TheMadQueen
Silverwing
@themadqueen
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 3,719
inherit
120
0
Dec 1, 2023 9:19:43 GMT -5
3,719
TheMadQueen
2,704
Mar 9, 2017 21:37:29 GMT -5
March 2017
themadqueen
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 13, 2017 22:40:24 GMT -5
The fact that Sansa deep down wants to be QITN doesn't mean that she can't still be loyal to Jon. I think it's natural to have Sansa see Jon be King and think she could do it, too. That's human nature as far as I'm concerned. We all do it. It's not like its treason or something, it's just think. Sansa can innocently daydream about being Queen of the North without like plotting against Jon or something.
|
|
StarkL
Rhaegal
@starkl
Posts: 301
Likes: 408
inherit
108
0
Aug 4, 2019 16:18:52 GMT -5
408
StarkL
301
Dec 22, 2016 7:51:06 GMT -5
December 2016
starkl
|
Post by StarkL on Aug 13, 2017 22:40:41 GMT -5
The fact that Sansa deep down wants to be QITN doesn't mean that she can't still be loyal to Jon. Yes, but Arya is overprotective of Jon, her overreaction is expected.
|
|
TheMadQueen
Silverwing
@themadqueen
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 3,719
inherit
120
0
Dec 1, 2023 9:19:43 GMT -5
3,719
TheMadQueen
2,704
Mar 9, 2017 21:37:29 GMT -5
March 2017
themadqueen
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 13, 2017 22:41:59 GMT -5
I definitely got his struggle in this episode but then that baby pulled him in. That's always weird to me considering he was so indifferent to his kids in the books. He did have that moment where he was like "I'll give Cersei another child and this time I'll hold it" but to me it's just weird to see Jaime being so into his children. Maybe because he wasn't very paternal with his other children, he thinks he'll compensate by being a loving father to this one? Maybe? I think so. This is the first time he can actually say he's the father, so that changes the whole dynamic completely. He could never be fatherly to his other children because he couldn't be their father. IIRC in the books Cersei won't even let him hold the babies lest someone become suspicious.
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Aug 13, 2017 22:44:38 GMT -5
I think Jaime is really struggling with it. Like everyone's telling him how much she sucks and I think he obviously knows it too, but he's still in love for her, and she just went and sucked him (heh) back in with her baby mama drama. He's torn between his brain and his heart (or at least his dick). It's interesting and all but I'm ready for it to be done. Jaime doesn't fit in in KL and Cersei needs to be in full evil queen mode, not smiling and hugging people. I definitely got his struggle in this episode but then that baby pulled him in. That's always weird to me considering he was so indifferent to his kids in the books. He did have that moment where he was like "I'll give Cersei another child and this time I'll hold it" but to me it's just weird to see Jaime being so into his children. I honestly was NOT looking forward to this storyline since many of us have known this from spoilers/leaks. But I think it's ok for the purpose it serves, to keep Jaime conflicted yet again. That's his whole theme... completely conflicted between his loyalty and love for Cersei and what he knows in his heart is the 'right' thing to do. For the first time, he can actually claim a child as his own instead of hiding on the sidelines watching it being raised as the child of another man which had to be really brutal to endure especially as much shit as Robert gave Jaime and how much Jaime hated him.
|
|
day dreamer
Syrax
The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.
@queencarol
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 3,653
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Nominee
inherit
68
0
Jun 11, 2020 21:57:01 GMT -5
3,653
day dreamer
The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.
2,164
Jul 12, 2016 16:29:36 GMT -5
July 2016
queencarol
1 Time Nominee
|
Post by day dreamer on Aug 13, 2017 22:46:35 GMT -5
I definitely got his struggle in this episode but then that baby pulled him in. That's always weird to me considering he was so indifferent to his kids in the books. He did have that moment where he was like "I'll give Cersei another child and this time I'll hold it" but to me it's just weird to see Jaime being so into his children. I honestly was NOT looking forward to this storyline since many of us have known this from spoilers/leaks. But I think it's ok for the purpose it serves, to keep Jaime conflicted yet again. That's his whole theme... completely conflicted between his loyalty and love for Cersei and what he knows in his heart is the 'right' thing to do. For the first time, he can actually claim a child as his own instead of hiding on the sidelines watching it being raised as the child of another man which had to be really brutal to endure especially as much shit as Robert gave Jaime and how much Jaime hated him. I just find Jaime's story in general so frustrating as a book reader because he's one of my favorite characters and is already over Cersei. It's hard to sit here and watch this.
|
|
TheMadQueen
Silverwing
@themadqueen
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 3,719
inherit
120
0
Dec 1, 2023 9:19:43 GMT -5
3,719
TheMadQueen
2,704
Mar 9, 2017 21:37:29 GMT -5
March 2017
themadqueen
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 13, 2017 22:48:20 GMT -5
Also I wish we actually got to see Cersei being Queen. We've seen her be all about the war and plotting behind closed doors and torturing people in dungeons, but she hasn't really been shown as any time of actual present ruler. Maybe that's supposed to be the point, is that she doesn't actually care about the responsibility of being a ruler, but idk. I would have like a scene or two of her holding court, just like we were shown with Joffrey and Dany. See her reactions to her supplicants, and their reactions to her.
The closest we got was her Trump speech to the Lords of the Reach in 702, but that was like 45 seconds long lol.
|
|
konradsmith
Investigative Reporter
@konradsmith
Posts: 5,588
Likes: 10,429
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
#005f04
8
0
1
Oct 20, 2022 4:05:45 GMT -5
10,429
konradsmith
5,588
Jun 21, 2016 15:45:28 GMT -5
June 2016
konradsmith
1 Time Winner
|
Post by konradsmith on Aug 13, 2017 22:52:17 GMT -5
For once they didn't make us wait for this.
|
|
Envie
Vhagar
"If I look back I am lost."
@envie
Posts: 5,270
Likes: 8,484
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Winner
inherit
4
0
Jul 4, 2019 18:53:32 GMT -5
8,484
Envie
"If I look back I am lost."
5,270
Jun 21, 2016 11:00:44 GMT -5
June 2016
envie
1 Time Winner
|
Post by Envie on Aug 13, 2017 22:57:42 GMT -5
I just find Jaime's story in general so frustrating as a book reader because he's one of my favorite characters and is already over Cersei. It's hard to sit here and watch this. Oh I agree, it's frustrating as hell to watch him going through this prolonged relationship with Cersei when in the books he's already given up on her back when she was pleading for him to come back after the High Sparrow took over and she was on trial. I know they're doing this because otherwise Cersei doesn't have much material to get her through until Season 8 and clearly they want her end to be a big one. Already some of the Cersei fans here in our group are complaining she's not getting enough good material. I knew that was coming a long time ago. This is a holding pattern we've seen other characters (like Jaime) go through while other stories are catching up and taking all the time/scenes. If Jaime had already left by the start of Season 7, then there would be a lot less King's Landing tension so I understand why they've delayed it.
|
|
day dreamer
Syrax
The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.
@queencarol
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 3,653
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Nominee
inherit
68
0
Jun 11, 2020 21:57:01 GMT -5
3,653
day dreamer
The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.
2,164
Jul 12, 2016 16:29:36 GMT -5
July 2016
queencarol
1 Time Nominee
|
Post by day dreamer on Aug 13, 2017 23:02:38 GMT -5
They didn't mention Gendry knowing Arya in the Inside the Episode either. Why are they avoiding this?
|
|
sercreighton
Silverwing
@sercreighton
Posts: 2,465
Likes: 2,439
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 3 Time Nominee
inherit
35
0
Sept 24, 2019 3:37:33 GMT -5
2,439
sercreighton
2,465
Jun 28, 2016 17:04:35 GMT -5
June 2016
sercreighton
3 Time Nominee
|
Post by sercreighton on Aug 13, 2017 23:03:55 GMT -5
But he was right... No Jon= everyone fucking dies. He was. Without him, a lot of these pieces wouldn't have fallen into place. I don't know. Elia had it hard and it's heartbreaking how she died. But some characters get a pass for falling in love, but I've never really seen Rhaegar given a pass. I'm quite serious when I say that I never see him defended or liked. But what he did is equivalent to what Robb did. He fell in love with another woman and set aside the person he was promised to. Betrothal was tantamount to marriage. In Medieval society, it was a marriage. But Robb is viewed sympathetically because why? It's not fair to call one a prick and then give the other a pass. Robb and Rhaegar are sympathetic to me. If you're not happy with someone, you're not happy. Isn't it worse to make someone suffer by staying in a marriage without happiness? Unhappy marriages have a way of deteriorating to the point where none of the good memories are left. That to me is more tragic. Who said it was about love? Weather he was or wasn't, he had other actions. I like to hold things to within reason, and Rhaegar is sort of this big question mark. So I will focus on what we know. As a child Rhaegar was very smart, a genius in most things he put his mind too. He reads a scroll of something that is related to long night. Now that's an assumption but I think enough evidence points to this. He decides he must be a warrior, he comes to believe he is the Prince that was promised. This relates to a prophecy about his father and mother. Jenny and the Ghost of Highheart. Later he changes his mind. I believe this occures at the tourney of Lannisport, again an assumption but given his obbsession with prophecy I think he went to Maggy the frog and got some bad news. She may have said something similar to what she told Cersei that would effect his life both then and in the future. Rhaegar Marries a Sun, I don't think this was an accident. Later he holds a tourney at HH backed by someone. I think it was Tywin, as Rhaegar sets to remove is mentally ill father from the throne. Something changes at that tourney. There is only one account of any interaction between him and Lyanna. Rides past his pregnant wife and gives Lyanna the blue roses. Bit of a dick move, but the question is why? This mid 20's man saw a 13 year old girl and was just swept away? He returns home, and his wife had a child Aegon. Who Rhaegar names the Prince that was promised. Ooooh but in that moment something changed. Perhaps he saw something, perhaps a recollection. The Dragon has three heads, there must be another. So still very interested in prophecy he takes off and will not be seen again for some time. That is when he makes off with Lyanna. Is this love or prophecy? Seems very prophecy related. Later he will return, he meant to remove his father. Robert kills him and it's his last word that people focus on, Lyanna. But Lyanna what? What was he trying to relate. This is man who's entire life was based around prophecy, were his last words about love? Or was his tragedy about the prophecy. He had been wrong more than once. He was the prince, then Aegon was the prince. But only one Targaryen woke the dragons fron stone. A uninteded consequence of the war. A Princess, a princess that would later see him in a vision. Did Rhaegar save the world by accident? Maybe. I'm glad we have Jon, and I am glad Ned was his Daddy. Jon is who he is because of Ned, and his family, and Jeor and all the others in his life. Dany is who she is because of her life as well, and Rhaegar had little to do with making them who they are. He may have cast a pebble into the lake and started some ripples, but he was not the lake, life is the lake. I won't give him credit for Dany waking the dragons, or Jon being man enough to try to save the world. was it for love and not prophecy? It was prophecy he spoke of, another child he had to have and a wife that could no longer have children. Love seems awfully convienant where Lyanna is concerned. Did he want to save the world? I think so. Did his actions lead to an unintended result that might? More than likely. Do I misunderstand him? Probably not, obbsession with prophecy is not a good thing, Mel is the prime example. Lots of people died for her to be wrong. But an unintended result occured she met Jon and sent Jon to Dany. She was wrong about the prince too. Her and Rhaegar have a lot in common. Was she right? No, but she wanted to save the world and the prophecy happened without her. Same for Rhaegar. She would do a lot to make the prophecy happen,cake Lightbringer, war, burning people. Wonder what Rhaegar did?
|
|
TheMadQueen
Silverwing
@themadqueen
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 3,719
inherit
120
0
Dec 1, 2023 9:19:43 GMT -5
3,719
TheMadQueen
2,704
Mar 9, 2017 21:37:29 GMT -5
March 2017
themadqueen
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 13, 2017 23:07:06 GMT -5
I just find Jaime's story in general so frustrating as a book reader because he's one of my favorite characters and is already over Cersei. It's hard to sit here and watch this. Oh I agree, it's frustrating as hell to watch him going through this prolonged relationship with Cersei when in the books he's already given up on her back when she was pleading for him to come back after the High Sparrow took over and she was on trial. I know they're doing this because otherwise Cersei doesn't have much material to get her through until Season 8 and clearly they want her end to be a big one. Already some of the Cersei fans here in our group are complaining she's not getting enough good material. I knew that was coming a long time ago. This is a holding pattern we've seen other characters (like Jaime) go through while other stories are catching up and taking all the time/scenes. If Jaime had already left by the start of Season 7, then there would be a lot less King's Landing tension so I understand why they've delayed it. I feel like she's just kind of sitting around plotting without really getting much meaty scenes to work this. Lena killed the scene in the dungeon, but the rest of Cersei's scenes are just kind of "she says something evil, jaime tries to reason with her, she rolls her eyes." They're good scenes, they just kind of feel like more of the same. I actually don't think Jaime was necessary to keep KL interesting and tense tbh. They could have brought in the Golden Company sooner, so she has one of their captains or something to interact with. Euron could actually be seen in the Red Keep and he could annoy her. They should have given her a small council to spar with. But alas, what we got is what we got and it's still pretty good.
|
|
Maesteress
Drogon
@maesteress
Posts: 500
Likes: 712
inherit
49
0
May 31, 2019 10:42:39 GMT -5
712
Maesteress
500
Jul 10, 2016 19:05:51 GMT -5
July 2016
maesteress
|
Post by Maesteress on Aug 13, 2017 23:09:44 GMT -5
They didn't mention Gendry knowing Arya in the Inside the Episode either. It might make for some interesting campfire stories north of the wall between the Hound, Gendry and Jon lol Something bothering me about this episode is when Sam says to the Maesters that no one has survived beyond the wall ever and yet a "crippled boy" has....who are the Wildings? Chopped liver? hey were there quite some time and knew about the WWs before they got the hell out. And Craster too. (yeah, yeah, I know I'm letting semantics get to me at this point, but I don't like lazy writing...and it's usually rare with D&D...so when it happens, it really sticks out.)
|
|
mattpeto
Rhaegal
@mattpeto
Posts: 429
Likes: 705
inherit
37
0
Apr 19, 2024 18:24:06 GMT -5
705
mattpeto
429
Jun 30, 2016 15:37:43 GMT -5
June 2016
mattpeto
|
Post by mattpeto on Aug 13, 2017 23:11:45 GMT -5
I liked this episode more than most of you I think. It feels like a worthy a build up to the climax of the season.
Just a few notes:
-I hate the Northern conflict, but I understand why it's there. I thought Sansa did a pretty good job having Jon's back there and Arya was in the wrong. Did Glover really say "I'll follow you Sansa", what a fucking turncloak, if so... -In a world where arranged marriage is the norm, I'm kind of sensitive to Rhaegar and Robb a little bit more than most of you. Cersei can fuck her brother and we are mostly okay with it, but Rhaegar can't fall in love with somebody else? I'm not saying what he did was right, but love is a little bit more complicated equating with honor. Nobody said Rhaegar had Ned Stark's honor. -Jon and Dragon scene was amazing. It kind of makes me realize though why they cut the Ghost scene, maybe the thought it would take a little bit away from his meeting with Drogon. That being said, I hope they fix the direwolf bullshit next year. (No more Ghost rants I promise until after 706). -Glad Gendry is back and hope that one of the surviving Targeryan's left in control by the show's end, legitimatizes him as a Baratheon and the heir to Storm's End -We all want Jaime to break free of Cersei and he was so close until the preg news. It has to happen eventually, right?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9
0
May 8, 2024 14:55:06 GMT -5
Deleted
0
May 8, 2024 14:55:06 GMT -5
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 23:11:52 GMT -5
They didn't mention Gendry knowing Arya in the Inside the Episode either. It might make for some interesting campfire stories north of the wall between the Hound, Gendry and Jon lol Something bothering me about this episode is when Sam says to the Maesters that no one has survived beyond the wall ever and yet a "crippled boy" has....who are the Wildings? Chopped liver? hey were there quite some time and knew about the WWs before they got the hell out. And Craster too. (yeah, yeah, I know I'm letting semantics get to me at this point, but I don't like lazy writing...and it's usually rare with D&D...so when it happens, it really sticks out.) I think he means currently. The wildlings wouldn't have survived if they hadn't fled en masse.
|
|
day dreamer
Syrax
The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.
@queencarol
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 3,653
2017 Golden Dragon Awards: 1 Time Nominee
inherit
68
0
Jun 11, 2020 21:57:01 GMT -5
3,653
day dreamer
The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth.
2,164
Jul 12, 2016 16:29:36 GMT -5
July 2016
queencarol
1 Time Nominee
|
Post by day dreamer on Aug 13, 2017 23:13:35 GMT -5
They didn't mention Gendry knowing Arya in the Inside the Episode either. It might make for some interesting campfire stories north of the wall between the Hound, Gendry and Jon lol Something bothering me about this episode is when Sam says to the Maesters that no one has survived beyond the wall ever and yet a "crippled boy" has....who are the Wildings? Chopped liver? hey were there quite some time and knew about the WWs before they got the hell out. And Craster too. (yeah, yeah, I know I'm letting semantics get to me at this point, but I don't like lazy writing...and it's usually rare with D&D...so when it happens, it really sticks out.) It's like they're deliberately avoiding it and I can't figure out why lol. Yeah, I love how they pretend the free folk don't exist. Sam's essentially married to one. And damn everyone, stop calling Bran a "cripple." It sounds so harsh
|
|