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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 10:24:03 GMT -5
Could the Dornishman be proposing marriage to Dany in exchange for his army? Maybe that is what the scroll says. That’s certainly a possibility which I think will push Jon towards Dany (make him realize how much he loves her. Blah, blah, blah). If a situation like presents itself and I don't like it in advance (just in case) as we went through with this in Meereen with Hizdar. Marriage purely based on politics and her third marriage irrc is out of love, if they follow up on that. Knowing Jon's character he'd be more begrudgingly inclined to support such a proposal for Dany. Obviously, he'd hate it on a personal level but she has to win the throne as he knows better than most that Dany is the best choice they have. Mentioned it to Sansa and it's her duty to claim the throne he has no interest in and we know how Jon is about duty vs love. He'll probably go on to brood over this elsewhere and suffer in silence as he always does. Until other events happen that change the narrative. I guess it could be done intentionally to make people suspect, but if she's only a couple of months along, she's not really going to be showing anything yet. I'm no expert on this even though I'm a Mother of three. All women carry babies so differently. I always looked further along than I was because I carried way out front where other women carry babies lower in their hips and can sometimes get away with not showing for the first 6 months depending on their size. Since Dany is so small, I'd imagine she'd show a little bump but not this soon. I'm still not a big fan of the pregnancy happening. I want it to play out naturally and not be rushed or left without a satisfying conclusion but at least now I can relax a bit knowing the Night King isn't coming for their baby (or Gilly's) haha! Oh right, I forgot. To me the baby is guaranteed. We were given no less than five clues last season the baby was coming. Then we have Davos talking about marriage. They’re pretty obvious with their foreshadowing. If you’re willing to be open to it. We also had Varys talking about nothing last while overlooking Dany and Jon in the same conversation with Davos, Tyrion. Obviously, not all of it is foreshadowing but while a baby is kinda pretty sure imo due to like 5 or 6 separate scenes. Unless they forgot about al of it. lol Marriage between these two at this point would be curious as Jon has nothing to offer to Dany politically unless they make his parentage public knowledge + baby. So I think there might be a proposal from Dorne or elsewhere, drama, she thinks about it and more drama and then baby. We have 3 very long episodes. It would mirror Cersei, Jaime, Euron triangle but this time Dany would choose love over army and this on over whoever is that another guy. If it even comes to any proposal at all.
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Post by moiaf on May 3, 2019 10:36:11 GMT -5
That’s certainly a possibility which I think will push Jon towards Dany (make him realize how much he loves her. Blah, blah, blah). If a situation like presents itself and I don't like it in advance (just in case) as we went through with this in Meereen with Hizdar. Marriage purely based on politics and her third marriage irrc is out of love, if they follow up on that. Knowing Jon's character he'd be more begrudgingly inclined to support such a proposal for Dany. Obviously, he'd hate it on a personal level but she has to win the throne as he knows better than most that Dany is the best choice they have. Mentioned it to Sansa and it's her duty to claim the throne he has no interest in and we know how Jon is about duty vs love. He'll probably go on to brood over this elsewhere and suffer in silence as he always does. Until other events happen that change the narrative. Oh right, I forgot. To me the baby is guaranteed. We were given no less than five clues last season the baby was coming. Then we have Davos talking about marriage. They’re pretty obvious with their foreshadowing. If you’re willing to be open to it. We also had Varys talking about nothing last while overlooking Dany and Jon in the same conversation with Davos, Tyrion. Obviously, not all of it is foreshadowing but while a baby is kinda pretty sure imo due to like 5 or 6 separate scenes. Unless they forgot about al of it. lol Marriage between these two at this point would be curious as Jon has nothing to offer to Dany politically unless they make his parentage public knowledge + baby. So I think there might be a proposal from Dorne or elsewhere, drama, she thinks about it and more drama and then baby. We have 3 very long episodes. It would mirror Cersei, Jaime, Euron triangle but this time Dany would choose love over army and this on over whoever is that another guy. If it even comes to any proposal at all. I think with Dany and Jon is that they are also suppose to be good for each other and therefore good for the real. I'm talking meta level. So, Davos comments about a just queen and a honorable king come into play, that while you are right, Jon doesn't have much to offer he does in theory make a good team with her. This is where the whole theme of "Together" that we saw last season. And yes, you could be right that Jon would be incline to support such a union with Dorne at first out of duty because it is the political expedient thing, but come to realize that he loves her no matter what and that they should be together. Probably adding more angst to the whole thing. LOL!
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 10:38:26 GMT -5
It is a reach. A scarf is not a clue that Sansa is secretly a Dany supporter. That wouldn't even make sense. Their positions are diametrically opposed to one another. What reason would she have? Also, it's just a scarf I don't know, Dany just saved everyone's life with her army and her dragons. Had she not been there, the dead would have swarmed over Winterfell and everyone would be dead. Sansa might be grateful to her for that. Again, nothing in the way Michele Clapton creates costumes is by accident. She's methodical and detailed. You can ignore that if you want. I'm not ignoring it at all, but I think this is a prime example of seeing something that isn't there. If anything you're ignoring the fact that these kind of neck scarves are NOT unique to Dany and another character wearing one is not a sign that she's secretly done a 180 and become a groupie. But if this scarf means anything (it doesn't) then I would say the reverse is more likely. So far only Dany has shown any effort in the Dany/Sansa relationship. She has actively tried to get on her good side.
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Post by moiaf on May 3, 2019 10:50:21 GMT -5
I don't know, Dany just saved everyone's life with her army and her dragons. Had she not been there, the dead would have swarmed over Winterfell and everyone would be dead. Sansa might be grateful to her for that. Again, nothing in the way Michele Clapton creates costumes is by accident. She's methodical and detailed. You can ignore that if you want. I'm not ignoring it at all, but I think this is a prime example of seeing something that isn't there. If anything you're ignoring the fact that these kind of neck scarves are NOT unique to Dany and another character wearing one is not a sign that she's secretly done a 180 and become a groupie. But if this scarf means anything (it doesn't) then I would say the reverse is more likely. So far only Dany has shown any effort in the Dany/Sansa relationship. She has actively tried to get on her good side. Sansa, more than any character in the series, has used clothing to express herself. Throughout the series you see her clothing evolve and adapt details of the people she admires. This isn't something I've made up, it's something that Michele Clapton has discussed and has been written about a lot. So, I'm just applying that same logic to why she would wear something, only Dany has warn.
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Post by daeronthegood on May 3, 2019 11:06:10 GMT -5
Did anyone noticed that Sansa is wearing the same ascot as Dany but in black? I think this goes back to the previous episode when she had that conversation with Tyrion. I've changed my mind and I think Sansa was playing Tyrion. Perhaps Bran gave her the heads up or she just suspects that Tyrion has devised loyalties and was trying to gauge his behavior and he fell right into the trap. He didn't rebut her. This goes back to episode 1 when Sansa told Tyrion he wasn't as smart as he thought he was. I think Sansa wearing the ascot is a clue that she's indeed on Dany's side. I'm not sure about Sansa being on Dany's side, but I did pick up on that line about divided loyalties vis a vis Dany. We saw an entire season's worth of Tyrion's divided loyalties and Dany paid for it dearly by losing most her army. It wan't lost on me that in Tyrion's precious few scenes in such a consequential episode, his divided loyalties were brought up again.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 11:11:02 GMT -5
I'm not ignoring it at all, but I think this is a prime example of seeing something that isn't there. If anything you're ignoring the fact that these kind of neck scarves are NOT unique to Dany and another character wearing one is not a sign that she's secretly done a 180 and become a groupie. But if this scarf means anything (it doesn't) then I would say the reverse is more likely. So far only Dany has shown any effort in the Dany/Sansa relationship. She has actively tried to get on her good side. Sansa, more than any character in the series, has used clothing to express herself. Throughout the series you see her clothing evolve and adapt details of the people she admires. This isn't something I've made up, it's something that Michele Clapton has discussed and has been written about a lot. So, I'm just applying that same logic to why she would wear something, only Dany has warn. Sansa doesn't admire Daenerys, though. She distrusts her and wants her to leave the North alone. And the scarf is not unique to Dany, as I have already said. Catelyn, the person Sansa has emulated the most throughout the series, has worn the same sort of scarf before.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 11:12:26 GMT -5
Did anyone noticed that Sansa is wearing the same ascot as Dany but in black? I think this goes back to the previous episode when she had that conversation with Tyrion. I've changed my mind and I think Sansa was playing Tyrion. Perhaps Bran gave her the heads up or she just suspects that Tyrion has devised loyalties and was trying to gauge his behavior and he fell right into the trap. He didn't rebut her. This goes back to episode 1 when Sansa told Tyrion he wasn't as smart as he thought he was. I think Sansa wearing the ascot is a clue that she's indeed on Dany's side. I'm not sure about Sansa being on Dany's side, but I did pick up on that line about divided loyalties vis a vis Dany. We saw an entire season's worth of Tyrion's divided loyalties and Dany paid for it dearly by losing most her army. It wan't lost on me that in Tyrion's precious few scenes in such a consequential episode, his divided loyalties were brought up again. Also, maybe I picked this up wrong, but I believe this conversation wasn't about Tyrion's divided loyalties between Dany and his family, but Sansa and Tyrion's loyalties lying with different people. That's why she said their marriage wouldn't work.
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Post by moiaf on May 3, 2019 11:14:28 GMT -5
Sansa, more than any character in the series, has used clothing to express herself. Throughout the series you see her clothing evolve and adapt details of the people she admires. This isn't something I've made up, it's something that Michele Clapton has discussed and has been written about a lot. So, I'm just applying that same logic to why she would wear something, only Dany has warn. Sansa doesn't admire Daenerys, though. She distrusts her and wants her to leave the North alone. And the scarf is not unique to Dany, as I have already said. Catelyn, the person Sansa has emulated the most throughout the series, has worn the same sort of scarf before. I don't remember Catelyn's scarf being silk. Do you have a picture?
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Post by sercreighton on May 3, 2019 11:41:55 GMT -5
I don't know, Dany just saved everyone's life with her army and her dragons. Had she not been there, the dead would have swarmed over Winterfell and everyone would be dead. Sansa might be grateful to her for that. Again, nothing in the way Michele Clapton creates costumes is by accident. She's methodical and detailed. You can ignore that if you want. I'm not ignoring it at all, but I think this is a prime example of seeing something that isn't there. If anything you're ignoring the fact that these kind of neck scarves are NOT unique to Dany and another character wearing one is not a sign that she's secretly done a 180 and become a groupie. But if this scarf means anything (it doesn't) then I would say the reverse is more likely. So far only Dany has shown any effort in the Dany/Sansa relationship. She has actively tried to get on her good side. I think with Sansa in particular costumes are more important than most, not all. Dany and Cersei are both wearing Crimson in the next episode. It's done for a reason of course. No Sansa would not dress like Arya but she does have her needle. You wouldn't say she dresses like Jon but they both share near identical cloaks, that Sansa made for Jon. Her coloring of clothing matched LF's while she was with him lots of blacks and greys. Same with when she was in KL. I think it sort of generally is used point to what Sansa is doing and learning and becoming. I think Sansa will be grateful to everyone who fought for the north. Everyone will be grateful to Arya, and Arya will probably be like fuck off, want food, want Gendry sex, go away. It would totally be out of character for Sansa to ignore what was sacrificed. Dany lost a lot of her people and her best friend helping the north. And if not for Dany, the NK is still on his Dragon. She did her part, her Army held the line while all the others retreated. And Tyrion stayed by her side in the crypts and it was clear he was going to protect her no matter what. The idea that she even held a man's hand after Ramsey is a big step for her. I don't mean on a romantic level but just any level. Hopefully this thaws some of the ice between them. I'm glad her and Tyrion connected, on an intellectual level they make sense and they essentially hold the same position. If Sansa is wearing a matching piece of costume to Dany, chances are it symbolizes perhaps them getting along a bit better. Hell for all we know Sansa made her new dress. I doubt it, but you never know with Sansa.
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Post by sercreighton on May 3, 2019 12:06:01 GMT -5
I hope we get a shot of some Northerners showing some gratitude and kindness toward Greywom and Missy cause the early images they used to depict northerners attitude towards them were not good. Maybe the kids bring missy some flowers. Or Royce who is not northern but in the club talks to Greyworm, something. I was hoping Greyworm would save Sam, Jorah did which brings Sam's kindness full circle. It sort of went unnoticed but when they said man the walls, Sam was lost and standing alone and then Jorah grabbed him and kept him by his side protecting him, and saving him a couple of times when he got swamped. I think Jorah Sparks some talks between them, maybe if he gets his own little ceremony Sam will be there. I also wonder if Sam is mad at Jon, unlikely but when Sam was calling to Jon for help, Jon ignored him in order to try and finish the mission, behind a rock...playing dragons lair.
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Post by moiaf on May 3, 2019 12:17:33 GMT -5
I hope we get a shot of some Northerners showing some gratitude and kindness toward Greywom and Missy cause the early images they used to depict northerners attitude towards them were not good. Maybe the kids bring missy some flowers. Or Royce who is not northern but in the club talks to Greyworm, something. I was hoping Greyworm would save Sam, Jorah did which brings Sam's kindness full circle. I would also like to see this very much. They didn't deserve the treatment they got and after how hard they fought and everything they've lost they do deserve at the bare minimum some respect.
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Post by daeronthegood on May 3, 2019 12:31:17 GMT -5
I hope we get a shot of some Northerners showing some gratitude and kindness toward Greywom and Missy cause the early images they used to depict northerners attitude towards them were not good. Maybe the kids bring missy some flowers. Or Royce who is not northern but in the club talks to Greyworm, something. I was hoping Greyworm would save Sam, Jorah did which brings Sam's kindness full circle. I would also like to see this very much. They didn't deserve the treatment they got and after how hard they fought and everything they've lost they do deserve at the bare minimum some respect. And if the bare minimum is all we expect of them, tells you everything you need to know about the north and its people.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 3, 2019 12:36:28 GMT -5
this sansa vs dany thing is so tired at this point.
sansa wants northern independent (i guess) and i get it, but also there would be no north left if dany hadn't just saved all of you, so idk.
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Post by daeronthegood on May 3, 2019 12:44:51 GMT -5
this sansa vs dany thing is so tired at this point. sansa wants northern independent (i guess) and i get it, but also there would be no north left if dany hadn't just saved all of you, so idk. I think the concept of northern independence is psychologically tied up with her sense of safety, she may soften once the prospect of removing Cersei from power becomes real to her. TBH northern independence is not feasible long term without a dissolution of the 7K. Six of the kingdoms under a single ruler will inevitably lead to attempts to conqueror the north, again and again and again. It will be like Dorne all over again, only smaller population, larger land and colder. Ironically the north's isolationism and not really getting involved with the south worked better when they were part of the 7K, but their leaders never went south.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 3, 2019 12:54:28 GMT -5
this sansa vs dany thing is so tired at this point. sansa wants northern independent (i guess) and i get it, but also there would be no north left if dany hadn't just saved all of you, so idk. I think the concept of northern independence is psychologically tied up with her sense of safety, she may soften once the prospect of removing Cersei from power becomes real to her. TBH northern independence is not feasible long term without a dissolution of the 7K. Six of the kingdoms under a single ruler will inevitably lead to attempts to conqueror the north, again and again and again. It will be like Dorne all over again, only smaller population, larger land and colder. Ironically the north's isolationism and not really getting involved with the south worked better when they were part of the 7K, but their leaders never went south. 100000% yes. I don't think Sansa feels super strongly about the North being independent, more does she feel strongly about never being trapped at the mercy of a king or queen again. besides daenerys, the only people she's ever known to care about the iron throne were literally monsters. joffrey was a violent sadist, cersei a manipulative bully, littlefinger a sociopathic liar...i wouldn't be shocked if sansa thinks that damn chair is just cursed. plus, her abuse at the hands of ramsay bolton probably just made her wary of outsiders in general. sansa has been shaped by experiences, so probably in her head: "wants the iron throne" + "isn't a stark" = "wants to hurt me"
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