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Post by Envie on Mar 7, 2019 10:07:53 GMT -5
Also, agree. My instinct is that gif takes place in KL and NOT Winterfell. I guess it could also be somewhere on the wall? Eastwatch was destroyed so maybe the next opportunity they have to get down from the wall after the NK attack is an abandoned castle. All of the other castles on the wall were abandoned ages ago and are in a mostly ruined state, so that image of the three of them stepping down into some sort of hallway or room doesn't seem like a northern castle at all, especially one at the wall that's in ruins. We know it's probably not Castle Black which is mostly just a wood and stone structure squatting at the base of the wall - we've seen it's exteriors and interiors plenty of times. So if it's not a northern place, it has to be a southern one. You're right it could be somewhere else entirely. Another castle they decide to take over on the way southward would also make sense. I could see Jon sending them immediately south to warn the other Lords and castles along the way what's coming for them. Since we don't see any shots of those three in promos and at the battle of Winterfell, I have to guess they aren't even going to be in the battle of Winterfell. The Night's Watch has always been the ones to go to King's Landing to report directly to the crown - so Edd going there makes a lot of sense.
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Post by Envie on Mar 7, 2019 10:16:15 GMT -5
Who will be the biggest death of WF battle? Jorah? They want you to think it might be Jaime or Arya since those two were shown in heavy fighting scenes and things looked pretty bad at that point. With as much misdirection as they're doing, I don't think those two die. We might lose Jorah, Podrick, Greyworm, maybe even Brienne. Jaime's story seems to indicate a bigger ending for him (in King's Landing I think) because of Cersei. Sandor can't die, we have to have Cleganebowl!
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Post by Maesteress on Mar 7, 2019 10:26:44 GMT -5
Who will be the biggest death of WF battle? Jorah? They want you to think it might be Jaime or Arya since those two were shown in heavy fighting scenes and things looked pretty bad at that point. With as much misdirection as they're doing, I don't think those two die. We might lose Jorah, Podrick, Greyworm, maybe even Brienne. Jaime's story seems to indicate a bigger ending for him (in King's Landing I think) because of Cersei. Sandor can't die, we have to have Cleganebowl! Remind me - didn't we have some filming confirmation (or other) that there are handful of our leads we know make it down to KL? Or that they were seen together on set - my memory is getting fuzzy now between the filming spoilers, general discussion and now that we have some actual footage. But I seem to remember that Jon, Dany, Brienne, Tyrion, Sandor, Sansa and a handful of others were together filming in what was presumed to be KL....anyone recall? That would help with speculating who doesn't make it out of Winterfell.... All dogs need to survive the finale, including Ghost and the Hound. That is my wish.
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Post by sercreighton on Mar 7, 2019 10:33:11 GMT -5
alcasinoroyaleI liked your post after 1 sentences. Nothing wrong with being long and strong. I am not from the Twitter generation I appreciate the thought and response you put in it. I agree with Paragraph 1. Paragraph 2, yes it's clear the defenses broke. When I think of Drogon and Rheagal, I think of a line from the books, you don't want to bring your dragons out to early. Martin repeats that a few time. We know Jon is on the Ground for some action but we didn't see much of him. We don't see Dany either. We know certain characters are outside the walls to start. Jon wasn't shown outside the walls, That doesn't mean he isn't there, but we don't get that glimpse. We saw Pod with Bri but also Jaime. Some have suggested he is commanding the Trebuchet, though you would think there is more than one. Perhaps they cgi a few more in and use the physical one for practical effects and a staging point. Mel does return this much we know, the shots we had of her were outside the Walls. I don't know if she returns with an army, I don't think we saw any new forces but it's possible.Her rumors were she wounds the NK, which later became she raised the dead and he got scared and ran away. Or maybe she breaks the spell on some wights. We saw 3 flaming swords so someone feels the Burn (Ah political jokes). That could be Ed, Beric, and Tormund but that doesn't feel right to me. The hound looked like he was trying to master his fear, perhaps some main characters die and are brought back. The 3 Amigos ED, Beric and Tormund have an interesting clip. Wherever they are it looks abandoned. Probably not burnt down Winterfell and it didn't look like Winterfell, or Castle black. One of the old forts maybe, maybe even the Night Fort. I can't see Cersei give up her only safety net with the GC, that's really all she has to keep Euron in check and only defense for whatever is coming her way. I don't think the battle of Winterfell is a distraction, because we know Cersei in KL still has a story and that we will eventually be there. From a beat standpoint, the GC makes no sense in the north, a battle right before the battle that is only a distraction from the double secret probation battle. Everyone knows there will be a battle at KL either the army of Light or the army of night at the very least Jaime calls it out in 7/7. What bugs more than anything is that if Jon and Danys army gets crushed, and Winterfell is destroyed, how is it they reorganize and get to KL before the NK? One thing to consider, we saw Winterfell burn and burn big. There could be no internal filming during this. So external shots only, however they were always going to destroy it, it was never going to be used again. Filming was done, how do we know that wasn't a big distraction? The NK crushing Winterfell, sees something and withdraws his forces. Dany and Jon somehow reorganize their forces, find some supplies, and march south. But the NK has left first and is also heading south and as Jon says they never rest, they never stop. Once south of the Neck the NK does not have to go to KL a place that didn't exist when he was alive. He could go to any of the towns and cities and get fresh bodies. Yet he doesn't he follows a force he fears to engage to a place they will only get stronger at. The KL set isn't like the Winterfell set, you can't fight in open ground, and you can't green screen stage right. So it's two battlements a gate and a short bit of wall. Danys forces come from stage left where the green screen is. It's a much more limited space than a battle on an open field that falls back to close in fighting at the Winterfell set. It starts close in and breeches to the even tighter street. Its a tough call but it feels very different to me than the battle of Winterfell in both scope and participants. Where is the snow? Now if the NK roams around the kingdom building up his forces and surrounds KL and it's a last ditch attempt to kill him on Viserion and his forces are just beyond dealing with that makes sense. But it doesn't feel like there is time for that. Episode 4 get to KL episode 5, battle at KL. Makes it hard to establish him running around building up his forces. I don't know it's either going to be some extremely convienant and flawed plot beats, or the Fleaks are way off. From a tactical standpoint it's stupid, from a logic standpoint it's stupid because the all seeing NK has no sense of tactics. No wonder he keeps losing. It's that or maybe he doesn't make it that far south. We know they gotta take him out in the sky, that's pretty much established, we know they defeat his army by killing him. Which mean any battle with his army is irrelivant as the victory condition is to kill a singular Other. The real main battle is in the sky, it's the only battle that matters, and that filming will be done on a sound stage. So that means both Winterfell and KL are distractions, unless the Victory condition for KL is not to defeat the NK who may already be dead, but to defeat Cersei. Long posts are the best, they show you care, and I know how much people love reading them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 10:55:41 GMT -5
They want you to think it might be Jaime or Arya since those two were shown in heavy fighting scenes and things looked pretty bad at that point. With as much misdirection as they're doing, I don't think those two die. We might lose Jorah, Podrick, Greyworm, maybe even Brienne. Jaime's story seems to indicate a bigger ending for him (in King's Landing I think) because of Cersei. Sandor can't die, we have to have Cleganebowl! Remind me - didn't we have some filming confirmation (or other) that there are handful of our leads we know make it down to KL? Or that they were seen together on set - my memory is getting fuzzy now between the filming spoilers, general discussion and now that we have some actual footage. But I seem to remember that Jon, Dany, Brienne, Tyrion, Sandor, Sansa and a handful of others were together filming in what was presumed to be KL....anyone recall? That would help with speculating who doesn't make it out of Winterfell.... All dogs need to survive the finale, including Ghost and the Hound. That is my wish. A handful of cast members are confirmed to have filmed in Spain (what they filmed is a different question entirely). Those were Maisie, Isaac, Sophie, Gwen and I think Peter plus probably a couple more who I can't remember. It's unknown whether the rest of the present cast members filmed, but I would lean towards probably not. Pretty sure of the rest, Kit was definitely filming on the KL set at Belfast (and he was in Croatia so again unless shenanigans took place, Jon definitely makes it to KL). I'm struggling to remember if Emilia was confirmed to be filming at the KL set in Belfast or if there were only rumours of her flying about on Drogon at the time. She was rumoured to be in Croatia too, but I personally take that with a massive pinch of salt given its source. Not that there's any chance of Dany not making it to the final stage of the battle! But as I said before, the 55 day night shoot also covered some of the KL battle so it's really anyone's guess.
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Post by King Tommen on Mar 7, 2019 11:19:55 GMT -5
Winterfell is breached and lost thanks to the WW army and both sides take tremendous losses during the battle. The human survivors escape through the crypts and have to regroup by going to KL. The NK did not anticipate there being an escape valve from Winterfell via the crypts and as we've seen, his army moves about as slow as a foot force possibly can so he isn't going to be able to beat the survivors to KL. He may decide that his best tactic is to just head there alone on dragon back and replenish his army with KL residents.
Tell me again what the logic problem is with this again because I don't understand the argument?
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Post by Envie on Mar 7, 2019 11:23:10 GMT -5
Remind me - didn't we have some filming confirmation (or other) that there are handful of our leads we know make it down to KL? Or that they were seen together on set - my memory is getting fuzzy now between the filming spoilers, general discussion and now that we have some actual footage. But I seem to remember that Jon, Dany, Brienne, Tyrion, Sandor, Sansa and a handful of others were together filming in what was presumed to be KL....anyone recall? That would help with speculating who doesn't make it out of Winterfell.... All dogs need to survive the finale, including Ghost and the Hound. That is my wish. A handful of cast members are confirmed to have filmed in Spain (what they filmed is a different question entirely). Those were Maisie, Isaac, Sophie, Gwen and I think Peter plus probably a couple more who I can't remember. It's unknown whether the rest of the present cast members filmed, but I would lean towards probably not. Pretty sure of the rest, Kit was definitely filming on the KL set at Belfast (and he was in Croatia so again unless shenanigans took place, Jon definitely makes it to KL). I'm struggling to remember if Emilia was confirmed to be filming at the KL set in Belfast or if there were only rumours of her flying about on Drogon at the time. She was rumoured to be in Croatia too, but I personally take that with a massive pinch of salt given its source. Not that there's any chance of Dany not making it to the final stage of the battle! But as I said before, the 55 day night shoot also covered some of the KL battle so it's really anyone's guess. Based on that list of people spotted at the KL filming, we can make a guess Brienne probably survives Winterfell if Gwen was spotted there. I'm worried that NCW wasn't spotted there but he may have evaded cameras successfully? Surely Jaime doesn't die in Winterfell, that would be really disappointing.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Mar 7, 2019 11:25:12 GMT -5
Winterfell is breached and lost thanks to the WW army and both sides take tremendous losses during the battle. The human survivors escape through the crypts and have to regroup by going to KL. The NK did not anticipate there being an escape valve from Winterfell via the crypts and as we've seen, his army moves about as slow as a foot force possibly can so he isn't going to be able to beat the survivors to KL. He may decide that his best tactic is to just head there alone on dragon back and replenish his army with KL residents. Tell me again what the logic problem is with this again because I don't understand the argument? There is no logical problem with that argument. I think that's pretty much on point to what will happen.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Mar 7, 2019 11:41:11 GMT -5
Am I the only one who does find it a little odd Beric is using his flaming sword as a torch? Edd's sword is not raised, so there doesn't appear to be an eminent threat. But the need for an insta-torch would indicate where they are headed is somewhat abandoned or oddly empty. If it's KL, as the architecture seems to indicate...where is everyone and why are they creeping around? Could it be that it's a new location we haven't seen before like The Last Hearth. They find the castle to be abandoned because the NK has already massacred and reanimated everyone there and is on his way to Winterfell. If Beric and Tormund are going towards Castle Black to reach Edd, they would end up behind NK and the AotD. That's probably wrong though.
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Post by Maesteress on Mar 7, 2019 11:56:29 GMT -5
Random quick left turn, but - do you think this season is going to revisit the Caster baby "donations" at all? I mean, this is a storyline that kinda just fell off the radar - have we assumed these babies become grown WW's? Are there adolescent WW's running around? We've only seen what - 4 lead WW's? The season they revealed what was happening with the babies seemed like it was a big clue to something bigger, but since then just has evaporated. The whole "star pupil" thing reminded me of all this. Any thoughts on whether this will play into the final season or have we just left it behind for the sake of time?
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Post by King Tommen on Mar 7, 2019 12:03:40 GMT -5
Not basing this on any kind of evidence (because there is none) but I wonder if the plan is to have the Winterfell battle include wightified characters that we know who have died in battle against them? (I'm thinking Hodor or maybe Benjen just as examples off the top of my head).
The reason I come back to this is that they are clearly very aware that a prolonged battle episode needs to have multiple POV's with multiple storylines for them so as not to induce fighting-fatigue in the audience. I think they obviously have a ton of characters they can use for these different viewpoints on the human side that the audience cares about and can cut back and forth from during the battle. The issue is that the enemy is basically the NK (who may face-off with a couple of the heroes during the fight) and a handful of nameless WW lieutenants we don't know much about and a horde of zombies. You can do a lot with a horde of zombies as threats (see Hardhome) but that can only get you so far, at some point, they're just fodder for the heroes and it's hard to ratchet up the tension.
But if they wanted to ramp up the drama, having a couple reveals of wights being characters who have previously died and that have connections to say Bran, Sam, Jon, the Starks etc, would make that cutaway storyline much more compelling.
I also wonder if there could be a 2nd phase of the battle where the NK decides to raise the dead immediately (a la Hardhome) to have on his side and that could include some characters we like who were killed during the battle. Again, no evidence of this but just something I wonder about due to what they say they're trying to accomplish in this episode.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 12:32:51 GMT -5
A handful of cast members are confirmed to have filmed in Spain (what they filmed is a different question entirely). Those were Maisie, Isaac, Sophie, Gwen and I think Peter plus probably a couple more who I can't remember. It's unknown whether the rest of the present cast members filmed, but I would lean towards probably not. Pretty sure of the rest, Kit was definitely filming on the KL set at Belfast (and he was in Croatia so again unless shenanigans took place, Jon definitely makes it to KL). I'm struggling to remember if Emilia was confirmed to be filming at the KL set in Belfast or if there were only rumours of her flying about on Drogon at the time. She was rumoured to be in Croatia too, but I personally take that with a massive pinch of salt given its source. Not that there's any chance of Dany not making it to the final stage of the battle! But as I said before, the 55 day night shoot also covered some of the KL battle so it's really anyone's guess. Based on that list of people spotted at the KL filming, we can make a guess Brienne probably survives Winterfell if Gwen was spotted there. I'm worried that NCW wasn't spotted there but he may have evaded cameras successfully? Surely Jaime doesn't die in Winterfell, that would be really disappointing. NCW was in Spain along with approx. 500 other cast members, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't filming. But as I said, they did some of the KL battle filming in the 55 day night shoot and he definitely participated heavily in that so I don't think it's unlikely he makes it. Although I wouldn't really be shocked if he doesn't.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 12:34:47 GMT -5
Random quick left turn, but - do you think this season is going to revisit the Caster baby "donations" at all? I mean, this is a storyline that kinda just fell off the radar - have we assumed these babies become grown WW's? Are there adolescent WW's running around? We've only seen what - 4 lead WW's? The season they revealed what was happening with the babies seemed like it was a big clue to something bigger, but since then just has evaporated. The whole "star pupil" thing reminded me of all this. Any thoughts on whether this will play into the final season or have we just left it behind for the sake of time? I hope so! I wonder if Gilly can play a role here, somehow. Craster had about 100 sons which means she is the sister/aunt of about 100 White Walkers.
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Post by moiaf on Mar 7, 2019 12:41:50 GMT -5
There's an interview with the guy who plays the Night's King, here are some quotes:
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Post by moiaf on Mar 7, 2019 13:12:54 GMT -5
Random quick left turn, but - do you think this season is going to revisit the Caster baby "donations" at all? I mean, this is a storyline that kinda just fell off the radar - have we assumed these babies become grown WW's? Are there adolescent WW's running around? We've only seen what - 4 lead WW's? The season they revealed what was happening with the babies seemed like it was a big clue to something bigger, but since then just has evaporated. The whole "star pupil" thing reminded me of all this. Any thoughts on whether this will play into the final season or have we just left it behind for the sake of time? I do believe it'll get addressed and that it might be tied into what the NK is truly after.
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