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Post by konradsmith on Jan 26, 2017 23:49:19 GMT -5
This is why he should have aged up the characters from the start, he likely wouldn't have attempted the 5-year gap idea after ASoS, and maybe would have been well into ADoS by now. I think it's more that he made the story way too big and impossible to wrap up quickly without ever doing much planning for his second act. Anyhow though. I don't care too much about TWOW anymore. But I sympathize with those that are still holding out hope it'll come out. For me now though ep. 610 is the definitive TWOW.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 23:51:18 GMT -5
This is why he should have aged up the characters from the start, he likely wouldn't have attempted the 5-year gap idea after ASoS, and maybe would have been well into ADoS by now. The biggest problem was too much world building and too many new POV characters. I wish he would have stayed with just the AGoT POV's. He could have been done by now. We still could have got great character arcs for the likes of Jaime or Theon for example. Just look at Sandor.
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alcasinoroyale
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Jan 27, 2017 0:00:34 GMT -5
This is why he should have aged up the characters from the start, he likely wouldn't have attempted the 5-year gap idea after ASoS, and maybe would have been well into ADoS by now. The biggest problem was too much world building and too many new POV characters. I wish he would have stayed with just the AGoT POV's. He could have been done by now. We still could have got great character arcs for the likes of Jaime or Theon for example. Just look at Sandor. Yeah, that's true. But I think once he killed off Ned and then Cat later on, there was room for another one or two POV's to at least narrate the story in a different part of the world so I could understand his decision there, but yeah expanding overwhelmingly into Dorne, the Ironborn, and Slaver's Bay was definitely too much.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jan 27, 2017 6:28:03 GMT -5
My personal theory/suspicion is that once he let the cat out of the bag on how the various character's stories end to Dan and Dave, he'd painted himself into a corner trying to make all the pieces line up for the book after the show took over. Now he's created a whole different kind of knot he's got to unravel and make sense of while still fitting things together the way he originally planned it all to go in the first place. I could be way wrong on that and he's just procrastinating or losing creative steam - but the show's popularity has definitely added some pressure to a writer who was already very slow at writing his books before the show started. Six years between AFFC and ADWD is the mantra I keep repeating.
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Post by moiaf on Jan 27, 2017 8:38:28 GMT -5
I think it's a combination of two things, the world has gotten too big and he's lost interest in the story. He likes the peripheral stuff, Dunk and Egg, the Princess and the Queen, etc, but he's been telling the ASOIAF tale for almost twenty years and he might just be over it. He knows how it ends but he's having a hard time getting motivated enough to close all the loose ends he's created for himself.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Jan 27, 2017 10:27:46 GMT -5
This may not be the case, but I feel like I should point something out as a writer and editor. Novels take a long time to create, sometimes several years, especially if you have to research. GRRM has to go back through his books and notes, trying to keep everything straight, including lore, what characters are doing, backgrounds and voices. When you cycle chapters with different character voices, it can be jarring. You have to try and make sure that the voices don't run together. He now has a huge world to keep track of with a history fleshed out enough that books can be sold on it.
That sort of meticulous work takes a lot of time and is all consuming. Eventually, you need a bit of a breather or time to recharge yourself (if that is what he's doing). It's not uncommon for authors to take over 10 years to complete a novel. The more the readers try to push him to finish, the less he will want to.
I don't think there is really any need to worry about when he completes it. He's always had a mentality of "it will be done when it is done". There is no real deadline. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it will be finished this year, probably by the end of the year.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jan 27, 2017 10:59:32 GMT -5
I agree GRRM seems to have lost interest in the finishing of ASOIAF. Now that the show is doing the work for him, this story has lost its mystery. I can understand it, but he had to know this would happen from the moment they approached him about doing the series. The only story I would like to hear in full, at this moment, is this one. So unless we get "The Tourney at Harrenhall", or "The Abduction of Lyanna Stark", I doubt I will spend the money for an actual book. E-book probably but I'm still gonna pout under we get 'Winds' and 'Dream'.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Jan 27, 2017 15:03:59 GMT -5
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Post by breakfest on Jan 27, 2017 15:25:14 GMT -5
Jesus that bloke needs to stop theorising about when the book's coming out. Can't be good for his sanity.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Jan 28, 2017 1:07:58 GMT -5
I think it's a combination of two things, the world has gotten too big and he's lost interest in the story. He likes the peripheral stuff, Dunk and Egg, the Princess and the Queen, etc, but he's been telling the ASOIAF tale for almost twenty years and he might just be over it. He knows how it ends but he's having a hard time getting motivated enough to close all the loose ends he's created for himself. He's always been fond of the quote "The tale grew in the telling." Bet he's not so fond of it anymore. Not only do I agree that he lost interest, but I think he has spent years full on avoiding it at all cost. You know "Boy I should really get to writing but oh my their is a Smurf Con in Pasadena, can't miss that." He burnt himself out on Crows and Dance and does not want t go back. If he wanted to write it, it would be done even at 80k words. Part of the reason I think he created new POV's is because he got tired of writing about most of them. Except Targ history, he seems to still like that. I think Jon fans are going to be disappointed with Winds frankly. I don't think we get a lot of them. He has to clear the table before he can reset it for the next book. The setup does not fit having a lot of them, I think they will be in it but it will be more like Bran in Dance though who knows. Jon Con and the Aegon Arc are going to waste time, Euron, Arianne Martell, Dorne and Darkstar (uggg, can the mind vomit?). I think Arya, Sansa, Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion get plenty, and I think plenty of characters get wasted though it will take time. Davos is off on his little mission, Asha and Stannis. It's nothing against Jon, and the books could follow the show and Stannis gets rolled by 20 good men but that seem unlikely and very abrupt for Martin. I don't see Ram killing Rickon either, book Rickon knows the serpentine pattern and is also in a totally different place. I don't Dance was a bit of a mess in terms of setting the table it felt like it was way behind. You could sort of see where it was heading and it did not feel very close.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Jan 28, 2017 2:12:34 GMT -5
He's been avoiding confirming when he thinks it will be released, but I think it helped that he stopped going to some conventions and let some of the other projects sit to the side. I actually believe him this time when he says it will likely be out this year. It's not uncommon for novels to take several years, especially large ones. I think Les Miserable took 17 years to finish. I have seen authors take 8 years to finish their first novels, research slowing down the process. It's not easy to churn something out, especially a large text.
I really don't think he's gotten bored or lost interest. I think he just can't keep the pace that everyone expects or demands him to. He does have a life outside of ASOIAF and he can't always be chained to his desk. There are other things that happen that can slow down the writing process. Sometimes there is writer's block, several, several drafts have to be submitted and gone through with a fine tooth comb, compiling and checking/rechecking research. I don't find it strange that this book has been taking so long. He probably took a short break between ADOD and TWoW, just to recharge.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 3:10:08 GMT -5
Oh please, this isn't some standalone novel he's taking his time with. It's a series. And he owes the fans that plunked their hard earned money down to read his books an ending. 20+ years is ridiculous. I'm sorry, it just is. I wonder how the people that make excuses for him would feel if we end up with a Robert Jordan situation. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, but I also have lost hope of getting the final book any time soon. I assume Winds being the penultimate book (supposedly) has been the hardest for him, but I seriously doubt he'll pump out ADoS in a timely manner either.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Jan 28, 2017 6:34:43 GMT -5
He "owes" his fans a decent story and that requires work and research. If he churns it out quickly with speed that some seem to think he should have, then there will be plot holes and inconsistencies, as well as a narrative lacking in the same quality that he has offered us before. Series take longer than stand alone novels, especially those with immersive worlds. He's got history to maintain, various characters that he is introducing as well as those that come in and out of the novel, different character voices for each chapter. This isn't like Dunk and Egg where it's a standalone. Those he can finish quickly because it's one book. A series takes work. These novels not only have to stand on their own as individual stories, but also as a narrative whole.
The idea of him "owing" people something is really demeaning. There's a reason he gets angry when fans insinuate that he should just always be writing the book. He has a life, family, his health, and so much else to think about on a day to day basis. The fact that he canceled all appearances and cons (which were something he actually enjoyed doing) shows that he is trying to meet the demand of his readers.
It's a bit insulting to him that the subject of his death is brought up so often with these books. Since I seem to fall into the people "making excuses" for him, I'll tell you honestly that I don't care if Robert Jordan finishes the books. At least Robert Jordan will know what GRRM wanted and finish the books for us. It's not the end of the world to me and I'm saying this as a fan of the series. What I want is for GRRM to enjoy the process of writing the books and not feel like he is being taken for granted by the fans, which is how it seems when people start complaining about him going to conventions or doing side projects, such as writing for the show or writing novellas.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 6:46:44 GMT -5
Nobody is saying he should be chained to his computer not having a life. That's a strawman. But to take 20+ years to finish a fantasy story is absolutely ridiculous. Funnily enough, most would agree his best work (ASoS) was "churned out quickly." And the books he's taken his sweet ass time with were much less well received.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 6:51:14 GMT -5
Anyway this is off topic. Thankfully we have the show to actually give us an ending soon enough.
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