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Post by ladystoneboobs on Aug 16, 2017 18:31:36 GMT -5
I haven't seen ep. 6 but judging from ep. 5... I just don't get why Arya can't at least give Sansa a chance. There's more to Arya than contained rage and violence. She can be a great listener, as the scene with Lady Crane showed in 608. She simply sat there and listened to the woman's story. She didn't just judge her from the onset. Then there's the scene with the Lannister soldiers, where she actively decided to give them a chance and hear them out. But then suddenly she arrives home and her basic humanity and understanding of human nature takes a nosedive. I get what they're trying to do but it seems to me they took it way too far for it to feel genuine. they took it far to make littlefinger still look powerful. that asshole is the only character being propped here. all arya had to do was ask why sansa had him hiding the letter and it'd be over right then. the fucker could have been killed in 6.10 and there would still be stark conflict since they hadn't seen each other in years and never got along before, but they had to have him be the main character death in s7 bc so much of the rest of the season is wheel-spinning for the ultimate conflicts in s8.
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nikma
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Post by nikma on Aug 16, 2017 18:38:01 GMT -5
I think we can understand D&D's motivation, but that doesn't mean that this conflict is something forced. And it will be here for only 2 episodes. It is already over. Next scene is LF's death. But making tensions between them over their past makes sense.
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 16, 2017 18:39:07 GMT -5
I haven't seen ep. 6 but judging from ep. 5... I just don't get why Arya can't at least give Sansa a chance. There's more to Arya than contained rage and violence. She can be a great listener, as the scene with Lady Crane showed in 608. She simply sat there and listened to the woman's story. She didn't just judge her from the onset. Then there's the scene with the Lannister soldiers, where she actively decided to give them a chance and hear them out. But then suddenly she arrives home and her basic humanity and understanding of human nature takes a nosedive. I get what they're trying to do but it seems to me they took it way too far for it to feel genuine. I think their reluctance to hear one another out is what's led to their conflict. But they both know that telling their stories could lead to massive misunderstandings about one another. They're alluding to what they've learned and done and been through to one another but haven't told it in full, which is what I think they've finally done by their last scene together in the finale and that, even more than dealing with LF, is what finally resolves their conflict. The problem is Sansa relating her experience could lead to Arya thinking she's even more compromised. And of course at first Arya didn't want to Sansa to be scared of her (pretending to be joking about the list after Sansa laughed in the crpyt scene in 704 for example) but is now purposefully scaring her because she fears Sansa's intentions. Getting LF out of the way, thereby proving to Arya that she's not compromised, is what lets Arya trust Sansa to hear her side of things. Personally I don't have a problem with the arc because it raises questions we should be asking about how compromised these two have become. While the Nymeria scene and the scene with the soldiers were meant to show Arya's humanity is in tact, she's been a ruthless vigilante/assassin for years now, opened the season collectively punishing a family with mass murder and would've killed those soldiers in a heartbeat. So that tension should be on the fore with her. As with Sansa who's potential corruption is essential to her arc. LF's still around because part of her is considering what he's put on the table. They don't succumb to these impulses but we're supposed to be pretty scared until the very end that they won't. Which is why I didn't mind getting WF screentime (though the first scene of them was too long, I think) because this all needed fleshing out. The finale will still have to pull a ton of weight (which given its screentime, it probably will) in making this end in a satisfying way. But the dynamics that were set up in this episode finally lays groundwork that I was doubtful they'd be able to pull off in just one episode. Now we have a few different scenes set up; Sansa leading LF to think that she has pretext to arrest Arya (I didn't really understand how this would work at first), Sansa having the dagger and thus being able to take it to Bran to ask him more about it and of course the final confrontation. I'll judge it all based on how that plays.
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nikma
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Post by nikma on Aug 16, 2017 18:46:28 GMT -5
I mean Arya could have asked Sansa about why is she hiding the letter, but she already saw Sansa's ambition, so she thinks she knows her motivation - to save her reputation in the eyes of the Northern lords.
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konradsmith
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 16, 2017 18:51:35 GMT -5
Has this been mentioned yet here ? (Pre-emptive apology if it has). I'd heard it mentioned on r/freefolk but only saw it myself on my latest rewatch. It's pretty scary.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Aug 16, 2017 18:57:37 GMT -5
Has this been mentioned yet here ? (Pre-emptive apology if it has). I'd heard it mentioned on r/freefolk but only saw it myself on my latest rewatch. It's pretty scary. Yeah, it was. Conclusion: simple light reflection which change once Jon came up from the water. Probably on purpose, cause they focused camera on it. My opinion: cool, but no need to talk about it more, an obvious metaphor.
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 16, 2017 19:01:31 GMT -5
Has this been mentioned yet here ? (Pre-emptive apology if it has). I'd heard it mentioned on r/freefolk but only saw it myself on my latest rewatch. It's pretty scary. Yeah, it was. Conclusion: simple light reflection which change once Jon came up from the water. Probably on purpose, cause they focused camera on it. My opinion: cool, but no need to talk about it more, an obvious metaphor. Just imagine noticing that for the first time in the editing room. Yeah, you're right it's more likely a happy accident than something intentional or some kindof CGI. And even if Longclaw can light up in s8 at some point and is Valyrian steel, I doubt it has much magic to it beyond that. Still creeped me out though.
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ladystoneboobs
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Aug 16, 2017 19:10:08 GMT -5
check out the redshirt with a spear fighting a wight bee or something.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Aug 16, 2017 19:29:36 GMT -5
Yeah, it was. Conclusion: simple light reflection which change once Jon came up from the water. Probably on purpose, cause they focused camera on it. My opinion: cool, but no need to talk about it more, an obvious metaphor. Just imagine noticing that for the first time in the editing room. Yeah, you're right it's more likely a happy accident than something intentional or some kindof CGI. And even if Longclaw can light up in s8 at some point and is Valyrian steel, I doubt it has much magic to it beyond that. Still creeped me out though. Funny you mentioned noticing sth in editing room, as there are more things they obviously didn't notice. First via FF: Wildling desperately hitting the air. Some glorious comments https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6u1roh/what_the_fuck_is_the_wildling_at_the_back_hitting/ (edit: didn't check and ladystoneboobs already mentioned this) Second via me: such a funny face, like NK smiling when throwing a spear - I admit it looks weirder in smaller size, but it only makes it double hilarious
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 16, 2017 19:52:58 GMT -5
So I saw the whole thing and I think the Arya Sansa stuff is being. Blown up.
So they set up ground work for the basis of Arya's anger.
KL as a child seeing Sansa with the Lannisters while their father is killed. Really the core of her hate.
Her Faceless training, she is reading that Sansa wants the north from Jon and it's not denied. We know this already though for Sansa it's more like she has mixed feelings and she is not plotting.
Littlefinger makes it look like Sansa is plotting to Arya, the hiding of the letter.
The letter itself.
Arya has her own feelings of resentment towards Sansa to begin with, like her friend who was killed, the lie.
We know these two are essentially opposites. That's the emphasis for them here. But that is not the whole story.
Arya was not going to hurt her, but when Sansa sneaks into her room which Arya is expecting, she puts fear into her, she sends a warning about what and who she is.
People are mad at Arya? Arya is who she is, you think Jon hasn't threatened people? Or Dany or many others. It's not Arya and it's not Sansa it's LF and you all know it.
You know go back to season one, go back to the first book, this episode has a theme. Suns and Moons. What did Ned Say? "You may be as different as the sun and the moon, but the same blood flows through your hearts. She needs you as you need her." In order to have the unity of opposition occure you have to have opposites. You need the opposition, and from their the unity and then the change. That's how it works, that's how the series works.
Look do you think Dany was in white for no reason, really the moon of his life? Jon and Dany first meet what did you get? Opposition, they slowly come together, boat scene unity. It's not about bending the knee. What does she say? "Together." By the way those two are amazing in that scene. Also Maisie and Sophie are amazing in there scene as well.
Jon and Dany are a little ahead of Arya and Sansa, but it's a parallel. It's the same basic structure. Uniting against the Night King, uniting against Littlefinger. Different scale same basic structure. Arya is scary person, a trained Assasinwho Just fed Walder two of his sons and killed his entire house. Sansa has been learning from LF, she has political aspirations. Of course they are at odds, he set them up to be at odds. Arya reacts how she was trained to act, and so does Sansa.
Look Arya may be scary and she did scare Sansa, but Sansa is pitching for the wrong team. LF gotta go, and I bet he does.
Episode 5 what did Littlefinger do, he baited Arya, he lured her out and set essentially a type of trap for her. It's a set up, he lured her out and left a trail to the note. Night King did the same thing. He's a seer? A powerful one. He knew Jon was coming. Jon wasn't the target, Jon was the bait. Let him come north of the wall, let him get the Wight then trapped him on that island and waited. You think he had three of those Dragon slayer spears for nothing? What he can't freeze water? Even After it froze the attack came slowly. Till he new she was close. Classic sniper trap and he just waited in his elevated nest. While Drogon was down he took out support. If Jon hadn't figured out Dany would be your new Night Queen. What does LF want? Sansa and the world. Who is most like Jon? Arya. Arya is Faceless and Jon is nameless.
What do Jon and Dany have? What unites them? Love. Same for Arya and Sansa, they me be going at it but love is there. Night King used Jon to draw out Dany, to bring him to her. LF is using Arya to drive Sansa to him. You know f Arya percieves a danger to her house or Jon how is she going to react?
Anyway that's my opinion.
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 16, 2017 19:56:41 GMT -5
Has this been mentioned yet here ? (Pre-emptive apology if it has). I'd heard it mentioned on r/freefolk but only saw it myself on my latest rewatch. It's pretty scary. I know what it is? Sword has to be their so Kit can climb out, when he slams his hand down its soaked with water, some of water splashed on the gems. It looks very cool, great shot.
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Post by Singer of Death on Aug 16, 2017 20:05:39 GMT -5
Has this been mentioned yet here ? (Pre-emptive apology if it has). I'd heard it mentioned on r/freefolk but only saw it myself on my latest rewatch. It's pretty scary. Bran must be warging into Longclaw.
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day dreamer
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 16, 2017 20:13:01 GMT -5
Yeah, it was. Conclusion: simple light reflection which change once Jon came up from the water. Probably on purpose, cause they focused camera on it. My opinion: cool, but no need to talk about it more, an obvious metaphor. Just imagine noticing that for the first time in the editing room. Yeah, you're right it's more likely a happy accident than something intentional or some kindof CGI. And even if Longclaw can light up in s8 at some point and is Valyrian steel, I doubt it has much magic to it beyond that. Still creeped me out though. Longclaw will morph into the book crow that harasses Jon and asks for corn. First comes blinking, then comes talking.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Aug 16, 2017 20:36:26 GMT -5
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 16, 2017 20:57:20 GMT -5
So I saw the whole thing and I think the Arya Sansa stuff is being. Blown up. I agree. I just watched it. I should not have jumped to conclusions before I saw it. I'm woman enough to say that when I've been over the top. I wish some people here would not insult/name-call Arya, however. We're better than that here. As for the episode ... I'm in shock. That was one of the most emotionally devastating of any episode. Even knowing the outcome of the battle, I could hardly breathe through that last 10 minutes of it. I cannot believe the amount of detail and realism they have put into the show's effects and choreography. It feels more real than many AAA movies I've seen in the past few years and on top of the emotional attachment we have to these characters over the years, it makes it almost too much to take. I do get why they are doing this with Arya even if I don't like it. Arya's testing Sansa. It's painful for me to watch though. The beautiful yet sad moment between Daenerys and Jon was so lovely and heartbreaking. Losing Viserion hurt a lot more than I thought it would and I cried. I'm not surprised Daenerys didn't show that much emotion at first, she was in shock and the emergency of the situation took over. Jon was the same way when Rickon died right in front of him too. Her grieving came later, especially when she let down her guard with Jon. I wish they hadn't put the Winterfell last scene in there where they did, it felt out of place considering the dire circumstances of everything else happening at the same time and made it harder to watch and try to understand when my heart was hammering and wanting to get back to see how the rest played out at Eastwatch. It's an amazing episode. I'm glad I decided to go ahead and watch it early because I needed to clear my head on the Arya/Sansa thing. The fandom is going to be very divided about it but I am accepting it and understanding it's still playing out and the final act of that storyline is yet to come.
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