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Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
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Post by Envie on Aug 13, 2017 23:17:07 GMT -5
He may have cast a pebble into the lake and started some ripples, but he was not the lake, life is the lake. I won't give him credit for Dany waking the dragons, or Jon being man enough to try to save the world. This is exactly the sort of metaphor I was looking for but couldn't find to describe why Rhaegar is a compelling (and ambiguous) character.
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Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
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Post by Envie on Aug 13, 2017 23:20:19 GMT -5
It might make for some interesting campfire stories north of the wall between the Hound, Gendry and Jon lol This is funny to think about considering the torment Gendry, Arya and crew went through before the group was broken up. Gendry probably won't tell Jon he thought "Arry" was a boy and he pissed in front of her though.
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moiaf
Mother of Dragons
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Post by moiaf on Aug 13, 2017 23:24:41 GMT -5
I liked that when Dany and Jon were discussing the battle and the men who died, Dany made sure to point out the men who died in the BotB. War is war, men die.
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Maesteress
Drogon
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Post by Maesteress on Aug 13, 2017 23:28:14 GMT -5
The dragon CGI in this episode was unbelievable. When Drogon just flies away from Dany and Jon in that (awesome) scene where he and Drogon bond, after she dismounts, it's flawless, I guess this is one of the advantages of the shorter season - lots more dragons. Although its looking like we aren't going to get any Ghost this season.....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 0:09:00 GMT -5
It took 7 seasons but Jorah's new duds are pretty sweet.
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milyagaryen
Viserion
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Post by milyagaryen on Aug 14, 2017 0:18:15 GMT -5
I was a bit worried about how the Tarly scene would play out, but I thought it was really well done. At the end of the day, we should question whether it was the right thing to do, in the same way we should question whether any of the executions we have witnessed were right. Ned and the night's watch man in ep 1, Robb and Karstark, Theon and Rodrik, Jon and Slynt, Jon and Olly.
I think this was no worse than the "best" of any of those previous executions. The Tarlys had a clear choice and they made it knowing the consequences. Daenerys didn't appear to get any satisfaction from it and it was over in seconds. I really liked her stating her name and the sentence, a good callback to Ned and the Starks.
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StarkL
Rhaegal
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Post by StarkL on Aug 14, 2017 0:19:51 GMT -5
I liked that when Dany and Jon were discussing the battle and the men who died, Dany made sure to point out the men who died in the BotB. War is war, men die. I liked that too and Jon actually agrees with her.
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lordcarson
Moondancer
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Post by lordcarson on Aug 14, 2017 0:28:38 GMT -5
Surprised nobody has mentioned one of the most haunting scenes the show has done so far. Tyrion walking though the ash and utter destruction that he helped bring here was chilling. The cinematography was just beautiful and really shows how dangerous these dragons can be.
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sercreighton
Silverwing
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 14, 2017 0:33:57 GMT -5
Depends what he was thinking. He may have been right, but that does not mean everything he did was right. Martin has always loved the law of unintended consequences. Maybe he planned for Jon maybe not, maybe he thought it would be a girl. He thought his child might save the world seems or three of his children. Or something, he also thought he was the Prince. In chasing after Lyanna he accidently gave the world the the mother of Dragons. I don't think he meant to do that, but his possible savior he thought he was making seems to need a little help from the law of unintended consequences, aka Dany. It's a bit of theme with her, just ask the Dthraki and the slavers. I know what will scare her off, let's kill a bunch of kids. Ooops. Sort of this is what I'm trying to get at. I think his and his fathers action destabilized Weateros to the point where they probably won't be united the way they should in order to fight the Others. His actions created a lot of problems, there is no question to that. But I can't blame him for certain choices other people made long after his death, just as I won't give him credit for the choices Jon and Dany made their lives. We know he didn't mean for all this crazy to happen. I think he wanted to do good and via the Butterfly effect probably suceeded to an extent. I think in the end he got what he was looking for but never meant for it to happen this way. I think, and I am not certain that he thought he would have a daughter with Lyanna, end the rebellion, dethrone his father and raise his kids to rule Westeros. That Aegon would be the prince, that he would wake the dragons, and that his children would lead westeros against the Others. But he was wrong, the prophecy happened not because of him but in spite of him. He essentially wrecked a train and Dany and Jon were born out of the ruin. He had a big impact, but he never intended to crash the train in the first place. Never the less the train crashed. In this case his father had as much to do with it if not more. The father of Dany, the one who caused the war. I could say I don't blame him for his father but in this case he knew he was made and he let him drive the train anyway, or keep driving really. There is no Jon without Aerys or Dany or Rhaegar. If you do it long enough the butterfly will fly you back to the first monkey who drew on a wall. That's why I don't really give Aerys or Rhaegar credit. Jon and Dany have their own choices. What was it Jon said about Dragons to Dany? I never thought I would see a dragon, no one did. The people that follow you know that you made something impossible happen. Maybe that helps them believe you can make other impossible things happen. Build a better world than the shot one they live in. Rhaegar and Aerys added to the shit, their kids are the ones cleaning it up. It's not about intention, intentions often go awry. It's about their actions, it's not about what we say we are going to do, or want to do, it's about what you do. I think that's essentially what you're getting at. it's hard to dislike someone with good intentions, but to quote Yoda, " always the future with this one, the horizon, never his mind on where he was, what he was doing."
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Post by King Tommen on Aug 14, 2017 0:35:14 GMT -5
They have the potential of an Arya/Lyanna Mormont scene sitting RIGHT THERE and they have yet to pull the trigger. Let's make this happen soon fellas...
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Post by King Tommen on Aug 14, 2017 0:36:27 GMT -5
Tormund hoping that Jon had brought Brienne on the trip was also an episode highlight.
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sercreighton
Silverwing
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Post by sercreighton on Aug 14, 2017 0:41:02 GMT -5
He may have cast a pebble into the lake and started some ripples, but he was not the lake, life is the lake. I won't give him credit for Dany waking the dragons, or Jon being man enough to try to save the world. This is exactly the sort of metaphor I was looking for but couldn't find to describe why Rhaegar is a compelling (and ambiguous) character. He is compelling, so is the mad King. Most of the characters really, some of us can't get enough.
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konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 14, 2017 0:46:42 GMT -5
Tormund hoping that Jon had brought Brienne on the trip was also an episode highlight. Which was really an oversight on Jon's part. Oathkeeper would come in handy up there.
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konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
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Post by konradsmith on Aug 14, 2017 1:02:05 GMT -5
Rewatching.
The callbacks in this show are unreal. Arya finds the scroll in a slit in LF's mattress. How does she know to search for one? Sansa said in 310 that Arya used to put sheep dung in her mattress through a similar little slit. "Sheep-shift". And now we have Arya falling for LF's sheep-shift.
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Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
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Post by Envie on Aug 14, 2017 1:23:54 GMT -5
I feel like she's just kind of sitting around plotting without really getting much meaty scenes to work this. Lena killed the scene in the dungeon, but the rest of Cersei's scenes are just kind of "she says something evil, jaime tries to reason with her, she rolls her eyes." They're good scenes, they just kind of feel like more of the same. I just did a re-watch and I couldn't disagree more! I thought Cersei's scenes were very powerful. She's so composed and calculated now, it's scary. That long pause and steely stare she gives Jaime before he admits he met with Tyrion, which we then find out she knew about all along anyways... that was awesome and so perfectly Cersei! She waited to see if Jaime would lie to her or what he was going to do with Tyrion. Only to find out as she embraces him at the end that she considers him as much a traitor as Bronn for setting it up. That was intense!
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