Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 13:08:48 GMT -5
Why are you guys feeling down? We've just got five episodes of Jon/Dany content with baby foreshadowing! Have I interrupted an obligatory masochism hour or something? Frankly, I think you are worrying over nothing. For years people argumented that her reunion with Drogo and Rhaego signifies her death, although Jon back from the dead to tell us that there is no afterlife. For years people have claimed she will totes die in childbirth, now she will totes die by an arrow. I don't know if she will die or not, but what I know for totes is that she can't die both in childbirth and by arrow, LOL, so there's got to be some BS in all this totes analysis. I'll be honest: I see zero reasons as to why Dany should die and I've never understood why people are searching for anything that could foreshadow her death. I haven't seen this with any other character except Arya. With both of them people take one sentence or one scene and consider it a clear confirmation that the character in question will die. Also - this is not a proof of anything but purely my personal sentiment - I really hate the trope of a dead mother. It's a trope appearing often in fiction, and it's disturbing. Even GRRM participates in this awful trope - and not only with Rhaella, Lyanna, and Joanna. Catelyn and her children are literally the exception proving the rule. Which characters think of their mothers ever? Catelyn has a relationship with her father and uncle, but she hardly even mentions her mother. Ned never ever thinks of his mother, although Lyarra Stark should lay in the crypts next her husband and children. Cersei and Jaime don't think of their mother much either, although they've got to remember her. Brienne's mother conveniently died soon as well. Arianne's mother? Not dead, but completely absent, left for Norvos years ago. Theon and Asha's mother? Allegedly used to be badass, but now she's crazy and Lady Not Appearing. Pretty much all the main characters have complex relationship with their fathers or father figures, but mothers are an idolized pantheon from another sphere that doesn't have any bearing on their children's life. It's like if mothers aren't allowed to have any influence on their children except popping them out. I'd really hate if the same fate befell Daenerys in the end. The theme of being a mother is so strong in her arc - I hope she actually gets to be a mother to her child instead of an idealized heroine from a song that died after pushing it out. Okay, that's it. Rant over. I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable but I find your rant super sexy. Grrrrr. On a positive note, I'll finally be home tomorrow. I've enjoyed my vacation but I'm looking forward to sleeping on my bed. It's a comfy one. I'm looking forward to seeing the return of your metas.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 30, 2017 13:10:06 GMT -5
I've just never been of the theory that Jon and/or Dany will die. I've gone into it before, but GRRM always mentions the aftermath of war and administration. That seems to be what he wants to focus on and I could see him wanting to explore what Jon and Dany do. There's a reason "together" is used so often with Jon/Dany. They are merged now, their future is one. It wouldn't be a very good song if half the song is missing. They either both live or both die, there is no going back now. As you say this is about togetherness. I once called the complimentary counterparts and that's what they are without the other the equation is unbalanced.
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Post by Envie on Aug 30, 2017 13:12:32 GMT -5
I'd really hate if the same fate befell Daenerys in the end. The theme of being a mother is so strong in her arc - I hope she actually gets to be a mother to her child instead of an idealized heroine from a song that died after pushing it out. I think all of us here hope for the same thing. But it's only fair to examine the other potential outcomes. As you said, you, nor anyone here knows for sure the outcome for Daenerys. That doesn't mean people bringing in ideas of what might happen means they think that's totally going to happen. It's speculation. If everyone here thought for certain Daenerys and Jon live through the entire thing, have a child and go on to raise it as the leaders of Westeros, then we'd only have an echo chamber for a forum thread and nothing else to talk about. We could also all be dead wrong. Exploring the possibilities does not need to make anyone 'feel down' as you put it - it simply encourages healthy speculation into the "what ifs" of the story - and isn't that what we've all loved for so long about it? One never can be sure what's going to happen. I do agree with you GRRM has overused the tragic "Motherless child" card a bit too much in the story overall. Sure, death in childbirth was common in medieval times but in Westeros medieval times it seems to be an epidemic! I too would love to see Daenerys beat the odds and be breaker-of-wheels (as if she needs another title) to create a better world for the future of Westeros. I'm just more willing to explore the other alternatives objectively and with an open mind to the possibility.
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Post by lojzelote on Aug 30, 2017 13:16:14 GMT -5
Why are you guys feeling down? We've just got five episodes of Jon/Dany content with baby foreshadowing! Have I interrupted an obligatory masochism hour or something? Frankly, I think you are worrying over nothing. For years people argumented that her reunion with Drogo and Rhaego signifies her death, although Jon back from the dead to tell us that there is no afterlife. For years people have claimed she will totes die in childbirth, now she will totes die by an arrow. I don't know if she will die or not, but what I know for totes is that she can't die both in childbirth and by arrow, LOL, so there's got to be some BS in all this totes analysis. I'll be honest: I see zero reasons as to why Dany should die and I've never understood why people are searching for anything that could foreshadow her death. I haven't seen this with any other character except Arya. With both of them people take one sentence or one scene and consider it a clear confirmation that the character in question will die. Also - this is not a proof of anything but purely my personal sentiment - I really hate the trope of a dead mother. It's a trope appearing often in fiction, and it's disturbing. Even GRRM participates in this awful trope - and not only with Rhaella, Lyanna, and Joanna. Catelyn and her children are literally the exception proving the rule. Which characters think of their mothers ever? Catelyn has a relationship with her father and uncle, but she hardly even mentions her mother. Ned never ever thinks of his mother, although Lyarra Stark should lay in the crypts next her husband and children. Cersei and Jaime don't think of their mother much either, although they've got to remember her. Brienne's mother conveniently died soon as well. Arianne's mother? Not dead, but completely absent, left for Norvos years ago. Theon and Asha's mother? Allegedly used to be badass, but now she's crazy and Lady Not Appearing. Pretty much all the main characters have complex relationship with their fathers or father figures, but mothers are an idolized pantheon from another sphere that doesn't have any bearing on their children's life. It's like if mothers aren't allowed to have any influence on their children except popping them out. I'd really hate if the same fate befell Daenerys in the end. The theme of being a mother is so strong in her arc - I hope she actually gets to be a mother to her child instead of an idealized heroine from a song that died after pushing it out. Okay, that's it. Rant over. Well how else do you expect us to spend our lunch hour? I just find it funny how fans of pairings like SanSan, Gendrya, or Brienne/Jaime are usually still hopefull for some action between their faves in spite of lack of evidence that that anything will happen or that a lot of screentime will be dedicated to it, but Jon/Dany shippers, who have just gotten five episodes of Jon/Dany content and an implicit promise that their relationship will be central in the final season as well can only think about if and how their faves die.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 30, 2017 13:25:58 GMT -5
Why are you guys feeling down? We've just got five episodes of Jon/Dany content with baby foreshadowing! Have I interrupted an obligatory masochism hour or something? Frankly, I think you are worrying over nothing. For years people argumented that her reunion with Drogo and Rhaego signifies her death, although Jon back from the dead to tell us that there is no afterlife. For years people have claimed she will totes die in childbirth, now she will totes die by an arrow. I don't know if she will die or not, but what I know for totes is that she can't die both in childbirth and by arrow, LOL, so there's got to be some BS in all this totes analysis. I'll be honest: I see zero reasons as to why Dany should die and I've never understood why people are searching for anything that could foreshadow her death. I haven't seen this with any other character except Arya. With both of them people take one sentence or one scene and consider it a clear confirmation that the character in question will die. Also - this is not a proof of anything but purely my personal sentiment - I really hate the trope of a dead mother. It's a trope appearing often in fiction, and it's disturbing. Even GRRM participates in this awful trope - and not only with Rhaella, Lyanna, and Joanna. Catelyn and her children are literally the exception proving the rule. Which characters think of their mothers ever? Catelyn has a relationship with her father and uncle, but she hardly even mentions her mother. Ned never ever thinks of his mother, although Lyarra Stark should lay in the crypts next her husband and children. Cersei and Jaime don't think of their mother much either, although they've got to remember her. Brienne's mother conveniently died soon as well. Arianne's mother? Not dead, but completely absent, left for Norvos years ago. Theon and Asha's mother? Allegedly used to be badass, but now she's crazy and Lady Not Appearing. Pretty much all the main characters have complex relationship with their fathers or father figures, but mothers are an idolized pantheon from another sphere that doesn't have any bearing on their children's life. It's like if mothers aren't allowed to have any influence on their children except popping them out. I'd really hate if the same fate befell Daenerys in the end. The theme of being a mother is so strong in her arc - I hope she actually gets to be a mother to her child instead of an idealized heroine from a song that died after pushing it out. Okay, that's it. Rant over. Sorry, I'm going to have to quote the whole thing again but I'm on my phone. I wanted to briefly touch on your observation of Dany and the theme of Motherhood that is so prevelant throughout her act. I've discussed with other the double meaning of her title Mother of Dragons. I think it's becoming clear that not only did she brings the dragons back from extinction she's about to bring back her family back from almost extinction. To be a Mother of Dragons might imply either multiple births or having multiples, i.e. twins. I'm sure you are all aware of my Pulitzer Prize observation that Dany shares many similarities with Lady Amalthea from The Last Univorn. I created a thread for it but I can't link it right now. Anyhow, Dany like The Last Univorn went on a quest to find her family or in Dany's case to become a Targaryen and at the end Lady Amalthea accomplishes her goals but the experience changes her irrevocable. At there is a bitter sweetness to it that is so lovely. In The Last Univorn the prince goes away because he has responsibilities and Lady Amalthea becomes a Univorn again. However, in asoiaf the prince IS half unicorn so there is a twist. He himself has been irrevocably changed by his experience. Anyhow, there is a lot of bitterness still to come but there is a lot of bitterness now. These two character have lost a great deal already.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 13:26:35 GMT -5
Well how else do you expect us to spend our lunch hour? I just find it funny how fans of pairings like SanSan, Gendrya, or Brienne/Jaime are usually still hopefull for some action between their faves in spite of lack of evidence that that anything will happen or that a lot of screentime will be dedicated to it, but Jon/Dany shippers, who have just gotten five episodes of Jon/Dany content and an implicit promise that their relationship will be central in the final season as well can only think about if and how their faves die. I agree completely. Even before they got together, people speculate they will die. It's funny that a lot of fans are leaning towards tragedy rather than enjoying the cute. I'm optimistic!
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 13:27:38 GMT -5
I've just never been of the theory that Jon and/or Dany will die. I've gone into it before, but GRRM always mentions the aftermath of war and administration. That seems to be what he wants to focus on and I could see him wanting to explore what Jon and Dany do. There's a reason "together" is used so often with Jon/Dany. They are merged now, their future is one. It would be a very good song if half the song is missing. They either both live or both die, there is no going back now. As you say this is about togetherness. I once called the complimentary counterparts and that's what they are without the other the equation is unbalanced. It's something I've wondered about as well. I know Jaime and Cersei think they will die the same day in the book, but I honestly believe that with Jon and Dany, if one dies, they both die. They are yin and yang, it's no longer just one character's story, it's theirs.
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Post by lojzelote on Aug 30, 2017 13:49:16 GMT -5
Why are you guys feeling down? We've just got five episodes of Jon/Dany content with baby foreshadowing! Have I interrupted an obligatory masochism hour or something? Frankly, I think you are worrying over nothing. For years people argumented that her reunion with Drogo and Rhaego signifies her death, although Jon back from the dead to tell us that there is no afterlife. For years people have claimed she will totes die in childbirth, now she will totes die by an arrow. I don't know if she will die or not, but what I know for totes is that she can't die both in childbirth and by arrow, LOL, so there's got to be some BS in all this totes analysis. I'll be honest: I see zero reasons as to why Dany should die and I've never understood why people are searching for anything that could foreshadow her death. I haven't seen this with any other character except Arya. With both of them people take one sentence or one scene and consider it a clear confirmation that the character in question will die. Also - this is not a proof of anything but purely my personal sentiment - I really hate the trope of a dead mother. It's a trope appearing often in fiction, and it's disturbing. Even GRRM participates in this awful trope - and not only with Rhaella, Lyanna, and Joanna. Catelyn and her children are literally the exception proving the rule. Which characters think of their mothers ever? Catelyn has a relationship with her father and uncle, but she hardly even mentions her mother. Ned never ever thinks of his mother, although Lyarra Stark should lay in the crypts next her husband and children. Cersei and Jaime don't think of their mother much either, although they've got to remember her. Brienne's mother conveniently died soon as well. Arianne's mother? Not dead, but completely absent, left for Norvos years ago. Theon and Asha's mother? Allegedly used to be badass, but now she's crazy and Lady Not Appearing. Pretty much all the main characters have complex relationship with their fathers or father figures, but mothers are an idolized pantheon from another sphere that doesn't have any bearing on their children's life. It's like if mothers aren't allowed to have any influence on their children except popping them out. I'd really hate if the same fate befell Daenerys in the end. The theme of being a mother is so strong in her arc - I hope she actually gets to be a mother to her child instead of an idealized heroine from a song that died after pushing it out. Okay, that's it. Rant over. I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable but I find your rant super sexy. Grrrrr. On a positive note, I'll finally be home tomorrow. I've enjoyed my vacation but I'm looking forward to sleeping on my bed. It's a comfy one. I find the trope disturbing on the whole, and what's even worse is that I have never realized the fact that so many mothers are missing until I thought about if there are more characters paralleling Jon, Tyrion, and Dany. Seeing as my own mother is terribly important to me, I just find it sad that apparently mother-child relationships are not worthy of depiction. Most mothers in the text exist literally just because it's a biological neccessity to have a progenitor of female sex. In regards to Daenerys I find it particularly unfulfilling. She wants a family so much, so let's kill her off the moment she gets it, continuing the vicious cycle of motherless children. Besides, how can she make her child her legacy if she's not there to guide it and share her experience? So that's why you haven't been posting that much lately! Where have you been?
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moiaf
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Post by moiaf on Aug 30, 2017 13:57:55 GMT -5
I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable but I find your rant super sexy. Grrrrr. On a positive note, I'll finally be home tomorrow. I've enjoyed my vacation but I'm looking forward to sleeping on my bed. It's a comfy one. I find the trope disturbing on the whole, and what's even worse is that I have never realized the fact that so many mothers are missing until I thought about if there are more characters paralleling Jon, Tyrion, and Dany. Seeing as my own mother is terribly important to me, I just find it sad that apparently mother-child relationships are not worthy of depiction. Most mothers in the text exist literally just because it's a biological neccessity to have a progenitor of female sex. In regards to Daenerys I find it particularly unfulfilling. She wants a family so much, so let's kill her off the moment she gets it, continuing the vicious cycle of motherless children. Besides, how can she make her child her legacy if she's not there to guide it and share her experience? So that's why you haven't been posting that much lately! Where have you been? Been visiting Stockholm and Copenhagen. Good times, I do prefer Stockholm. As to your observation, I agree wholehardedly about the vicious cycle of motherless children which is bizarrely present in asoiaf but also in fiction/fantasy in general.
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Post by moiaf on Aug 30, 2017 14:05:36 GMT -5
It would be a very good song if half the song is missing. They either both live or both die, there is no going back now. As you say this is about togetherness. I once called the complimentary counterparts and that's what they are without the other the equation is unbalanced. It's something I've wondered about as well. I know Jaime and Cersei think they will die the same day in the book, but I honestly believe that with Jon and Dany, if one dies, they both die. They are yin and yang, it's no longer just one character's story, it's theirs. Well, I think there is a parallel there as Dany parallels/juxtaposes Cersei and Jon himself shares parallels with Jaime we see this union was perverse and one hopefully healthy. It's funny because while Cersei and Jaime are twins theirs is not a relationship of equals. While with Dany and Jon that's the foundation of their relationship. On a different note I had a chance to watch the video and the observation people had was taken completely out of context. They clearly did not consider the conversation Jon and Dany were having at the moment. Which was not about children, by the way. They were taking about the fall of House Targaryen. As Dany tells Jon that after the Targaryen lost their dragons they became like everyone else and the she hada Jon the skulll. Jon then tells her she's not like everyone else. What does this mean, I don't know, I'll have to think about it. But it seems to me this is about legacy and the beginning of a new and different Targaryen. I've pondered whether Dany might change her House name and create a new House.
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 30, 2017 14:12:20 GMT -5
I just think about it in the terms of a pre credits recap. Like could I hear it there. Pick whichever quote you want. Recap "you could get shot with an arrow" Then she gets Kennedyed? When I hear them say it I just can't hear it in a recap. They just sound like typical warnings that any character might hear. I also watched they house of the Undying scene again. The turning away from the throne seems right. Though I am surprised she does not recall it when Jon asks her for help or when she is at the wall. Which is like hello look familiar? So so turns away from the throne and heads toward her king with her baby. On a side note her Jason were really good in that scene and I forgot how much she loved Drogo. Anyway that all seems right. She says something that I am curious about or doesn't say really. "You died before I..." Now dreams are mentioned a lot. As in a Dream of spring maybe? Drogo was actually her Undead King for a moment. And of course Jon came back as well. Dany mentions the Prophecy that Miri said. The Prophecy was an answer to a question. When will he return to me? Jon came back from the north after they thought he died, he always comes back. So that seems right or to paraphrase Drogo, I told Death to go fuck himself. Now I think Jon fits in there, but I still think there is a creepy parallel between him and the Night King. Drogo was not the only King we saw holding a baby north of the wall. Jon on the Rock is actually waiting for Dany. Something tells me the Night King is as well but in a bad way, like he makes Littlefingers Stark girl creepy look like a harmless teenage crush. There has got to be a reason the Night King is back. I would also note that I don't know if they can kill him. Maybe, but it's pretty clear he left last time but was not destroyed. What made him leave and end the long night? What brought him back? so to sum up, Arrow = No, and HotU = Possibly all of it happened but there could be more. No baby yet after all. You know with all the talk of arrows I surprised Jon is not insisting she wear armor. Who knows maybe it will be a gift. In the books she does think about armor for the future when the dragons are big enough to ride. She actually mentions she has some beautiful bronze armor that was a gift but that she would prefer steel. I would lose my shit if they put her in black and red armor. Or maybe the show is setting up the armor Gendry will make for her. It's crazy how much the HOTU applies to this season. Snowing in the throne room meaning Winter in King's Landing, perhaps foreshadowing how close the War for the Dawn will come. Turning away from the throne to help fight against the WWs, specifically going north of the Wall. Drogo telling her "maybe I told death to go fuck itself", technically, Jon has done that (not by choice, of course). Dany also pulling away from them shows that she is putting the past behind her for something else. I wasn't fond of the HOTU visions when I first saw them because I loved the book's, but after seeing it come true with Season 7, I absolutely love it. The simple visions turned out not to be so simple. "If I look back I am lost." I think I know what Dany was going to say to Drogo in that scene. She says "I never got to..." And stops short. I think givin the scene she was going to Say "I never got to see our child" or hold. But I am positive it relates to the child. I think most of it is done except for one thing. A little silver haired baby. And the baby will be the first born of the Targaryen/Stark line since Roberts rebellion. And Aunt Sansa can baby sit and Aunt Arya will make sure nothing ever happens to that baby. E ery kid needs a dog to so get a Sandor so the baby grows up knowing how to properly swear. New life in the Stark and Targ houses after all the loss would be a big deal.
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 30, 2017 14:36:00 GMT -5
Yes, this gives me hope, because he's been vocal about how Tolkien didn't tell us how Aragorn and Arwen ruled, just that they ruled wisely. I just know how he likes to jerk the rug out from under us if he thinks we're comfortable with the way things are going. The way I look at that is that he has kept the "shocking" deaths to near the beginning of the story. Notice in the show that there really aren't any Red Wedding style deaths. We had the sept, but this season? How many main characters were killed compared to earlier seasons? The story is different now. The point of those shocking moments was to make us feel like the main characters weren't safe and it worked. But now it's expected and I can't see him ending this journey with death. He said we will have a satisfactory ending and losing Dany and/or Jon isn't that. GRRM isn't big on battles, he's a conscientious objector and that shows up in his AWOIAF book, specifically how the Children and the First Men ended their war. It was through a deal, it was outside of the box and I suspect he will do that again. He likes the politics, the battles are less so for him. Actually he loves big battles and has said as much he just believes and very much prefers they are relegated to movies and TV. He also loves gruesome horror but again books, movies, TV. He has occasionally killed lead characters in his books. But not always and not often. I love Jon but in this series Dany is the symbol of life, she is the fire the life, the mother, and while I know she would sacrifice herself, as would Jon it would be an odd metaphore to kill the representative of life and birth. There is also the oddity of killing all the powerful female leaders off and handing the country to a Male when the women did all the heavy lifting. It just rings an odd note.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 14:40:42 GMT -5
The way I look at that is that he has kept the "shocking" deaths to near the beginning of the story. Notice in the show that there really aren't any Red Wedding style deaths. We had the sept, but this season? How many main characters were killed compared to earlier seasons? The story is different now. The point of those shocking moments was to make us feel like the main characters weren't safe and it worked. But now it's expected and I can't see him ending this journey with death. He said we will have a satisfactory ending and losing Dany and/or Jon isn't that. GRRM isn't big on battles, he's a conscientious objector and that shows up in his AWOIAF book, specifically how the Children and the First Men ended their war. It was through a deal, it was outside of the box and I suspect he will do that again. He likes the politics, the battles are less so for him. Actually he loves big battles and has said as much he just believes and very much prefers they are relegated to movies and TV. He also loves gruesome horror but again books, movies, TV. He has occasionally killed lead characters in his books. But not always and not often. I love Jon but in this series Dany is the symbol of life, she is the fire the life, the mother, and while I know she would sacrifice herself, as would Jon it would be an odd metaphore to kill the representative of life and birth. There is also the oddity of killing all the powerful female leaders off and handing the country to a Male when the women did all the heavy lifting. It just rings an odd note. Despite Jon's death, I think that both Dany and Jon represent life. They are unity and the hope against the dead. Look at what Jon has been pushing in the show? He's the only one who insists that Dany is capable of having a child. That is just as much a symbol of life, offering her hope of creating it. They are complimentary and unified, together. I can't see one dying over the other.
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 30, 2017 16:07:40 GMT -5
I'd really hate if the same fate befell Daenerys in the end. The theme of being a mother is so strong in her arc - I hope she actually gets to be a mother to her child instead of an idealized heroine from a song that died after pushing it out. I think all of us here hope for the same thing. But it's only fair to examine the other potential outcomes. As you said, you, nor anyone here knows for sure the outcome for Daenerys. That doesn't mean people bringing in ideas of what might happen means they think that's totally going to happen. It's speculation. If everyone here thought for certain Daenerys and Jon live through the entire thing, have a child and go on to raise it as the leaders of Westeros, then we'd only have an echo chamber for a forum thread and nothing else to talk about. We could also all be dead wrong. Exploring the possibilities does not need to make anyone 'feel down' as you put it - it simply encourages healthy speculation into the "what ifs" of the story - and isn't that what we've all loved for so long about it? One never can be sure what's going to happen. I do agree with you GRRM has overused the tragic "Motherless child" card a bit too much in the story overall. Sure, death in childbirth was common in medieval times but in Westeros medieval times it seems to be an epidemic! I too would love to see Daenerys beat the odds and be breaker-of-wheels (as if she needs another title) to create a better world for the future of Westeros. I'm just more willing to explore the other alternatives objectively and with an open mind to the possibility. To be fare about the death of the Mothers, he killed a lot of fathers as well. It just they don't die in child birth. For the story Jon, Dany, and Tyrion's mothers had to die, in the case of Jon and Dany both parents had to die. In fact he destroyed all of Danys house. Elia didn't die in child birth nor did cat. He hit the Starks as well with no grand parents. Same for the Lannisters who are either missing or dead. Cersei had kids as well as Lysa. Let's not forget while alive the Unsullied have been through hell and can't have children. Joanna was used to create the Lannister dynamic and is used to emphasize what happened to the family without her. Jaime and Cersei would not of happend under her watch, Tywin would not have been so cruel, Cersei and Tyrion would have a totally different relationship. We see Jaime who when he thinks about his mother or dreams about her really, that he carries a lot of shame and just dreaming about her emphasized this. Gilly is also a mom, and so was Dalla. There is that death or corruption of children with the Night King, who is strangly missing the Night Queen. I don't know why he wants the babies, but it's a dark juxtaposition to Dany. We also meet Kmaege and her daughters, who I personally enjoyed in the books. We also have women dying fighting the war and then characters like Sam still have moms. We have met other Moms as well in the books. Plus we have a good number of female characters. I believe a lot of this is centralize Dany's symbolism as the Mother and will emphasize the birth of her and Jon's child. It's one of the main reasons I think she will live. She lost her first child right about the same time she lost Drogo. Dany also represents a change for women in the world, look how sexist Martin made the slavers. Dany represents many things, so do characters like Arya and Sansa, or Asha/Yara. We also get some crazies male or female, like Joff, Ramsey, Aerys, Jingle Bells, Euron is totally fucked in the head,
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 30, 2017 16:16:49 GMT -5
Actually he loves big battles and has said as much he just believes and very much prefers they are relegated to movies and TV. He also loves gruesome horror but again books, movies, TV. He has occasionally killed lead characters in his books. But not always and not often. I love Jon but in this series Dany is the symbol of life, she is the fire the life, the mother, and while I know she would sacrifice herself, as would Jon it would be an odd metaphore to kill the representative of life and birth. There is also the oddity of killing all the powerful female leaders off and handing the country to a Male when the women did all the heavy lifting. It just rings an odd note. Despite Jon's death, I think that both Dany and Jon represent life. They are unity and the hope against the dead. Look at what Jon has been pushing in the show? He's the only one who insists that Dany is capable of having a child. That is just as much a symbol of life, offering her hope of creating it. They are complimentary and unified, together. I can't see one dying over the other. I like to think of Jon as a defender of life, and yes it takes two to tango. But the mother symbolism is generally tied to life symbolism as is water, which Dany is also strongly connected to. Like Jon got dunked in some water, and Dany bathed in the womb of the world. Dany is called mother, her wedding dress was made of pearls all classic life symbolism. Jon is very much fighting for life, and he has some classic vetility symbolism, but Dany is off the charts.
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