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Post by moiaf on Jul 18, 2016 10:02:39 GMT -5
I may be too close-minded about this, but personally I think the "song" in "A Song of Ice and Fire" is only a more poetic way of saying "story". GRRM used "song" very often when naming his stories. For example, there's a short story of his called "A Song of Lya", where the word has no special significance; it's a tale about the fate of a woman named Lya. Similarly, Songs the Dead Men Sing isn't about a choir of zombies. You are most likely right, I was just speculated that if there were we probably wouldn't hear it till the end. Anyhow, what we are seeing right now IS the song, as we are being told this story. Just a quick correction it's Robert Frost. And completely agree with you, this story is really the story of the human condition, how people act under duress, pressure, pain, happiness. We get to see them all. GRRM also says that the Game of Thrones is a distraction from the real war up north and so in the end is the battle between life and death, because that is what the battle with the Others will be. Exactly this. There might be a little of the other element in each on of them but the are clearly Ice and Fire. The show runners refer to them in this way all the time. This is a great point and you can add to that Dany is also Stomborn, which goes along with her impact on the world around her. I've also wondered if there is anything else to Daenerys' name. There was only one other Daenerys and she seems to be the opposite of this one.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 18, 2016 10:24:59 GMT -5
Loved your long thoughts on this topic lojzelote and I couldn't have said it better myself. I'm always puzzled how so many readers/fans take the author's words literally when so much of his writing is clearly symbolic and figurative. After reading five books, you can't even begin to attribute exact wording to all the clues or you'd just run yourself in circles because of how clever Mr. Martin is at hinting at one thing while meaning entirely another. To me, the "Song" is clearly the saga, the story. Perhaps there's an actual song somewhere in a dusty book that can be attributed to the Ice and Fire theme that as suggested, we may see from Sam's readings in all those ponderous tomes he has to tackle. But I doubt that's the entire meaning of the book series. A song is just one part of an artist's album is how I see it. As for the Jon/Daenerys attributes, I completely agree they are the main "yin and yang" (like my avatar) that represents the whole of the ice and fire equation but not all the parts. The story is where all the bits play into the song that weaves their lives. I do often say Jon is both Ice and Fire but only because of his heritage being both Stark and Targaryen. Personality wise and main attribute wise, he's all Ice.
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Post by katjushka on Jul 18, 2016 16:10:26 GMT -5
This is pretty awesome, the songs of ice and fire put together and it fits beautifully.
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Post by Lichabod on Sept 14, 2016 0:41:19 GMT -5
Robert Burns' famous poem "Fire and Ice" Just a quick correction it's Robert Frost. If ice can burn... lojzelote, (and others) I must agree with what you had to say about the "song" and about Jon and Dany. Those two are major representatives of ice and fire, but the Song includes everyone across the board.
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Post by khaella on Sept 14, 2016 8:02:15 GMT -5
Balerion's Whiskers, I was listening to The Princess and the Queen the other day while I was painting. One of the first lines of the story had made me think of what you said earlier in this post about how there may be, or eventually be a song. They say something along the lines that the name, the Dance of the Dragons, is a more "flowery" way to talk about the Targaryen civil war. A Song of Ice and Fire may be the same thing, a "flowery" way to describe the coming carnage.
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Post by Balerion's Whiskers on Sept 14, 2016 13:49:29 GMT -5
The characters keep saying that events in the books should be a song or that singers will sing of... (whatever is happening at the moment)...It just makes sense that at the conclusion of the story that we're given a song....and GRRM has often said in his books that the songs are usually nothing like what really happened. Tolkien gave us many songs...GRRM has given us snippets of a few, but nothing concrete. I'd love to read 'Jenny's Song'...betting that Rhaegar sung it for the dwarf lady...If we're not given the lyrics of an actual song, someone should write one and Ramin Djawadi should set it to music.
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Post by khaella on Sept 15, 2016 10:27:16 GMT -5
I would also love to hear Jenny's Song. Didn't Rhaegar write it for the Ghost of High Heart, or am I thinking of something else?
A lot of characters do talk about songs. A few even say "no songs will be written about this", whatever menial task that they are doing. I just read that in one of Jaime's chapters in AFFC. I think Strongboar says that when he is on his way back to fight outlaws after the siege of Riverrun.
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Post by Balerion's Whiskers on Sept 15, 2016 11:56:47 GMT -5
Didn't Rhaegar write it for the Ghost of High Heart, or am I thinking of something else? People often say that Rhaegar wrote it, but it doesn't state it in the books anywhere that he had a hand in composing it, so it isn't canon. I've seen that theory several places,(and suspect it might be true) but we can't count it as factual. Just like Jojen's eyes turning green after he almost dies as a child....it is taken as truth, but the text never says that's what happens. His eyes are described as green as moss, but the text never supports that they changed after his birth. I believe he was born with his green eyes. Rhaegar was born out of the disaster at Summerhall, so he didn't witness the events. He returns there and composes songs...I'm betting that the little dwarf lady has turned up there as well, but GRRM hasn't told us so. The singers seem to know Jenny's Song, so it must be a tune that many people in the 7 Kingdoms are familiar with.
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khaella
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Post by khaella on Sept 15, 2016 12:30:58 GMT -5
I swear it was said somewhere that he hung out with the GoHH whenever he went to Summerhall. But, you are probably right and I just read it somewhere else. Too much ASOIAF on the brain!
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Sept 18, 2016 9:40:20 GMT -5
There is nothing "fire" about Jon though, except who his biological father was. He's ice through and through. Except for the fire he threw at the wight who came to kill Commander Mormont. I just re-read that section and noticed that afterward Jon describes to himself the sensation of fire against his skin. He marvels that, at the time, he did not feel the fire in his hand. It was only after he noticed his hand was burnt.
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Post by grapefruiperrier on Dec 31, 2016 5:58:20 GMT -5
So folks here see them as the final pair to win and rule? It would be too much for HBO, but I love Jon and Sansa getting together.
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Dec 31, 2016 11:34:35 GMT -5
I don't think most of us think that. The possibility for one or both to die is very much present. I personally believe that yes Dany and Jon will be together. Whether they survive to the end or not is a totally different question.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Jan 7, 2017 21:28:56 GMT -5
I swear it was said somewhere that he hung out with the GoHH whenever he went to Summerhall. But, you are probably right and I just read it somewhere else. Too much ASOIAF on the brain! Jenny's Song. It's the payment for her visions, the Ghost requests the song, and later tells Arya to essentially go away "Dark Heart" she has enough grief from Summerhall where Jenny died. Later Robb Stark when at the Grave of Tristifer which is at Oldstones, mention there is a song "Jenny of Oldstones, with Flowers in her hair." "High in the halls of the kings who are gone, Jenny would dance with her ghosts" Another hall of kings who are gone.
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charliexcx
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Post by charliexcx on Jun 6, 2018 17:37:56 GMT -5
This is a great topic because it has many meanings and does not refer to one person. I do believe the main main thing this title refers to is the R'hllor vs. The Others. Dragons vs. WW,
I can't remember what chapter it was but I'm pretty sure it was after she came out of the HOTU Dany asked Jorah what is The Song of Ice & Fire. Jorah said he never heard of it and most songs in this world are told about epic battles. Well.......
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Post by charliexcx on Jun 7, 2018 1:32:00 GMT -5
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