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Post by mandzipop on Jul 4, 2016 2:25:10 GMT -5
Had an idea of what will happen at the wall for season 7. Bran will cross and start preparing for the journey to Winterfell from Castle Black. He'll learn that Jon is KitN via a raven. However, I think that the wall will start to crack. The whitewalkers won't initially be able to cross until it has fallen. The wall will fall at the end of the season, but it won't be a huge shock. Winterfell is protected by the same magic I presume as the wall and the cave. That means that Bran cannot return to Winterfell until the Whitewalkers are defeated. Huh? You think he's just gonna stay at CB and then when the wall falls...what? Depends on how the magic works. With the cave it was only temporary protection magic and whoever cast it and what it is guarding no longer exists. Once the wall starts to crack it will eventually fall. That doesn't apply to Winterfell. It maybe that the magic doesn't work when he is there. However I suspect his arrival to Winterfell could be what triggers the wall to actually fall. If Bran leaves then Winterfell maybe safe again depending on whether there is a Stark in Winterfell. However, is there a Stark in Winterfell? You could argue there isn't and that Arya is the last Stark. The show has hammered home that Sansa is no longer a Stark, she is Lannister/Bolton. Jon is a Snow (although as he believes he is a Stark and Ghost is alive which represents his Stark identity) he might fulfill the criteria. Bran is the 3 eyed Raven which means not only is he marked, he has temporarily (maybe permanently) lost his Stark identity. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell is said for a reason. If Jon is not enough the protection is already broken anyway. Bran may have to go see Howland Reed with Meera. I believe Arya's purpose is to protect Winterfell and continue the Stark name.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 5:25:48 GMT -5
Had an idea of what will happen at the wall for season 7. Bran will cross and start preparing for the journey to Winterfell from Castle Black. He'll learn that Jon is KitN via a raven. However, I think that the wall will start to crack. The whitewalkers won't initially be able to cross until it has fallen. The wall will fall at the end of the season, but it won't be a huge shock. Winterfell is protected by the same magic I presume as the wall and the cave. That means that Bran cannot return to Winterfell until the Whitewalkers are defeated. Someone mentioned that they had a suspicion that when a Stark loses their direwolf, they either die or lose their Stark identity. Robb is dead, Rickon is dead, Sansa lost Lady and everyone insists she is now a Bolton or a Lannister, Bran lost Summer and he is now the Three Eyed Raven. For Jon to defeat the Whitewalkers, if he must ride a dragon, he has to lose his Stark identity which means Ghost must die ( ). Arya is currently lost and has no identity. Nymeria is in the Riverlands and I believe they need to be reunited for Arya to regain her Stark identity. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell and to me that suggests that Arya must be the Stark in Winterfell to keep the magic alive. The direwolves deaths are significant and I think that will be the same book and show. Grey Wind dies, Robb dies. Shaggydog dies, Rickon dies. Summer dies, winter comes. Ghost dies, Jon becomes a Targaryan. Sansa is the one I can't place. It will probably make sense, but losing Lady, does it mean she will never be a ruling lady? Does it mean she will be a Queen? Does it mean she will be content and end up with Sandor? Not sure I can see SanSan in the show. Maybe she represents a world without magic. It is hard to pin down what Sansa's importance is in the grand scheme of things and the wars to come. The fact that she has survived so long without a direwolf or magical abilities or special skills that could involve magic suggests she must be important. Sansa's trajectory is the biggest mystery to me out of the Starks. I currently cannot see what the long term point in her character being around is right now. So my conclusion is that in season 7 Ghost will die and Arya will reunite with Nymeria. Interesting thoughts on the symbolism of losing a direwolf and what it means for the person! I think you could be right, that the wall is effected by bran walking through, but it doesn't get knocked down until later in the season. However i think Bran will get somewhere safe, perhaps he will reside in the Godswood next to winterfell, as he does need a tree.
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Post by mandzipop on Jul 4, 2016 9:51:04 GMT -5
Had an idea of what will happen at the wall for season 7. Bran will cross and start preparing for the journey to Winterfell from Castle Black. He'll learn that Jon is KitN via a raven. However, I think that the wall will start to crack. The whitewalkers won't initially be able to cross until it has fallen. The wall will fall at the end of the season, but it won't be a huge shock. Winterfell is protected by the same magic I presume as the wall and the cave. That means that Bran cannot return to Winterfell until the Whitewalkers are defeated. Someone mentioned that they had a suspicion that when a Stark loses their direwolf, they either die or lose their Stark identity. Robb is dead, Rickon is dead, Sansa lost Lady and everyone insists she is now a Bolton or a Lannister, Bran lost Summer and he is now the Three Eyed Raven. For Jon to defeat the Whitewalkers, if he must ride a dragon, he has to lose his Stark identity which means Ghost must die ( ). Arya is currently lost and has no identity. Nymeria is in the Riverlands and I believe they need to be reunited for Arya to regain her Stark identity. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell and to me that suggests that Arya must be the Stark in Winterfell to keep the magic alive. The direwolves deaths are significant and I think that will be the same book and show. Grey Wind dies, Robb dies. Shaggydog dies, Rickon dies. Summer dies, winter comes. Ghost dies, Jon becomes a Targaryan. Sansa is the one I can't place. It will probably make sense, but losing Lady, does it mean she will never be a ruling lady? Does it mean she will be a Queen? Does it mean she will be content and end up with Sandor? Not sure I can see SanSan in the show. Maybe she represents a world without magic. It is hard to pin down what Sansa's importance is in the grand scheme of things and the wars to come. The fact that she has survived so long without a direwolf or magical abilities or special skills that could involve magic suggests she must be important. Sansa's trajectory is the biggest mystery to me out of the Starks. I currently cannot see what the long term point in her character being around is right now. So my conclusion is that in season 7 Ghost will die and Arya will reunite with Nymeria. Interesting thoughts on the symbolism of losing a direwolf and what it means for the person! I think you could be right, that the wall is effected by bran walking through, but it doesn't get knocked down until later in the season. However i think Bran will get somewhere safe, perhaps he will reside in the Godswood next to winterfell, as he does need a tree. I think Bran will be safe. That is why I think it will initially crack. The Nights Watch will be sending Ravens to Winterfell.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 5, 2016 2:59:49 GMT -5
Huh? You think he's just gonna stay at CB and then when the wall falls...what? Depends on how the magic works. With the cave it was only temporary protection magic and whoever cast it and what it is guarding no longer exists. Once the wall starts to crack it will eventually fall. That doesn't apply to Winterfell. It maybe that the magic doesn't work when he is there. However I suspect his arrival to Winterfell could be what triggers the wall to actually fall. If Bran leaves then Winterfell maybe safe again depending on whether there is a Stark in Winterfell. However, is there a Stark in Winterfell? No, there's two, or at least one and a half (Jon). If Cersei can still be a Lannister all her life, Margaery could still be a Tyrell, and Catelyn could consider herself both a Tully and a Stark, then Sansa can be both the Widow Bolton and the Lady of Winterfell. We've had no evidence the old gods/forces of magic are as misogynistic as the actual people in Westeros.
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Post by mandzipop on Jul 5, 2016 6:05:33 GMT -5
Depends on how the magic works. With the cave it was only temporary protection magic and whoever cast it and what it is guarding no longer exists. Once the wall starts to crack it will eventually fall. That doesn't apply to Winterfell. It maybe that the magic doesn't work when he is there. However I suspect his arrival to Winterfell could be what triggers the wall to actually fall. If Bran leaves then Winterfell maybe safe again depending on whether there is a Stark in Winterfell. However, is there a Stark in Winterfell? No, there's two, or at least one and a half (Jon). If Cersei can still be a Lannister all her life, Margaery could still be a Tyrell, and Catelyn could consider herself both a Tully and a Stark, then Sansa can be both the Widow Bolton and the Lady of Winterfell. We've had no evidence the old gods/forces of magic are as misogynistic as the actual people in Westeros. I'm just pointing it out that the show is hammering it home that nobody (other than Jon) views Sansa as a Stark. The show does these things for a reason. Something was lost when Lady died. It just isn't clear what it was. I'm just suggesting it could be her Stark identity via her name.
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Post by Envie on Jul 5, 2016 9:03:07 GMT -5
No, there's two, or at least one and a half (Jon). If Cersei can still be a Lannister all her life, Margaery could still be a Tyrell, and Catelyn could consider herself both a Tully and a Stark, then Sansa can be both the Widow Bolton and the Lady of Winterfell. We've had no evidence the old gods/forces of magic are as misogynistic as the actual people in Westeros. I'm just pointing it out that the show is hammering it home that nobody (other than Jon) views Sansa as a Stark. The show does these things for a reason. Something was lost when Lady died. It just isn't clear what it was. I'm just suggesting it could be her Stark identity via her name. I always felt Sansa losing Lady because of Cersei is what symbolically cursed Sansa to become the "No One" Stark even more than Arya really. Sansa became a pawn from that moment forward and has been ever since. Some probably consider her still a pawn now even after coming home to Winterfell. I would not go so far as to call it misogynistic but as far as typical Medieval drama goes, Sansa has played the part of "Lady" for most of her life. It's just the way beautiful noble females had it for a majority of the time. Women like Brienne, or Arya, or Lady Mormont (the elder one who fought in the war) are rare exceptions to the rule of how a "Lady" is expected to behave. I never ever saw Sansa becoming one of those types of women. She uses her "courtesy armor" ... that term has not been used on the show but it was her mantra in the books. She has it fully on now and has come full circle back into her own rights, even without her Dire Wolf. That says something for her courage and strength.
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Post by mandzipop on Jul 5, 2016 13:13:57 GMT -5
I'm just pointing it out that the show is hammering it home that nobody (other than Jon) views Sansa as a Stark. The show does these things for a reason. Something was lost when Lady died. It just isn't clear what it was. I'm just suggesting it could be her Stark identity via her name. I always felt Sansa losing Lady because of Cersei is what symbolically cursed Sansa to become the "No One" Stark even more than Arya really. Sansa became a pawn from that moment forward and has been ever since. Some probably consider her still a pawn now even after coming home to Winterfell. I would not go so far as to call it misogynistic but as far as typical Medieval drama goes, Sansa has played the part of "Lady" for most of her life. It's just the way beautiful noble females had it for a majority of the time. Women like Brienne, or Arya, or Lady Mormont (the elder one who fought in the war) are rare exceptions to the rule of how a "Lady" is expected to behave. I never ever saw Sansa becoming one of those types of women. She uses her "courtesy armor" ... that term has not been used on the show but it was her mantra in the books. She has it fully on now and has come full circle back into her own rights, even without her Dire Wolf. That says something for her courage and strength. I agree in her heart she is a Stark, however, as a result of her actions her direwolf was killed and Ned died too because of her betrayal. The old gods would see that as a betrayal to her Stark heritage and that rules her out of actually being classed as a Stark. Her name is symbolic of that.
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 6, 2016 0:59:33 GMT -5
I always felt Sansa losing Lady because of Cersei is what symbolically cursed Sansa to become the "No One" Stark even more than Arya really. Sansa became a pawn from that moment forward and has been ever since. Some probably consider her still a pawn now even after coming home to Winterfell. I would not go so far as to call it misogynistic but as far as typical Medieval drama goes, Sansa has played the part of "Lady" for most of her life. It's just the way beautiful noble females had it for a majority of the time. Women like Brienne, or Arya, or Lady Mormont (the elder one who fought in the war) are rare exceptions to the rule of how a "Lady" is expected to behave. I never ever saw Sansa becoming one of those types of women. She uses her "courtesy armor" ... that term has not been used on the show but it was her mantra in the books. She has it fully on now and has come full circle back into her own rights, even without her Dire Wolf. That says something for her courage and strength. I agree in her heart she is a Stark, however, as a result of her actions her direwolf was killed and Ned died too because of her betrayal. The old gods would see that as a betrayal to her Stark heritage and that rules her out of actually being classed as a Stark. Her name is symbolic of that. let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 4:49:18 GMT -5
I agree in her heart she is a Stark, however, as a result of her actions her direwolf was killed and Ned died too because of her betrayal. The old gods would see that as a betrayal to her Stark heritage and that rules her out of actually being classed as a Stark. Her name is symbolic of that. let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway. It is pretty relevant to the show, though. Sansa, still thinking of Cersei and Joffrey as good people, told them of Ned's plans. Which is part of the reason everything went to hell. Her betrayal is not the direct reason Ned lost, but part of it anyway.
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Post by mattpeto on Jul 6, 2016 6:06:11 GMT -5
let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway. It is pretty relevant to the show, though. Sansa, still thinking of Cersei and Joffrey as good people, told them of Ned's plans. Which is part of the reason everything went to hell. Her betrayal is not the direct reason Ned lost, but part of it anyway. In a indirect way, Sansa surely has blood on her hands. But so does everybody else in this universe.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 6, 2016 7:44:27 GMT -5
let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway. It is pretty relevant to the show, though. Sansa, still thinking of Cersei and Joffrey as good people, told them of Ned's plans. Which is part of the reason everything went to hell. Her betrayal is not the direct reason Ned lost, but part of it anyway. That was't in s1 though. That was cut.
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Post by mandzipop on Jul 6, 2016 8:05:03 GMT -5
I agree in her heart she is a Stark, however, as a result of her actions her direwolf was killed and Ned died too because of her betrayal. The old gods would see that as a betrayal to her Stark heritage and that rules her out of actually being classed as a Stark. Her name is symbolic of that. let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway. I think you are missing the point of my posts. It is related to season 7 general speculation. I'm trying to predict the future of the direwolves in season 7 and I'm using potential comparisons from what has happened in previous seasons to see if it can give us a clue as to where they are taking the show from the perspective of the direwolves. I believe there is some link to the loss of the Stark name/identity and the survival of said Stark if their direwolf dies. I might be wrong but I think there is a pattern. I'm just speculating on what that pattern might be. I believe that if a Stark child loses their identity/name then they can survive the death of their direwolf. Arya lost Nymeria but she also tried to lose her identity and was running and hiding. At the end of season 6 she embraced her name and identity. That leads me to believe that we will see Nymeria in season 7. I don't think Jon will need to embrace his Targaryan heritage in season 7. He possibly might need to do that in season 8. I think that safeguards Ghost for season 7 but condemns him to die in season 8.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 8:06:45 GMT -5
I always felt Sansa losing Lady because of Cersei is what symbolically cursed Sansa to become the "No One" Stark even more than Arya really. Sansa became a pawn from that moment forward and has been ever since. Some probably consider her still a pawn now even after coming home to Winterfell. I would not go so far as to call it misogynistic but as far as typical Medieval drama goes, Sansa has played the part of "Lady" for most of her life. It's just the way beautiful noble females had it for a majority of the time. Women like Brienne, or Arya, or Lady Mormont (the elder one who fought in the war) are rare exceptions to the rule of how a "Lady" is expected to behave. I never ever saw Sansa becoming one of those types of women. She uses her "courtesy armor" ... that term has not been used on the show but it was her mantra in the books. She has it fully on now and has come full circle back into her own rights, even without her Dire Wolf. That says something for her courage and strength. I agree in her heart she is a Stark, however, as a result of her actions her direwolf was killed and Ned died too because of her betrayal. The old gods would see that as a betrayal to her Stark heritage and that rules her out of actually being classed as a Stark. Her name is symbolic of that. let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway. It is pretty relevant to the show, though. Sansa, still thinking of Cersei and Joffrey as good people, told them of Ned's plans. Which is part of the reason everything went to hell. Her betrayal is not the direct reason Ned lost, but part of it anyway. Sansa never betrayed her father on the show. She heard of the accusations against her father for the first time in this scene . Cersei, Littlefinger, Pycelle and Varys all knew about Ned's plans before Sansa did.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 8:08:01 GMT -5
let's pls not get into that nonsense which isn't relevant at all to the show anyway. I think you are missing the point of my posts. It is related to season 7 general speculation. I'm trying to predict the future of the direwolves in season 7 and I'm using potential comparisons from what has happened in previous seasons to see if it can give us a clue as to where they are taking the show from the perspective of the direwolves. I believe there is some link to the loss of the Stark name/identity and the survival of said Stark if their direwolf dies. I might be wrong but I think there is a pattern. I'm just speculating on what that pattern might be. I believe that if a Stark child loses their identity/name then they can survive the death of their direwolf. Arya lost Nymeria but she also tried to lose her identity and was running and hiding. At the end of season 6 she embraced her name and identity. That leads me to believe that we will see Nymeria in season 7. I don't think Jon will need to embrace his Targaryan heritage in season 7. He possibly might need to do that in season 8. I think that safeguards Ghost for season 7 but condemns him to die in season 8. You could be right about this, though.
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Post by mandzipop on Jul 6, 2016 8:11:50 GMT -5
I agree in her heart she is a Stark, however, as a result of her actions her direwolf was killed and Ned died too because of her betrayal. The old gods would see that as a betrayal to her Stark heritage and that rules her out of actually being classed as a Stark. Her name is symbolic of that. It is pretty relevant to the show, though. Sansa, still thinking of Cersei and Joffrey as good people, told them of Ned's plans. Which is part of the reason everything went to hell. Her betrayal is not the direct reason Ned lost, but part of it anyway. Sansa never betrayed her father on the show. She heard of the accusations against her father for the first time in this scene . Cersei, Littlefinger, Pycelle and Varys all knew about Ned's plans before Sansa did. You could argue the case she betrayed Arya in the show for the sake of a Lannister.
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