Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 16:30:39 GMT -5
In watching boatsex several times (don't judge me), I swear I've heard dialogue. Thankfully, freefolk seems to have heard it too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/6wywk3/jon_whispering_yeah_and_love_during_boatsex_46/
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lojzelote
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Post by lojzelote on Aug 30, 2017 17:03:38 GMT -5
I think all of us here hope for the same thing. But it's only fair to examine the other potential outcomes. As you said, you, nor anyone here knows for sure the outcome for Daenerys. That doesn't mean people bringing in ideas of what might happen means they think that's totally going to happen. It's speculation. If everyone here thought for certain Daenerys and Jon live through the entire thing, have a child and go on to raise it as the leaders of Westeros, then we'd only have an echo chamber for a forum thread and nothing else to talk about. We could also all be dead wrong. Exploring the possibilities does not need to make anyone 'feel down' as you put it - it simply encourages healthy speculation into the "what ifs" of the story - and isn't that what we've all loved for so long about it? One never can be sure what's going to happen. I do agree with you GRRM has overused the tragic "Motherless child" card a bit too much in the story overall. Sure, death in childbirth was common in medieval times but in Westeros medieval times it seems to be an epidemic! I too would love to see Daenerys beat the odds and be breaker-of-wheels (as if she needs another title) to create a better world for the future of Westeros. I'm just more willing to explore the other alternatives objectively and with an open mind to the possibility. To be fare about the death of the Mothers, he killed a lot of fathers as well. It just they don't die in child birth. For the story Jon, Dany, and Tyrion's mothers had to die, in the case of Jon and Dany both parents had to die. In fact he destroyed all of Danys house. Elia didn't die in child birth nor did cat. He hit the Starks as well with no grand parents. Same for the Lannisters who are either missing or dead. Cersei had kids as well as Lysa. Let's not forget while alive the Unsullied have been through hell and can't have children. Joanna was used to create the Lannister dynamic and is used to emphasize what happened to the family without her. Jaime and Cersei would not of happend under her watch, Tywin would not have been so cruel, Cersei and Tyrion would have a totally different relationship. We see Jaime who when he thinks about his mother or dreams about her really, that he carries a lot of shame and just dreaming about her emphasized this. Gilly is also a mom, and so was Dalla. There is that death or corruption of children with the Night King, who is strangly missing the Night Queen. I don't know why he wants the babies, but it's a dark juxtaposition to Dany. We also meet Kmaege and her daughters, who I personally enjoyed in the books. We also have women dying fighting the war and then characters like Sam still have moms. We have met other Moms as well in the books. Plus we have a good number of female characters. I believe a lot of this is centralize Dany's symbolism as the Mother and will emphasize the birth of her and Jon's child. It's one of the main reasons I think she will live. She lost her first child right about the same time she lost Drogo. Dany also represents a change for women in the world, look how sexist Martin made the slavers. Dany represents many things, so do characters like Arya and Sansa, or Asha/Yara. We also get some crazies male or female, like Joff, Ramsey, Aerys, Jingle Bells, Euron is totally fucked in the head, The point is that fathers actually play a role in their children's life. Mothers not so much. But it's not only about motherhood. Take Dany's parents: both of them are missing in her life, but while Aerys has a certain narrative presence and is important to his daughter's arc, Rhaella is a non-entity. All we know about her that she was probably kinder than her husband, that she suffered a lot because of him, and that she was in love with a landed knight. We have not got near enough information to picture Rhaella as a living, breathing person. We have no idea of what she thought of her son's life choices. We have no idea what she thought of Tywin Lannister. We have no idea if she urged Rhaegar to dispose of his father. We have no idea if she believed in the prophecy of the promised prince. We have no idea if she was a passionate reader. We don't know if she and Rhaegar were close. We don't know her. I'm far from the only person noticing this trend with female characters. GRRM can write interesting, complex female characters if he chooses to. But he does not always make that choice. P.S.: I've remembered another dead mother that doesn't matter. Egg's mother Dyanna Dayne. I wonder what was the point of killing her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 18:18:29 GMT -5
I've just never been of the theory that Jon and/or Dany will die. I've gone into it before, but GRRM always mentions the aftermath of war and administration. That seems to be what he wants to focus on and I could see him wanting to explore what Jon and Dany do. There's a reason "together" is used so often with Jon/Dany. They are merged now, their future is one. It would be interesting if he set up another Jaehaerys/Alysanne situation. They were arguably the best rulers Westeros ever had, and it was very much about co-ruling.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 18:31:01 GMT -5
I've just never been of the theory that Jon and/or Dany will die. I've gone into it before, but GRRM always mentions the aftermath of war and administration. That seems to be what he wants to focus on and I could see him wanting to explore what Jon and Dany do. There's a reason "together" is used so often with Jon/Dany. They are merged now, their future is one. It would be interesting if he set up another Jaehaerys/Alysanne situation. They were arguably the best rulers Westeros ever had, and it was very much about co-ruling. That's what I've assumed. Much like Aragorn, Jon and Dany are good rulers. It's just the choices they have to make in the aftermath of the wars.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Aug 30, 2017 18:38:59 GMT -5
I think it all goes back to the title of the series, 'A Song of Ice and Fire'. Normally fire melts ice, which extinguishes fire. Jon and Dany are two sides of the coin, and the story is about their love. We've gotten that confirmation. The epic has to carry through to the end what ever that might be. There are examples to argue either way, and we are light years beyond the written words, so these next 6 episodes might be the only resolution we ever get. The only guarantee we have is that not everyone will be happy no matter what way they go.
So I guess I will bask in the afterglow and start keeping an eye out for photos and news for season 8. I don't want to be completely spoiled, but I do like enough to start thinking about possibilities. That's the great thing about the unknown, it gives us endless possibilities.
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milyagaryen
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Post by milyagaryen on Aug 30, 2017 18:47:51 GMT -5
To be fare about the death of the Mothers, he killed a lot of fathers as well. It just they don't die in child birth. For the story Jon, Dany, and Tyrion's mothers had to die, in the case of Jon and Dany both parents had to die. In fact he destroyed all of Danys house. Elia didn't die in child birth nor did cat. He hit the Starks as well with no grand parents. Same for the Lannisters who are either missing or dead. Cersei had kids as well as Lysa. Let's not forget while alive the Unsullied have been through hell and can't have children. Joanna was used to create the Lannister dynamic and is used to emphasize what happened to the family without her. Jaime and Cersei would not of happend under her watch, Tywin would not have been so cruel, Cersei and Tyrion would have a totally different relationship. We see Jaime who when he thinks about his mother or dreams about her really, that he carries a lot of shame and just dreaming about her emphasized this. Gilly is also a mom, and so was Dalla. There is that death or corruption of children with the Night King, who is strangly missing the Night Queen. I don't know why he wants the babies, but it's a dark juxtaposition to Dany. We also meet Kmaege and her daughters, who I personally enjoyed in the books. We also have women dying fighting the war and then characters like Sam still have moms. We have met other Moms as well in the books. Plus we have a good number of female characters. I believe a lot of this is centralize Dany's symbolism as the Mother and will emphasize the birth of her and Jon's child. It's one of the main reasons I think she will live. She lost her first child right about the same time she lost Drogo. Dany also represents a change for women in the world, look how sexist Martin made the slavers. Dany represents many things, so do characters like Arya and Sansa, or Asha/Yara. We also get some crazies male or female, like Joff, Ramsey, Aerys, Jingle Bells, Euron is totally fucked in the head, The point is that fathers actually play a role in their children's life. Mothers not so much. But it's not only about motherhood. Take Dany's parents: both of them are missing in her life, but while Aerys has a certain narrative presence and is important to his daughter's arc, Rhaella is a non-entity. All we know about her that she was probably kinder than her husband, that she suffered a lot because of him, and that she was in love with a landed knight. We have not got near enough information to picture Rhaella as a living, breathing person. We have no idea of what she thought of her son's life choices. We have no idea what she thought of Tywin Lannister. We have no idea if she urged Rhaegar to dispose of his father. We have no idea if she believed in the prophecy of the promised prince. We have no idea if she was a passionate reader. We don't know if she and Rhaegar were close. We don't know her. I'm far from the only person noticing this trend with female characters. GRRM can write interesting, complex female characters if he chooses to. But he does not always make that choice. P.S.: I've remembered another dead mother that doesn't matter. Egg's mother Dyanna Dayne. I wonder what was the point of killing her. When you spell it all out like that, it's pretty bad. I also saw a tv reviewer the other day mention that they felt sorry for Catlyn watching episode 7 because the kids always talked about missing their father, but not her. Thanks for shifting the mood! We did all get a bit glum there. Here is a new Jonerys video by one of the video editors who did Jonerys videos pre-season 7 (the So Far one). It's pretty good!
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dje
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Post by dje on Aug 30, 2017 20:03:57 GMT -5
I can never feel bad for Catelyn, for me, she's one of the most awful characters in the series
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 20:09:57 GMT -5
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sercreighton
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 30, 2017 20:16:48 GMT -5
To be fare about the death of the Mothers, he killed a lot of fathers as well. It The point is that fathers actually play a role in their children's life. Mothers not so much. But it's not only about motherhood. Take Dany's parents: both of them are missing in her life, but while Aerys has a certain narrative presence and is important to his daughter's arc, Rhaella is a non-entity. All we know about her that she was probably kinder than her husband, that she suffered a lot because of him, and that she was in love with a landed knight. We have not got near enough information to picture Rhaella as a living, breathing person. We have no idea of what she thought of her son's life choices. We have no idea what she thought of Tywin Lannister. We have no idea if she urged Rhaegar to dispose of his father. We have no idea if she believed in the prophecy of the promised prince. We have no idea if she was a passionate reader. We don't know if she and Rhaegar were close. We don't know her. I'm far from the only person noticing this trend with female characters. GRRM can write interesting, complex female characters if he chooses to. But he does not always make that choice. P.S.: I've remembered another dead mother that doesn't matter. Egg's mother Dyanna Dayne. I wonder what was the point of killing her. Well there are a few things here, one is several of these characters are tied to certain secret plots. While the show is well ahead of Martin some of these plots are about characters you are not suppose to know a lot about yet. Lyanna, Rhaelle, Elia, Joanna, and Ashara, he has two books left. Dayana Dayne is tied to the Dunk and Egg series which is not even close to being finished, then you have Fire and Blood a History of the Targayen Family in Westeros. Who knows who you will meet in the She Wolves of Winterfell. The Dorne story is just starting. Then there are characters you will probably not find out much about but may get a little more depth. Like the Millers wife. Or maybe lady Eastermont. Olenna is a mother, Cersei is a mother, Cat is a mother, Gilly, etc. And I am sure if you look you will find other living Mothers, and other even famous mothers. I don't want to go through every single house and pick out every mother and father in background characters and see how much depth they had and call Martin a serial mom killer because people don't feel lady Eastermont is getting enough screen time. I know may favorite characters are Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya, I pretty much like all of them though. There are things I would like to know about to like house Dayne but that is one of those things Martin is keeping tight to his chest. I like the series I like the Characters, I am not counting words or how many male or female characters there are and who gets the most time. I have seen people for years want more characters to get more time and more insight. Ashara, Lyanna, Rhaegar, House Dayne, are cheif among them. Probably throw in Elia and Joanna as well. But when people start Going why wasn't the Millers wife flushed out more or why is she dead? I feel like it's a mix of wanting to know things they are not meant to know yet, and nit picking in some cases. There are thousands of characters and names in the series. We will not get deep details about all of them. We have three POV moms I do count Dany don't care she is mom, if Ashara is on the list so is Dany. Cat out lived Ned by a wide Margin and played an even bigger role and Starks make up 5 of the 12 primary POV's. The other big family is run by Cersei and they account for 3 POV's and some of the major non POV characters like Tywin and Joff. Dany is the head of her house and influence the entire world. I don't know why all the characters in past died, I have no idea why Dyanna died or what her influence on egg or her other children was. I do know Egg is nothing like his father. I know the mad King had little influence on who Dany is just like her mother didn't, and her brothers influence was that she did not want to be like him. Dany is largely self made in every aspect and has tried to model herself after her brother Rhaegar to some extent of what she thinks he was and she knows very little about him. I know Martin is far behind the show and we will more than likely get much more depth than the show on Lyanna, Ashara, Elia, and probably Joanna and Rhealle. You know we can make a list of all the fathers and mothers that died as well and it's going to be very long. You can start with Robert and Ned who's counter parts outlived them. Lyanna outlived Rhaegar, so did Elia. Ashara is a mystery, she is suppose to be a mystery. Though she did not die giving birth. We are not sure what happened but she out lived Arthur, heck the entire Dayne family is down to 2 people. He's killing moms? He is killing dads kids, anything that moves. who knows what happened to the Millers wife? we don't even know how she died. Lots of dead period. We got some moms though like the Princess and the Queen, and if they ignore the characters that are alive like Cersei's lover who is a mother as well. Then you will find what you are looking for. If you look for dead moms you will find them. If you look for dads, you will find them. Dead kids? Them too. What is with all the dead kings?
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charliexcx
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Post by charliexcx on Aug 30, 2017 20:35:37 GMT -5
Love this scene. It's safe to say everyone in the room could pick up the tension. The look on Jorah's face at the end And there goes that emphasis on the word together again.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 20:57:08 GMT -5
Love this scene. It's safe to say everyone in the room could pick up the tension. The look on Jorah's face at the end And there goes that emphasis on the word together again. Everyone in that room had to know what was going to happen. It was like a neon sign was blinking above them. "DTF."
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Envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 30, 2017 21:06:04 GMT -5
Here it is Lils! Zurik23 put this one out today. All about Jon and Daenerys, Ice and Fire, and all the great parallels they've experienced in their lives leading up to this union. It's beautiful.
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 21:13:52 GMT -5
Here it is Lils ! Zurik23 put this one out today. All about Jon and Daenerys, Ice and Fire, and all the great parallels they've experienced in their lives leading up to this union. It's beautiful. FINALLY!!!I knew that they would make a video for Jonerys, considering last year they did a video having edits that involved the leaks. They predicted a baby way before the show hammered us with the idea.
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charliexcx
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Post by charliexcx on Aug 30, 2017 21:25:14 GMT -5
Saw somewhere on tumblr earlier today that in the book, The World Of Ice and Fire, they had Art of Jon and Dany towards the end of the book. I never noticed that before and I looked today at my copy and there they are. I don't think any other characters from the books/show have any art in this book. This book came out in 2014 I believe. The signs were just always there for these two......
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Lils
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Post by Lils on Aug 30, 2017 21:28:35 GMT -5
Saw somewhere on tumblr earlier today that in the book, The World Of Ice and Fire, they had Art of Jon and Dany towards the end of the book. I never noticed that before and I looked today at my copy and there they are. I don't think any other characters from the books/show have any art in this book. This book came out in 2014 I believe. The signs were just always there for these two...... IT'S THE SHIP THAT WAS PROMISED!!!
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