izzue
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Post by izzue on May 20, 2019 12:46:19 GMT -5
Was between a 9 and a 10, ending up at a 10. I understand a lot of the negative comments, I do, and agree with some of them. But ending this to everybody's satisfaction was an impossible proposition, and I think they did a great job with many endearing (at least to me) touches. After all is said and done, I love these characters and feel for them, all of them. It's like saying good-bye to dear old friends, which is very sad. I have to say that I've been a Stark devotee from the very beginning, and my faves #1 Arya, #2 Jon, and #3 Tyrion, so I'm pretty happy, overall, and glad Bran wasn't left to fade into oblivion. My teeny little gripes, though - they couldn't spot TWO water bottles on the floor in the council scene????? And this after the coffee cup in WF ... left SMH. Then, the matter of the Dothraki, especially given the shots of them at the beginning of the episode, all ready to go slice off some more heads. I can't imagine them 'blending in' to Westeros or going with Greyworm, either one, so ????? ETA: Like laurya, it has taken me two watches and some careful thought before I could come back here and give a rating. I usually do that right off the bat, but this is the first episode I can remember that I had such a hard time identifying what I was really thinking and feeling about it.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on May 20, 2019 12:48:08 GMT -5
Currently sitting at 5.2 on IMDb Might take Dexter’s place as the most hated finale of all time. Yeah the negativity is incredibly high. I wonder what ending would have put it closer to a 10, but probably none since it was always going to be divisive no matter how it ended. Haha, I think what they wanted could of been pulled off with more time and development. You can tell they built the plot backwards from the ending and basically tried to target a certain amount of plot points as quickly as they could and to try and make it make sense they had to make it very contrived sort of jumping from plot point to plot points without the proper development but trying to give it some quick development. Like the bells, when the bells ring, when the bells ring. Introduced a plot device in the same episode and then rammed it down your throat 35 times. They kept introducing the new direction a plot in the episode and then did the whole thing in that episode. They went for a little to much spectical and didn't really focus on the characters that much. When you rush it out that quickly and try to pack that much in its just going to feel contrived. It can have emotional moments and moments you like, but the journey to get there became very forced in order to finish it.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on May 20, 2019 13:41:09 GMT -5
I am sure people will love this, there are things I liked and things I didn't like.
Music sets a lot of the tone and generates a lot of the emotion and it was done well as usual.
There were some nice shots.
There were some nice moments, I didn't mind pod being KG and wheeling Bran around. Brie and the White book. Dany's speech, and presence. You could feel her command of the situation, even if she is a dictator, she radiated power and even charisma.
I liked the walk through the destruction.
Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersei, he would know where to look he followed the plan he told Jaime.
Most of the acting was great, Emilia was great, Peter was great in the first half.
The bad.
It was very choppy, it felt long and was boring.
Tone bounced around to much and I thought the comedy was poorly placed but also a little to modern feeling. That tended to take me out of the moment.
It like the season felt rushed and contrived.
The Great council was overly contrived, you don't get to decide basiclly I get to decide. To much yuck yuck comedy, Edmure was a clown again.
They didn't show Dany as being mad or crazy, she was basiclly jumping into the role of a dictator and the jump was to quick. Very evil yes, but she became very evil in a day and the logic and reasoning did not fit her overall story.
I didn't like the shot where she looks like she had Dragon wings, that was sort of cool but super Melifacent looking and didn't fit for me.
14 minutes to get to dead twins.
Jon was just a useless moron. He should of known what he had to do.
Davos sort of ignored all the damage and was like we won friend. Some anger should of been there.
Bran is king cause he knows stories. Felt like Martin was stroking his dick, or D&D it's totally stupid, stories can divide, unite, or put you to sleep. Dumb as fuck, no development. And Bran I came here to be King. WTF? Seriously so he knew all these people would die kind of like the long night but let it all happen for his benifit.
The wheel is not broken, nothing really changed the small folk are still fucked and you know the lords will eventually be going into politics and what they stand to gain, and fighting over who will be the next king and they king may want his family to run things and rule and will grant favors and gain support.
Dany was betrayed by everyone, but she played the game the best and was the only person for at least 7 seasons who was always concerned with helping those with no voice or power and they destroyed her for it and D&D went into full character assassination and did it in one episode. Jon wanted to help the world as well and he got fucked for it. Those trying to make a change got fucked, those that did nothing and were total fuck ups got rewarded.
The death scene was very cliche. To cheesy and I didn't feel the pain, the plot was basiclly breaking up with your. Crazy girlfriend, fatel attraction did it way better.
Jon going back to the Wall made no sense, there was no reason other than to get Sansa a dress and a crown and the Starks were basically like okay fuck off now. Come see me? No fuck off.
Tyrion screwed Jon while he essentially became the ruler. But the show tried to play like Tyrion was helping him. No Jon should of been allowed to live his life how he wanted after that. Given this ending, I would rather have seen Jon die with Dany or die during the long night. It all just felt like it was a pure move for shock with no real setup. I love Jon and Dany and I think they both deserved better.
This story could have actually sent a message, about change, progress, the human condition, we fuck up all the time, but we have are moments of greatness as well. Instead they went for this nihilistic bullshit and then tried to tell you it was change. Look the north is indipendent. It's still ruled by one person and nobody gets a vote there. They did these hollow shots of look I am sailing and oh I got a new dress. Oh my what change, lords being lords. Oh gosh the people we like are in power so everything is great now, our lords and kings can do whatever they want to us. Hey we need the Wall we need a place to sbe nd the bastards and criminals. Tyrion was a criminal his punishment was to be hand and they played as nod, nod wink wink joke. In fact they had a lot of that in the episode and it didn't belong there. Dialogue was an issue at times and felt to modern, and too sitcomish.
There was no change, this wasn't the first great council election. Bunch of BS. Story was pointless. The two biggest agents of change were destroyed via character assassination in the last few episodes and they pretend it's poetic change. It's a waste of time. Sort. Like Arya sailing west, congrats you will eventually hit Essos if you don't die, that voyage has been tried a hundred times. By the way when did she becom a sailor? Navigator? She's useless on a ship.
It was basiclly Dany you are now evil for like 10 seconds, Jon you are now a mindless pussy, Sansa you get a new dress and can rule the north as a Tyrant now, Tyrion is totally contrived along with Bran. It was stupid. Pretty but stupid. Didn't hate it, but it was like watching a bad movie. Shallow, long, overly contrived, rushed plot, poorly thought out and developed, some editing issues made it feel choppy at times.
I was thinking 4, but I give it a five for all the past years I enjoyed, I can't give a rating less than 5 in the final episode of all the characters I loved. Even if I didn't like the ending I still loved them and the actors. Most of them. That's the only thing that is making this higher than it should be. It felt to soapy and while I don't mind a good soap opera, this was like Passions kind of bad, complete with Dwarf.
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nikma
Syrax
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Post by nikma on May 20, 2019 17:48:30 GMT -5
I rewatched the episode and it was much better. I was really tired during my first watch. D&D are really good directors I must say.
I will give this episode 9. Because nothing is perfcet, but I really like how they ended the show.
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Post by TheArchmaester on May 20, 2019 18:39:48 GMT -5
I have no idea how to rate this episode so I won't I'm pleased with the overall season though. Gave me 2 or 3 episodes that are Top 10 material.
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konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
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Post by konradsmith on May 20, 2019 20:22:59 GMT -5
I've settled on an eight. It's much better on a second viewing and overall I have a much higher view of this season than seems to be the general consensus (if not here then amongst both the online fandom and the GA). But King Bran needed way more setup. Especially since D and D likely knew about it since about 2013. Like maybe showing a bit of Tyrion and Bran's conversation in ep. 802 at the very least?
Anyways other than that coming out of left field, I didn't mind the tonal shift in the second part of the episode quite as much this time. On first viewing I'd enjoyed the dreamlike apocalyptic atmosphere of the leadup to Dany's death and the burning of the throne so much that the turn back to discussions of Westeros' more mundane topics and its moments of comic relief seemed too frivolous for the show's finale. But on this viewing it all seemed much more in-character. Particularly with Tyrion. As devastated as he was by the events, he's not Jon. He can't brood forever. I still wish that the Small Council scene had been shorter and we'd seen Drogon again but on second viewing, things flowed better and seemed more organic. Perhaps the third viewing will be even more forgiving?
Still I can't help but wonder how much better this episode would've been in someone like Alan Taylor's hands. D and D are pretty good directors and there are some great visual flourishes here, especially in the episode's first half and in the end montage. But the callbacks to eps. 110 and 210 imo would've landed much better if they were shot by the man who helmed those particular eps. I understand why they wanted to direct their own finale of course; they said they'd planned some of these moments for so long that they'd probably step on the toes of anyone else directing it. Which is true and I'm sure they brought things to the table here, knowing the production as they do that others couldn't. Still, I think a more experienced director who has tens of tv episodes under their belt instead of only a few, could've made for a more consistent episode.
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mattpeto
Rhaegal
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Post by mattpeto on May 20, 2019 20:50:05 GMT -5
I’m at 9.
-I’m a sucker for the Starks. I loved the epilogue so much. Ned would be so proud. Jon and Ghost scene brings me to tears. And man Ramin Djawadi can compose, I could listen to that ending theme all day. -I do agree that the Bran as the King felt odd. They should have spent a couple of episodes kind of reversing his 3ER arc after the Night King died. Bring back Bran the person, maybe have him talk about Hodor, Summer and the Reeds a bit. He has connected with the viewers since the ToJ scene. -Tyrion finally executing cleverness again. He got Jon to understand the consequences of him not taking action -Drogon. I got chills at him destroying the series MacGuffin. I’m glad he made it out alive, I always thought the end of the series would have killed off the mystical creatures, glad I was wrong. -Every episode was beautiful this season, especially this one. Daenerys looked like Malificient with her wings. Snow and ash everywhere.
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belle
Silverwing
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Post by belle on May 21, 2019 20:35:07 GMT -5
Finally watched it. The whole episode turned to pure shit after Dany died. Her scenes were the only good thing about it
3/10
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