I used the word stark a lot in this post. Not that I am hinting at anything. I would never do that. Now I know we discuss parallels and that this parallel has been discussed, but for some odd reason I wanted to point out what happens when we see a balance between two contrasting themes like Justice and Mercy.
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ladystoneboobs
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Sept 2, 2016 19:03:44 GMT -5
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Sept 4, 2016 20:50:50 GMT -5
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Post by Envie on Sept 18, 2016 9:44:55 GMT -5
Love that parallel between Bran and Jon ladystoneboobs. Further proof to me Bran's going to play a significant role in the battle of winter somehow. He and Jon both hopefully together.
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Post by Envie on Sept 18, 2016 10:10:32 GMT -5
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Sept 19, 2016 1:58:55 GMT -5
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Post by Envie on Sept 29, 2016 11:19:40 GMT -5
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Sept 29, 2016 16:39:21 GMT -5
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Oct 2, 2016 11:41:28 GMT -5
Excellent catch! I wonder if we are meant to extract anything from the two scenes.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Oct 2, 2016 11:53:26 GMT -5
Excellent catch! I wonder if we are meant to extract anything from the two scenes. My take away from this parallel is that both Jon and Dany are slowly learning that if you want people to respect you, you have to fight for them yourself. Much as Ned instilled in his children "The man who passes the sentence must swing the sword." This is the northern way. Daenerys is not a traditional warrior in the sense of swinging a sword and hand-to-hand combat, but she's definitely proven she'll do the fighting where needed for her people. She's now fearless on Drogon and has learned instinctively how to fight from dragon-back the way her ancestors did too. This is really along the same lines as the topic we were just discussing about her maturing in her ideals of leadership. Respect is not a right. You don't demand it, you earn it.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Oct 2, 2016 12:00:07 GMT -5
Excellent catch! I wonder if we are meant to extract anything from the two scenes. My take away from this parallel is that both Jon and Dany are slowly learning that if you want people to respect you, you have to fight for them yourself. Much as Ned instilled in his children "The man who passes the sentence must swing the sword." This is the northern way. Daenerys is not a traditional warrior in the sense of swinging a sword and hand-to-hand combat, but she's definitely proven she'll do the fighting where needed for her people. She's now fearless on Drogon and has learned instinctively how to fight from dragon-back the way her ancestors did too. This is really along the same lines as the topic we were just discussing about her maturing in her ideals of leadership. Respect is not a right. You don't demand it, you earn it. Good point. With Jon he had Ned, the most honorable man in ASOAIF, so he has a good foundation. With Dany, I think she instinctively gets it. We see this with her actions in Astapor, where had she failed she would have forfeited her life and that of her followers. Now, as we discussed she's matured (and still maturing) and is becoming more sophisticated / consiacious about the way she approaches these things. She is also now about to really fight, in her way, which is on dragon back.
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Post by mandzipop on Oct 3, 2016 22:03:26 GMT -5
A contrast of black and white. Jon has been dressed in black for the first 5 and a half seasons and known as a crow. Although his surname is snow. At the end of season 6 his was called the white wolf. For the majority of the show, Dany has worn a lot of white. Sometimes pale blue, but white seems to be her main colour.
At the beginning of season 6 in episode 1 Dany was wearing a dirty white dress. Then she went on to wear brown, then in episode 10 she was wearing black. At the beginning of season 6 in episode 1 Jon is wearing black. Then he goes onto wearing brown for the rest of the season. However he does become known as the white wolf.
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