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Post by melrose on Apr 11, 2017 15:02:18 GMT -5
I'm much less impressed with JKR's present work. I refuse to admit that the Cursed Child is canon. When I learnt about its plot the first time around, I though there must be a conspiracy to keep secret the true plotline, but nooooo. And the Fantastic Beasts... oh god. According to this newest addition to the lore, Harry should have died or become a deranged tornado before he got his Hogwarts letter. It's like she doesn't care what was established in the earlier canon anymore. In The Cursed Child's defense, the actual reading experience turned out to be much better than what the leaked synopsis suggested imho. As for the Fantastic Beasts, there was nothing in the film that suggested that Harry would have died or become a tornado (an Obscurus, I guess you mean) before he got his letter. Not everyone became an obscurus and Harry was - obviously - not mentioned. It doesn't contradict canon at all; in fast it suggests that perhaps Ariana had been an Obscurus. At least that's what I got out of it. Do you remember which part of the film suggested that Harry would have become an obscurus? I'd like to rewatch it, in case I missed it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 18:01:17 GMT -5
Speaking of books, of course.
I often read about Daenerys being a case of the "Princess In Exile Cliché" which implies a great deal of books having a similar character... but I cannot find any.
The only character that comes to mind as a parallel is Princess Leila and still there are plenty of differences there. So many. On the other hand, the hidden Prince or hidden Chosen One Prince/Heir seems quite common, most of Japanese anime is created around this archetype.
But Princesses In Exile? A trope? I think not.
Just had to get this off my chest, I often thought I had missed on a gargantuan piece of literature whenever I read about the Princess In Exile Trope and sure I may have but I searched for it and came up empty handed. Of course I may be lousy at searching.
And speaking of favorite books, I would love to mention anything by Marguerite Yourcenar, especially Memoirs of Hadrian, amazing book.
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Post by moiaf on Apr 15, 2017 19:04:15 GMT -5
Speaking of books, of course. I often read about Daenerys being a case of the "Princess In Exile Cliché" which implies a great deal of books having a similar character... but I cannot find any. The only character that comes to mind as a parallel is Princess Leila and still there are plenty of differences there. So many. On the other hand, the hidden Prince or hidden Chosen One Prince/Heir seems quite common, most of Japanese anime is created around this archetype. But Princesses In Exile? A trope? I think not. Just had to get this off my chest, I often thought I had missed on a gargantuan piece of literature whenever I read about the Princess In Exile Trope and sure I may have but I searched for it and came up empty handed. Of course I may be lousy at searching. And speaking of favorite books, I would love to mention anything by Marguerite Yourcenar, especially Memories of Adrian, amazing book. I'm glad you brought this up. It's one of the things I love about her character that she's actually quite unique in her representation. While there are many shades in her characterization that allude to well known tropes her entire character is wholly original, in my estimation. She doesn't fit into any one of the categories she could potentially be a part of, as you say the exiled princess is not common, but the exile prince is. However, that's about where any true comparison between her and that trope could be made. In the TV tropes sites they have an article about Dany and all the tropes she can fit into and there are a lot. But it's more about the complexity of her characterization. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/GameOfThronesDaenerysCourt
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 2:54:20 GMT -5
I love TvTropes, as you say the fact that she "fits" many categories, some also in contradiction with each other, is a testament to her complexity.
Of course TvTropes is a very tongue in cheek site, they make a trope for every possible trait, still a very interesting read.
I do think Daenerys to be one of the most original and complex female character ever written, which is why I am left puzzled whenever she is described as a trope like character. This statement never goes further than that though, I never read any info to back it up.
Actually, I would not mind her being a trope if it meant more characters like her but alas she remains unique.
Back on books, I recommend Marguerite Yourcener again.
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Post by moiaf on May 1, 2017 11:13:53 GMT -5
Has anyone read The Expanse book series by James S. A. Corey? I'm watching the TV series and really like it and was wondering if the book series was just as good.
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Post by lordcarson on May 1, 2017 12:56:47 GMT -5
Slaughterhouse-Five is fucking awesome. I knew literally nothing about it and had never read anything by Vonnegut before, so I didn't have any expectations but I was blown away.
Now I'm starting to reread AGOT while I wait for the new Star Wars book to be delivered tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 14:58:32 GMT -5
I started American Gods, because of the TV adaptation, I'm loving it. The style is very sharp and dry, I find it very effective and in contrast with the psychedelic story.
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Post by Singer of Death on May 4, 2017 18:39:04 GMT -5
Damn, the Tale of Genji book is humongous as f. There's a lot of footnotes to read, like you really, really need to read them in order to understand the contexts. There's a bunch of poetic dialogue that are also confusing, but some of then sounds very mesmerizing (Heian etiquette requires a person to speaks poetically and not directly btw) As for the story, it's okay. It's not epic or anything special other than the fact that it's the world first novel. It's just about a guy sleeping around. Really that's all there's to it. But i would say the main character, Genji, is pretty much a fuck up person that would make Oedipus shiver. He fell in love with his stepmother cuz she looks like his mother, bong her, and then fell in love with her 10 years old niece who look like her, and then kidnapped her to raise her as his perfect wife. Again, not too epic, but if anyone want to look into the Heian society, read this book.
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Post by moiaf on May 11, 2017 11:41:40 GMT -5
Damn, the Tale of Genji book is humongous as f. There's a lot of footnotes to read, like you really, really need to read them in order to understand the contexts. There's a bunch of poetic dialogue that are also confusing, but some of then sounds very mesmerizing (Heian etiquette requires a person to speaks poetically and not directly btw) As for the story, it's okay. It's not epic or anything special other than the fact that it's the world first novel. It's just about a guy sleeping around. Really that's all there's to it. But i would say the main character, Genji, is pretty much a fuck up person that would make Oedipus shiver. He fell in love with his stepmother cuz she looks like his mother, bong her, and then fell in love with her 10 years old niece who look like her, and then kidnapped her to raise her as his perfect wife. Again, not too epic, but if anyone want to look into the Heian society, read this book. That's some crazy shit but I imagine on par with other nobles and their eccentric behaviors. A lot of it was kept hush, hush, but there was a lot of crazy going around. Especially, if you were noble and wealthy. If I have time later this summer I might give it a try.
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Post by Singer of Death on May 11, 2017 14:01:59 GMT -5
Damn, the Tale of Genji book is humongous as f. There's a lot of footnotes to read, like you really, really need to read them in order to understand the contexts. There's a bunch of poetic dialogue that are also confusing, but some of then sounds very mesmerizing (Heian etiquette requires a person to speaks poetically and not directly btw) As for the story, it's okay. It's not epic or anything special other than the fact that it's the world first novel. It's just about a guy sleeping around. Really that's all there's to it. But i would say the main character, Genji, is pretty much a fuck up person that would make Oedipus shiver. He fell in love with his stepmother cuz she looks like his mother, bong her, and then fell in love with her 10 years old niece who look like her, and then kidnapped her to raise her as his perfect wife. Again, not too epic, but if anyone want to look into the Heian society, read this book. That's some crazy sheet but I imagine on par with other nobles and their eccentric behaviors. A lot of it was kept hush, hush, but there was a lot of crazy going around. Especially, if you were noble and wealthy. If I have time later this summer I might give it a try. You are very right about that. I would say that the Heian nobles were the eastern equivalent of the aristocrats of Versailles. Both spend their daily life pursuing sexual adventures and leisure times all while ignoring the problems of their outside world that lead to the rise of lower class who revolt. I don't know about the attitude of the French nobles toward other classes, but i read many memoirs and diaries of many Heian noblewomen and by modern standards, they were really, really snobbish and close-mined. In the Tale of Genji, most of the characters expressed how barbaric and uncivilized the lifestyle of the peasants. Genji winced at one of his lover's father simply cause he has tan skin, and some of the other characters mock a samurai for his 'suppose" wardrobe choices. According to what i read about the book's history, the chapter was actually censored cause the people back then can't stand reading the passage about a samurai. That really speaks volume about how they behave back then.
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Post by moiaf on May 11, 2017 14:11:39 GMT -5
That's some crazy sheet but I imagine on par with other nobles and their eccentric behaviors. A lot of it was kept hush, hush, but there was a lot of crazy going around. Especially, if you were noble and wealthy. If I have time later this summer I might give it a try. You are very right about that. I would say that the Heian nobles were the eastern equivalent of the aristocrats of Versailles. Both spend their daily life pursuing sexual adventures and leisure times all while ignoring the problems of their outside world that lead to the rise of lower class who revolt. I don't know about the attitude of the French nobles toward other classes, but i read many memoirs and diaries of many Heian noblewomen and by modern standards, they were really, really snobbish and close-mined. In the Tale of Genji, most of the characters expressed how barbaric and uncivilized the lifestyle of the peasants. Genji winced at one of his lover's father simply cause he has tan skin, and some of the other characters mock a samurai for his 'suppose" wardrobe choices. According to what i read about the book's history, the chapter was actually censored cause the people back then can't stand reading the passage about a samurai. That really speaks volume about how they behave back then. It's like Elitism on crack, especially with the Western royals they saw their power as deriving from god. To them the masses were just plebs, sheep to be herded for their own desires. It's pretty much how most monarchies collapse because their views and exploitation of the people could no longer be sustained. It also shows the hypocrisy of it all. A lot of the religious hierarchy that dictated behavior were born from this class or became affiliated with this class and their standards of behavior never applied to the rich and powerful (which is sadly still true). These nobles behaved outrageously by any standard and just got away with it. The samurai anecdote is interesting, given what she know happened in Japan when the Shogunate eventually took power from the Emperor. They were mocked but eventually became rulers or part of the ruling class.
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Post by Singer of Death on May 11, 2017 14:30:03 GMT -5
You are very right about that. I would say that the Heian nobles were the eastern equivalent of the aristocrats of Versailles. Both spend their daily life pursuing sexual adventures and leisure times all while ignoring the problems of their outside world that lead to the rise of lower class who revolt. I don't know about the attitude of the French nobles toward other classes, but i read many memoirs and diaries of many Heian noblewomen and by modern standards, they were really, really snobbish and close-mined. In the Tale of Genji, most of the characters expressed how barbaric and uncivilized the lifestyle of the peasants. Genji winced at one of his lover's father simply cause he has tan skin, and some of the other characters mock a samurai for his 'suppose" wardrobe choices. According to what i read about the book's history, the chapter was actually censored cause the people back then can't stand reading the passage about a samurai. That really speaks volume about how they behave back then. It's like Elitism on crack, especially with the Western royals they saw their power as deriving from god. To them the masses were just plebs, sheep to be herded for their own desires. It's pretty much how most monarchies collapse because their views and exploitation of the people could no longer be sustained. It also shows the hypocrisy of it all. A lot of the religious hierarchy that dictated behavior were born from this class or became affiliated with this class and their standards of behavior never applied to the rich and powerful (which is sadly still true). These nobles behaved outrageously by any standard and just got away with it. The samurai anecdote is interesting, given what she know happened in Japan when the Shogunate eventually took power from the Emperor. They were mocked but eventually became rulers or part of the ruling class. I'm aware that western royals also have power to get away with such crimes. But i want to argued that Renaissance and Baroque nobles have more freedom and liberty to whatever they desires more than their medieval counterparts due to believing in kings having divine rights which allows them unlimited power they inherited from God. In medieval, the church is the most powerful position in the hierarchy, so not even the nobles and royals can do whatever they want if their action was called out by the clerics or Pope. The whole droit du seigneur (Roose practiced this in the book if you don't know) thing in the middle ages was a myth created by Victorian era as there was no documents that record this from contemporary. But priests an clerics on the other hand... Interesting while the author of Tale of Genji, Murasaki Shikibu, was noblewoman herself and a product of the court society, in her diary she expressed her distaste about how frivolous the Heian court behaved and how much they ignored the problems outside which she did not like one bit. She criticized every person she met including the Empress which was the most shocking thing she had done (doing so openly would warrant her punishment). So this could explains how Murasaki was able to write details that would make her audience roll their eyes. Edit: Sorry, just want to point out that there the shogun didn't really took away the power from the Emperor. The Emperor has no power whatsoever in the government throughout history, only the Shogun.
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Post by day dreamer on May 21, 2017 23:11:04 GMT -5
I just got The Handmaid's Tale, but I've got an insane layover coming up in a few weeks that I'm saving it for.
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Post by moiaf on May 22, 2017 8:20:45 GMT -5
I just got The Handmaid's Tale, but I've got an insane layover coming up in a few weeks that I'm saving it for. Going anywhere fun?
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Post by day dreamer on May 22, 2017 20:59:39 GMT -5
I just got The Handmaid's Tale, but I've got an insane layover coming up in a few weeks that I'm saving it for. Going anywhere fun? Scotland!
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