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Post by Envie on Jul 13, 2017 18:46:25 GMT -5
This sounds crazy, but do you think LSH will be relevant to the Great War? You know, since GRRM stated LSH is the first character he missed from the show and said that she will be important to the story. I can't imagine Jon and LSH allying themselves against the Others. I think a lot of fans have speculated about that over the years. What is the important role LSH plays in the endgame that the writers of the show decided wasn't important enough to include on the show? Does she pass her 'life' aura on to someone else? Does she somehow help Jon? Is she instrumental in facing off with the Night King because she's undead? We may not know these answers until both the show series and book series are finally finished so we can compare!
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Jul 13, 2017 18:55:09 GMT -5
This kinda support the theory that some fans believe that resurrection was done purely by magic and that fire is mostly the source of it that links both the Red God's magic and Dany's dragons. Additionally, If cold is what signalize death, then fire is what brings life. The warmth within our body shows the sign that we are living. So, I'm assuming that Jon's body is now like Beric and this foreshadow his fate. Like Beric, Jon's body is not working as his blood is cold and frozen, but he was resurrected by fire that allows him to live as a conscious wright and work as an engine to his body. If he was resurrected by magic, then when the magic is to be gone from the world, then Jon will return back to the dead as ashes. This kind of scares me because it might not bode well for Jon. If he turns into the same thing that Berric is, I don't think he'll survive the series.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 13, 2017 18:59:36 GMT -5
This kind of scares me because it might not bode well for Jon. If he turns into the same thing that Berric is, I don't think he'll survive the series. Yep, this could really be a game-changer in the theory-crafting about Jon. If he's essentially the same as Beric, then he's slowly draining vitality and is something similar to Benjen or Coldhands etc. He very specifically told Melisandre not to bring him back so I don't see Jon being like Beric at all that way... no return from the dead numerous times. But what life he has left in him may not last.
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Post by moiaf on Jul 13, 2017 19:02:45 GMT -5
This kind of scares me because it might not bode well for Jon. If he turns into the same thing that Berric is, I don't think he'll survive the series. Yep, this could really be a game-changer in the theory-crafting about Jon. If he's essentially the same as Beric, then he's slowly draining vitality and is something similar to Benjen or Coldhands etc. He very specifically told Melisandre not to bring him back so I don't see Jon being like Beric at all that way... no return from the dead numerous times. But what life he has left in him may not last. Yeah, I don't think he's going to be brought back multiple times but as you say, this life he currently has might not last. I'm probably being ridiculously optimistic or hopeful but maybe Dany could use the same fire and blood magic to bring him back for real. I think whatever magic Dany tapped into is the real deal. While the Red Priest are more illusion based.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Jul 13, 2017 19:14:48 GMT -5
Yep, this could really be a game-changer in the theory-crafting about Jon. If he's essentially the same as Beric, then he's slowly draining vitality and is something similar to Benjen or Coldhands etc. He very specifically told Melisandre not to bring him back so I don't see Jon being like Beric at all that way... no return from the dead numerous times. But what life he has left in him may not last. Yeah, I don't think he's going to be brought back multiple times but as you say, this life he currently has might not last. I'm probably being ridiculously optimistic or hopeful but maybe Dany could use the same fire and blood magic to bring him back for real. I think whatever magic Dany tapped into is the real deal. While the Red Priest are more illusion based. Dany's magic is definitely much different but I get confused when I try to sort it out. She used what I considered 'blood magic' to bring her dragons to life in the funeral pyre, but then she herself survived that fire as well as the one at the Vaes Dothrak temple. Was the Temple fire another piece of 'blood magic' because she killed the Khals inside? Beric and Jon weren't resurrected by fire but by 'praying' to R'hllor. So yeah, it's all kinda confusing and not obvious in parallel in any way. I don't see them as very similar or opposite either one. I just don't know.
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Post by TheArchmaester on Jul 13, 2017 19:15:38 GMT -5
This kind of scares me because it might not bode well for Jon. If he turns into the same thing that Berric is, I don't think he'll survive the series. Yep, this could really be a game-changer in the theory-crafting about Jon. If he's essentially the same as Beric, then he's slowly draining vitality and is something similar to Benjen or Coldhands etc. He very specifically told Melisandre not to bring him back so I don't see Jon being like Beric at all that way... no return from the dead numerous times. But what life he has left in him may not last. I think GRRM will use the warging trick to set Jon apart from Beric and LSH. His soul will flee to Ghost, therefore he will never be truly dead. So he won't be a "fire wight". That's my guess, anyway. Personally, I hate that theory (though it is what I expect to happen in the book) since it's really awkward and needlessly complicated. That's why I think the show deleted the warging aspect and had Jon truly die. They also seem to have deleted the "fire wight" business. Jon remains 100% human and normal as far as we can tell. As to the deletion of LSH, I'm beginning to think she will truly be important in the novels and GRRM isn't lying about it. Beric being a significant figure in seasons 7 and 8 is odd as hell and seems to point to this.
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 13, 2017 19:44:01 GMT -5
Yep, this could really be a game-changer in the theory-crafting about Jon. If he's essentially the same as Beric, then he's slowly draining vitality and is something similar to Benjen or Coldhands etc. He very specifically told Melisandre not to bring him back so I don't see Jon being like Beric at all that way... no return from the dead numerous times. But what life he has left in him may not last. Yeah, I don't think he's going to be brought back multiple times but as you say, this life he currently has might not last. I'm probably being ridiculously optimistic or hopeful but maybe Dany could use the same fire and blood magic to bring him back for real. I think whatever magic Dany tapped into is the real deal. While the Red Priest are more illusion based. It's pretty clear Jon doesn't want to come to back to life. He never consent to it as Mel resurrected him without his permission. I know it will be heartbreaking for Jon to not survive at the end of the series, but regarding the death and resurrection theme that the series has been telling, it makes sense why Jon would have a stay dead after the magic depart. Essentially "what is dead must stays dead." Every life has their ending and that definitely includes people's life. It is best for people to stay dead when they were aware of their identity before death instead of coming back to life as a different person (i know this is quite clear in the book, but it's sketchy for Jon in the show). I mean, look at LSH. If Jon is going to come back to life again, he will be a different person again regardless what type of magic it would be used and i think Jon does not want that either.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 13, 2017 20:30:26 GMT -5
As to the deletion of LSH, I'm beginning to think she will truly be important in the novels and GRRM isn't lying about it. Beric being a significant figure in seasons 7 and 8 is odd as hell and seems to point to this. My theory for what it's worth, is the Lady Stoneheart will give her last life to save one of the main cast. Personally I want it to be Jon, as atonement for her treatment of him, which we now know was totally unwarranted. That must be why Beric is still around. He will give his last life to save Jon one last time
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Post by TheArchmaester on Jul 13, 2017 20:48:45 GMT -5
As to the deletion of LSH, I'm beginning to think she will truly be important in the novels and GRRM isn't lying about it. Beric being a significant figure in seasons 7 and 8 is odd as hell and seems to point to this. My theory for what it's worth, is the Lady Stoneheart will give her last life to save one of the main cast. Personally I want it to be Jon, as atonement for her treatment of him, which we now know was totally unwarranted. That must be why Beric is still around. He will give his last life to save Jon one last time Could be. Personally I hope she gives the kiss of life to Arya. Both Catelyn and Arya would finally be saying goodbye to death in favor of life. (Death, grief and revenge have been central themes in BOTH their arcs and this would provide closure for the two of them.)
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Post by King Tommen on Jul 13, 2017 21:43:53 GMT -5
We should all remember that George says every one of his goddamn characters is important, even the ones who aren't at all (like Garlan Tyrell or Mago). His version of "plays a big role" could be something he feels his very relevant but is overall easily skippable or given to another character to do.
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katjushka
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Post by katjushka on Jul 14, 2017 0:59:14 GMT -5
We should all remember that George says every one of his goddamn characters is important, even the ones who aren't at all (like Garlan Tyrell or Mago). His version of "plays a big role" could be something he feels his very relevant but is overall easily skippable or given to another character to do. This is very true. But on the other hand, Beric still being around also tells something so I do actually think that there is something quite significant left for him/her to do after getting revenge at the Riverlands. The symbolism of LSH giving life to Jon would be strong but personally I will feel horrible if Jon goes the Beric route and is resurrected multiple times, I think for him it needs to be a one time thing. Also I find it hard to believe that the writers of the show would have just skipped that symbolism and changed LSH to Beric.
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belle
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Post by belle on Jul 14, 2017 1:02:21 GMT -5
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Post by Basil on Jul 14, 2017 1:43:54 GMT -5
Catelyn is an important character in her own right, and LSH is a continuation of her story. So even if she ends up not being important to the endgame, I don't see how that's a valid argument for not including her in the show, If we only cared about the characters that are still alive at the end, you could probably skip the first three books altogether, because what's the point.
I don't watch a show like this to find out what happens at the end, I watch it because of the characters and their individual journeys, and Catelyn's journey was ended prematurely ... which is something that I'll probably never get over.
I think they brought Beric back because without UnCat, the Brotherhood Without Banners was a loose end they wanted to tie up. He is also what qualifies as a cool character, and D&D like cool characters. I highly doubt whatever role he plays in Season 7 and 8 will be even remotely comparable to Lady Stoneheart's role in the books.
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TheMadQueen
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jul 14, 2017 11:37:51 GMT -5
No LSH was and always will be utter bullshit. I am still pretty salty about that one. You guys know I was every other post in those hype threads. I was so excited, and that's probably my biggest disappointment with the show.
But Beric and his flaming sword are cool, too. That's life ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 11:40:35 GMT -5
Guys we're so far past that let's please not go down that road again.
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