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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 22:21:44 GMT -5
That's the only logical end to her story.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 2, 2017 22:42:36 GMT -5
From the article.
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 3, 2017 16:24:16 GMT -5
Once she's face to face with her daughters killed, she does break down, if only for a second. "Why did you do that?!" she snarls, almost frantically, like she's been waiting to say it for quite some time. This was my favorite moment of that scene and Lena fucking killed it. I got a lump in my throat right then. At that moment, she showed Ellaria her weakness, her inner emotions, because she doesn't need to hide anything from someone she's going to kill anyways. I think this was also where Ellaria's reaction kicked it up a notch because she suddenly realizes the one thing she and Cersei share is fierce love for her children. One Mother accusing another Mother of being a murderer and taking away the child she loved is absolutely gut-wrenching and I felt pain for both of them. It reminded me of Joff actually. The disconnect he shares with his mother. Whenever he would get upset he would ask questions with obvious answers. She shares his hypocricy and sense of cruelty and morality. The way scene plays I wonder if she is seeking vengence for her pain more than death of her daughter, when she talks about it it's all about her really. I know she cared for her but she also treated her kids like objects, possessions that were hers and hers alone. If the object stops being hers she disconnects from it, like Tommen and she always fought to control them and manipulate them for her own desires for power. Same with Jamie, she belongs to her, don't try to take him or down the well you go. Does his happiness matter? Not really as long as she gets what she wants.
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 3, 2017 16:50:28 GMT -5
That's the only logical end to her story. Mel is such a sad story, and yet in the end she served the purpose felt she was born to serve. A child branded and sold into slavery. Devotes her life to the lord of light, to the point she becomes fanatical. Her faith drives her to believe in Stannis, she wanted that to be real so badly that she was willing to sarifice a child. In a story that has no happy ending. She thought she was helping to save the world but forgot what it is to be human, that life matters. Yet et if she had not done all that she would never have met Jon who she saved. At that moment her journey changes, she is sent away and who does she meet. The women who wakes dragons from stone. And she gives her a simple message to send for Jon Snow and listen to him. Once she stopped trying to make fate happen, it happened. With Stannis she was trapped within a prophecy she thought she could control and create, but he was no More the Dragon that was promised than his sword was Lightbringer. Only by being wrong could she be right. All she really wanted was to help, and her story became twisted. Now after waiting for years and years she can finally live out her wish and sacrifice herself. And Dany ends up running into the same problem she did in slavers bay, before she can go forward she has to deal with the monsters. its always bittersweet and I would say Mel is a great example of that.
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 3, 2017 17:12:34 GMT -5
This was my favorite moment of that scene and Lena fucking killed it. I got a lump in my throat right then. At that moment, she showed Ellaria her weakness, her inner emotions, because she doesn't need to hide anything from someone she's going to kill anyways. I think this was also where Ellaria's reaction kicked it up a notch because she suddenly realizes the one thing she and Cersei share is fierce love for her children. One Mother accusing another Mother of being a murderer and taking away the child she loved is absolutely gut-wrenching and I felt pain for both of them. It reminded me of Joff actually. The disconnect he shares with his mother. Whenever he would get upset he would ask questions with obvious answers. She shares his hypocricy and sense of cruelty and morality. The way scene plays I wonder if she is seeking vengence for her pain more than death of her daughter, when she talks about it it's all about her really. I know she cared for her but she also treated her kids like objects, possessions that were hers and hers alone. If the object stops being hers she disconnects from it, like Tommen and she always fought to control them and manipulate them for her own desires for power. Same with Jamie, she belongs to her, don't try to take him or down the well you go. Does his happiness matter? Not really as long as she gets what she wants. I disagree on some of what you said, agree with other bits. While it's true she does treat people as possessions and tools to get what she wants, and did so most notably with Tommen, I think Cersei really truly loved her children. They were probably the only humanizing thing Cersei's ever done or had. Dan and Dave commented on this in the 6x10 "Inside the Episode" segment - you should go back and watch it because it's the interpretation they gave for Cersei. They remarked how Cersei has now lost the only pieces of her that humanized her and that without her children she is a woman with nothing to lose and very dangerous. We are seeing that now. Her love for Jaime is consuming and possessive, of that I have no doubt. But it was her children that grounded her in reality and kept her feeling some emotions. If you noticed how she spoke to Ellaria, it was not from one enemy to another, but from one angry vengeful Mother to another. I am quite sure that is what they were going for and gave Cersei that little touch of coming unglued and showing Ellaria some emotion before she stormed out to leave them to their fate. Cersei is not a copy of Joffrey. Joffrey was a corrupted, twisted offshoot of his Mother and something worse, his hatred for everything not worthy that even included his Mother.
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 3, 2017 17:56:51 GMT -5
It reminded me of Joff actually. The disconnect he shares with his mother. Whenever he would get upset he would ask questions with obvious answers. She shares his hypocricy and sense of cruelty and morality. The way scene plays I wonder if she is seeking vengence for her pain more than death of her daughter, when she talks about it it's all about her really. I know she cared for her but she also treated her kids like objects, possessions that were hers and hers alone. If the object stops being hers she disconnects from it, like Tommen and she always fought to control them and manipulate them for her own desires for power. Same with Jamie, she belongs to her, don't try to take him or down the well you go. Does his happiness matter? Not really as long as she gets what she wants. I disagree on some of what you said, agree with other bits. While it's true she does treat people as possessions and tools to get what she wants, and did so most notably with Tommen, I think Cersei really truly loved her children. They were probably the only humanizing thing Cersei's ever done or had. Dan and Dave commented on this in the 6x10 "Inside the Episode" segment - you should go back and watch it because it's the interpretation they gave for Cersei. They remarked how Cersei has now lost the only pieces of her that humanized her and that without her children she is a woman with nothing to lose and very dangerous. We are seeing that now. Her love for Jaime is consuming and possessive, of that I have no doubt. But it was her children that grounded her in reality and kept her feeling some emotions. If you noticed how she spoke to Ellaria, it was not from one enemy to another, but from one angry vengeful Mother to another. I am quite sure that is what they were going for and gave Cersei that little touch of coming unglued and showing Ellaria some emotion before she stormed out to leave them to their fate. Cersei is not a copy of Joffrey. Joffrey was a corrupted, twisted offshoot of his Mother and something worse, his hatred for everything not worthy that even included his Mother. There are different levels of humanity though and as she devolved so did her connection to her children and thus her humanity. There is a change in her after Tommen, she degenerates through the series. So what's left at this point. Ellaria is not a vengeful mother, but vengeful lover. And now she has lost a child. I am not sure how grounded she has ever been. Scheming and plotting all while her children are alive. At times I think the character makes attempts at humanity. What she did to Ellaria is reckoning she is setteling the account an eye for an eye. I know they attempt to humanize her but she blew up a church full of people with a smile on her face, and exploded sexually after killing Ellaria's daughter. I think at times the show tries to humanize her, from early one she was cruel, like Roberts bastards which includes the murder of a baby. Her manipulation goes back to her childhood as well as her cruelty. She he cried because loved them? Maybe, but were they children or objects. She openly says it about Joff and Tommen, that she is trying to control them. I think D&D try to play that up sometimes but they also ignore parts of her story when doing that. There is a Stark contrast to her and Dany if we are speaking of mothers who love and are grounded by their children. Dany has no children of her own, yet sacrifices herself for her adopted children, the freed slaves. She tries to raise them up and give them a better life, protects them, I can't speak as a parent, but I know what my mother sacrificed, and what Dany has sacrificed. Cersei tends to say she sacrifices, but that is not true she takes, it tends to always be about her, and her feelings, and what she wants. When she doesn't get it she no longer cares. When Tommen didn't giver what she wanted, when she could no longer control and manipulate him, she destroyed who took Tommen from her, and "he betrayed me" He didn't betray her, she just didn't get what she wanted and thus had no use for him. I feel it's a bit of a mixed message. She cares, and is humanized but destroys anything that gets in the way of what she wants including her own child.
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Post by belle on Aug 3, 2017 17:57:33 GMT -5
its interesting that carice was asked to audition for cersei. i wonder how she would have been like in that role. i admit its really hard for me to imagine carice as cersei instead of lena
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Post by Singer of Death on Aug 3, 2017 18:04:40 GMT -5
its interesting that carice was asked to audition for cersei. i wonder how she would have been like in that role. i admit its really hard for me to imagine carice as cersei instead of lena It's hard to imagine any cast playing a different role at this point due to how talented they played their character. Cannot envision Conleth as Robert Baratheon or Iwan Rheon as Jon.
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Post by belle on Aug 3, 2017 18:23:21 GMT -5
its interesting that carice was asked to audition for cersei. i wonder how she would have been like in that role. i admit its really hard for me to imagine carice as cersei instead of lena It's hard to imagine any cast playing a different role at this point due to how talented they played their character. Cannot envision Conleth as Robert Baratheon or Iwan Rheon as Jon. well conleth doesn't have the right look for bob imo and iwan rheon doesn't have the right look for jon. but carice does have the right look for cersei imo even though her eyes are blue af lol. i know lena also auditioned for catelyn, can easily imagine lena in that role tbh.
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Post by Envie on Aug 3, 2017 18:25:19 GMT -5
well conleth doesn't have the right look for bob imo Have you seen him with all his hair? I think he would have made a good Robert but I'm glad they chose him for Varys instead - he's awesome!
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Post by Singer of Death on Aug 3, 2017 19:51:01 GMT -5
It's hard to imagine any cast playing a different role at this point due to how talented they played their character. Cannot envision Conleth as Robert Baratheon or Iwan Rheon as Jon. well conleth doesn't have the right look for bob imo and iwan rheon doesn't have the right look for jon. but carice does have the right look for cersei imo even though her eyes are blue af lol. i know lena also auditioned for catelyn, can easily imagine lena in that role tbh. I don't think the looks even matter. Most of the cast don't particularly resemble their book counterpart that much anyway with a few exceptions. What's more important is how well they can play the character. Regading Lena, she caught me off guard seeing her as Cersei when i first watched GoT. I mean, she was freakin Queen Gorgo for crying out loud. So i'm not surprised when i learned that Lena auditioned for Cat as she usually played the positive matriarch character.
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Post by izzue on Aug 3, 2017 22:18:00 GMT -5
Once she's face to face with her daughters killed, she does break down, if only for a second. "Why did you do that?!" she snarls, almost frantically, like she's been waiting to say it for quite some time. However, she regains her composure, shoving that pain back down, and resumes getting violent revenge. Getting to this point late, but wanted to say that Cersei's "Why did you do that?" to Ellaria reminds me of Catelyn's asking Jaime the same question, after he admitted he'd thrown Bran out of the tower. I will never forget the look on her face when she asked Jaime, "Why?", with a world of expression put into that one word.
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Post by izzue on Aug 3, 2017 22:48:20 GMT -5
I just now found notes I'd jotted down at 3rd re-watch. Unfortunately, they're kind of scribbled, so I'm not positive, but I believe the words "And so it begins" were spoken by Olenna when Jaime came into her tower room, a callback, of course, to Ser Arthur Dayne's words to young Ned at the TOJ.
A minor point, granted, but doesn't Bronn ever intend to put on some armor before going into battle? It would spoil his 'style', I know, but ... I'm thinking one must make concessions in order to stay alive.
One other random thought - Mel tells Varys she's leaving but will come back because she has to die in Westeros. She's supposed to meet Arya again - wonder if that's just something that has been forgotten?
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Post by archanabrownwalker on Aug 3, 2017 23:39:02 GMT -5
Have you seen him with all his hair? I think he would have made a good Robert but I'm glad they chose him for Varys instead - he's awesome! The only problem with Mark Addy's casting as Robert is that he is not tall enough. Robert is supposed to be a hulking, imposing brute who made Ned look diminutive. Whereas Addy actually looks slightly shorter than Bean or maybe they are approximately the same height. Apart from that, Addy was perfect as Robert with a grungy voice and rustic yet bloated appearance. The same problem would be there is Hill was cast as Robert and furthermore Hill does not have suitable voice. I think Varys could not be better cast than Hill.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 4, 2017 14:37:01 GMT -5
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