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Post by Diablotion on Jun 29, 2016 10:18:14 GMT -5
In the behind the scenes video the cast talks about tensions between Sansa and Jon. On screen it wasn't so clear and it was very subtle. Will the tension lead to something in S7? What do you guys think?
It's quite funny to see Sansa still being manipulated by LF and he will probably try to turn her against Jon in some stage and I'm really hoping that doesn't happen.
Also Jon should have given Sansa more credit, but it was no surprise that Jon was chosen to be the KitN. Jon got away with deserting the watch and not a single Northern lord is arsed about it. Sansa is the rightful heir, but, well marrying first a Lannister and then a Bolton is not good for your PR. It's going to be interesting to see her upping her game next season.
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Post by sercreighton on Jun 29, 2016 11:03:37 GMT -5
Oh man he drank her milkshake, there will be blood. It's going to be brutal like this.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 29, 2016 12:30:13 GMT -5
In the behind the scenes video the cast talks about tensions between Sansa and Jon. On screen it wasn't so clear and it was very subtle. Will the tension lead to something in S7? What do you guys think? It's quite funny to see Sansa still being manipulated by LF and he will probably try to turn her against Jon in some stage and I'm really hoping that doesn't happen. Also Jon should have given Sansa more credit, but it was no surprise that Jon was chosen to be the KitN. Jon got away with deserting the watch and not a single Northern lord is arsed about it. Sansa is the rightful heir, but, well marrying first a Lannister and then a Bolton is not good for your PR. It's going to be interesting to see her upping her game next season. After seeing this then I can see where the conflict will lie. I don't think Sansa will betray Jon, though I think LF will tempt her. In the end though, she will chose family. But they are probably going to play this up next season.
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Post by Diablotion on Jun 29, 2016 12:31:48 GMT -5
In the behind the scenes video the cast talks about tensions between Sansa and Jon. On screen it wasn't so clear and it was very subtle. Will the tension lead to something in S7? What do you guys think? It's quite funny to see Sansa still being manipulated by LF and he will probably try to turn her against Jon in some stage and I'm really hoping that doesn't happen. Also Jon should have given Sansa more credit, but it was no surprise that Jon was chosen to be the KitN. Jon got away with deserting the watch and not a single Northern lord is arsed about it. Sansa is the rightful heir, but, well marrying first a Lannister and then a Bolton is not good for your PR. It's going to be interesting to see her upping her game next season. After seeing this then I can see where the conflict will lie. I don't think Sansa will betray Jon, though I think LF will tempt her. In the end though, she will chose family. But they are probably going to play this up next season. Yeah, just before the conflict explodes, something big happens and they decide to trust each other.
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Post by moiaf on Jun 29, 2016 12:33:51 GMT -5
After seeing this then I can see where the conflict will lie. I don't think Sansa will betray Jon, though I think LF will tempt her. In the end though, she will chose family. But they are probably going to play this up next season. Yeah, just before the conflict explodes, something big happens and they decide to trust each other. That something could be the offer of an alliance, coming from Tyrion. Even if Dany loses a significant portion of her army to Euron, I think she will still have the largest army in Westeros. Dead things coming, large army to fight it, it's a good alliance and much better than the one LF can give her.
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Post by Envie on Jun 30, 2016 7:44:42 GMT -5
I think the line Sansa gave Jon about "Only a fool would trust Littlefinger" was pretty telling and should put to rest any fears that Sansa is going to fall prey to Littlefinger's manipulations ever again. If anything, she will manipulate him by going along with ideas to a point just to use his influence and the Vale armies but eventually his jig is up.
As for tension between Jon and Sansa, I think that's just a confusing bit of over-exaggeration people grabbed onto for Season 6 before Snowbowl and will probably not be there in Season 7 going forward. They made their peace with one another and they both have learned how important it is to value "The North Remembers" and their Stark heritage.
I do not believe there will be a split between them going forward. Too much is at stake with the greater threat of The Night King's arrival soon.
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Post by konradsmith on Jun 30, 2016 16:34:35 GMT -5
I imagine Jon finding out his actual parentage will be what settles their differences. He won't be an uppity bastard anymore, he'll be very clearly someone of important stock. I think there'll be some push-pull between them in s7 for sure, that's been set up but in the end LF will be vanquished and undone by his carelessness around Sansa. He'll overreach and when she finds out a bit more about LF's role in Ned's downfall, that'll be that.
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Post by Diablotion on Jul 1, 2016 2:02:06 GMT -5
I imagine Jon finding out his actual parentage will be what settles their differences. He won't be an uppity bastard anymore, he'll be very clearly someone of important stock. I think there'll be some push-pull between them in s7 for sure, that's been set up but in the end LF will be vanquished and undone by his carelessness around Sansa. He'll overreach and when she finds out a bit more about LF's role in Ned's downfall, that'll be that.That sounds too good to be true.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 1, 2016 2:20:21 GMT -5
I imagine Jon finding out his actual parentage will be what settles their differences. He won't be an uppity bastard anymore, he'll be very clearly someone of important stock. I think there'll be some push-pull between them in s7 for sure, that's been set up but in the end LF will be vanquished and undone by his carelessness around Sansa. He'll overreach and when she finds out a bit more about LF's role in Ned's downfall, that'll be that.That sounds too good to be true. I think it's inevitable for a few different reasons. Firstly Royce the Voice has declared for Jon (albeit after voicing his Wildling-related misgivings about doing so) so manipulating Robin to threaten him is something LF can no longer count on. Because Robin, even if he's in the North, rather than the Vale won't have the same impunity he would at home. Royce would probably give precedent to his new king than to his idiot liege-lord anyways at this point. So LF's position and control over the Valemen in the North is weak and tenuous at best. So it rests completely on his ability to manipulate Sansa against Jon about his bastardy and her legitimacy and so on. Which once Jon's parentage is revealed, robs LF of even that strategy. And she's already rejected his sexual advances in 610. So if all he has left to go on is creeping on her, her patience for him will run out quite quickly. On top of that we have the likelihood of a bunch of plotlines intersecting in the Riverlands. Arya, BriPod, Sandor, the BWB, Mel and hopefully Edmure may well all meet up in early s7. Which brings up the possibility of Sandor relating to any number of people who intend to head North (which many of them probably will, particularly Arya, BriPod, Beric and Thoros) that LF betrayed Ned in the Throne Room. Which he probably would say if it was mentioned to him that LF was in the North with Sansa, something that Mel would know to tell them. So there's that too. If Sansa was informed of that, that'd be enough to lose whatever sympathy she might still have for him. Then we have the Ghost of High Heart's Sansa prophecy, which I think alluded to a helluva lot more than just her ripping up Robin's doll. So s7 seems about the right time for him to die. The North, unlike the South, doesn't suit his kind of sneaky politicking. His days are numbered.
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Post by Diablotion on Jul 1, 2016 2:36:03 GMT -5
That sounds too good to be true. I think it's inevitable for a few different reasons. Firstly Royce the Voice has declared for Jon (albeit after voicing his Wildling-related misgivings about doing so) so manipulating Robin to threaten him is something LF can no longer count on. Because Robin, even if he's in the North, rather than the Vale won't have the same impunity he would at home. Royce would probably give precedent to his new king than to his idiot liege-lord anyways at this point. So LF's position and control over the Valemen in the North is weak and tenuous at best. So it rests completely on his ability to manipulate Sansa against Jon about his bastardy and her legitimacy and so on. Which once Jon's parentage is revealed, robs LF of even that strategy. And she's already rejected his sexual advances in 610. So if all he has left to go on is creeping on her, her patience for him will run out quite quickly. On top of that we have the likelihood of a bunch of plotlines intersecting in the Riverlands. Arya, BriPod, Sandor, the BWB, Mel and hopefully Edmure may well all meet up in early s7. Which brings up the possibility of Sandor relating to any number of people who intend to head North (which many of them probably will, particularly Arya, BriPod, Beric and Thoros) that LF betrayed Ned in the Throne Room. Which he probably would say if it was mentioned to him that LF was in the North with Sansa, something that Mel would know to tell them. So there's that too. If Sansa was informed of that, that'd be enough to lose whatever sympathy she might still have for him. Then we have the Ghost of High Heart's Sansa prophecy, which I think alluded to a helluva lot more than just her ripping up Robin's doll. So s7 seems about the right time for him to die. The North, unlike the South, doesn't suit his kind of sneaky politicking. His days are numbered. What can Sansa even do to Jon (this is before his parentage is revealed)? Plot and just be nasty? "I should be the QitN.." or will she do something radical? It's kinda odd to see the Vale join the Kingdom of the North. Riverlands will most likely join as well. But yes, you're right by going North LF's influence on Royce has weakened. But Royce did promise his "absolute loyalty" and he's a man of his word. I still believe that Sansa, with the help of good old Bronze Yohn will end LF. We can expect a good old beheading in S7.
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Post by konradsmith on Jul 1, 2016 2:39:56 GMT -5
I think it's inevitable for a few different reasons. Firstly Royce the Voice has declared for Jon (albeit after voicing his Wildling-related misgivings about doing so) so manipulating Robin to threaten him is something LF can no longer count on. Because Robin, even if he's in the North, rather than the Vale won't have the same impunity he would at home. Royce would probably give precedent to his new king than to his idiot liege-lord anyways at this point. So LF's position and control over the Valemen in the North is weak and tenuous at best. So it rests completely on his ability to manipulate Sansa against Jon about his bastardy and her legitimacy and so on. Which once Jon's parentage is revealed, robs LF of even that strategy. And she's already rejected his sexual advances in 610. So if all he has left to go on is creeping on her, her patience for him will run out quite quickly. On top of that we have the likelihood of a bunch of plotlines intersecting in the Riverlands. Arya, BriPod, Sandor, the BWB, Mel and hopefully Edmure may well all meet up in early s7. Which brings up the possibility of Sandor relating to any number of people who intend to head North (which many of them probably will, particularly Arya, BriPod, Beric and Thoros) that LF betrayed Ned in the Throne Room. Which he probably would say if it was mentioned to him that LF was in the North with Sansa, something that Mel would know to tell them. So there's that too. If Sansa was informed of that, that'd be enough to lose whatever sympathy she might still have for him. Then we have the Ghost of High Heart's Sansa prophecy, which I think alluded to a helluva lot more than just her ripping up Robin's doll. So s7 seems about the right time for him to die. The North, unlike the South, doesn't suit his kind of sneaky politicking. His days are numbered. What can Sansa even do to Jon (this is before his parentage is revealed)? Plot and just be nasty? "I should be the QitN.." or will she do something radical? It's kinda odd to see the Vale join the Kingdom of the North. Riverlands will most likely join as well. But yes, you're right by going North LF's influence on Royce has weakened. But Royce did promise his "absolute loyalty" and he's a man of his word. I still believe that Sansa, with the help of good old Bronze Yohn will end LF. We can expect a good old beheading in S7. IIRC the Royces tried to get Lysa to side with Robb against the Lannisters. So it's not out of sorts that he'd declare for them anyways. Ned means a great deal to him personally and Sansa was the reason he ever let LF live in the first place, so yeah, that'll come back to haunt LF. Which I don't think means that the Vale is subservient to the North now but more (that like the Riverlands likely will be when Edmure's restored) that they're inclined to back Stark leadership over Lannister or Targaryen rule.
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Post by Diablotion on Jul 1, 2016 2:43:22 GMT -5
What can Sansa even do to Jon (this is before his parentage is revealed)? Plot and just be nasty? "I should be the QitN.." or will she do something radical? It's kinda odd to see the Vale join the Kingdom of the North. Riverlands will most likely join as well. But yes, you're right by going North LF's influence on Royce has weakened. But Royce did promise his "absolute loyalty" and he's a man of his word. I still believe that Sansa, with the help of good old Bronze Yohn will end LF. We can expect a good old beheading in S7. IIRC the Royces tried to get Lysa to side with Robb against the Lannisters. So it's not out of sorts that he'd declare for them anyways. Ned means a great deal to him personally and Sansa was the reason he ever let LF live in the first place, so yeah, that'll come back to haunt LF. Which I don't think means that the Vale is subservient to the North now but more (that like the Riverlands likely will be when Edmure's restored) that they're inclined to back Stark leadership over Lannister or Targaryen rule. Excellent arguments. Perhaps a kingdom of the North, the Riverlands and the Vale would be a tad too much.
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Post by Envie on Jul 1, 2016 7:19:31 GMT -5
IIRC the Royces tried to get Lysa to side with Robb against the Lannisters. So it's not out of sorts that he'd declare for them anyways. Ned means a great deal to him personally and Sansa was the reason he ever let LF live in the first place, so yeah, that'll come back to haunt LF. Which I don't think means that the Vale is subservient to the North now but more (that like the Riverlands likely will be when Edmure's restored) that they're inclined to back Stark leadership over Lannister or Targaryen rule. Excellent arguments. Perhaps a kingdom of the North, the Riverlands and the Vale would be a tad too much. This is a good point to think about going forward in how the kingdoms will be divided up in the aftermath. Assuming the White Walkers don't wipe out a majority and there's still people left to rule all the various segments, Dany has promised to win back the Iron Islands for Yara to rule herself and has likely made the same sort of pact with Ellaria and Olenna though we didn't get to see that on-screen. She does not want to make the same mistake her Father made and that was made clear in the finale. Her theme as liberator and savior will trump her conqueror inclination is my suspicion. This is important because it supports my theory that she is not going to go to war with Jon/Sansa and the north as many hope for or are guessing. Once Jon's heritage is revealed it will either mean he favors her or at the very least they come to respect their mutual family in the same way ... "We shall do better than our Fathers before us." (And this includes Ned too for Sansa)
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Post by ladystoneboobs on Jul 1, 2016 18:46:36 GMT -5
In the behind the scenes video the cast talks about tensions between Sansa and Jon. On screen it wasn't so clear and it was very subtle. Will the tension lead to something in S7? What do you guys think? It's quite funny to see Sansa still being manipulated by LF and he will probably try to turn her against Jon in some stage and I'm really hoping that doesn't happen. Also Jon should have given Sansa more credit, but it was no surprise that Jon was chosen to be the KitN. Jon got away with deserting the watch and not a single Northern lord is arsed about it. Sansa is the rightful heir, but, well marrying first a Lannister and then a Bolton is not good for your PR. It's going to be interesting to see her upping her game next season. I think it was more that a QitN is an unheard of position, they've never even had a ruling Lady Paramount of the North, which is a much bigger deal than being Lady of Bear Island. I find it hard to believe Sansa actually expected to be named Queen. I can understand feeling a little left that all the Stark love/attention was on Jon, but she seems ambivalent about her ambitions. If she wanted power she needed to speak up for her claim, first to Jon himself, and also to Royce and the other Valemen, who were responsible for the victory and were loyal only to her. No one was just going to hand her a crown, but they might not refuse her rights if the claim was put forward.
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Post by Diablotion on Jul 2, 2016 11:10:33 GMT -5
In the behind the scenes video the cast talks about tensions between Sansa and Jon. On screen it wasn't so clear and it was very subtle. Will the tension lead to something in S7? What do you guys think? It's quite funny to see Sansa still being manipulated by LF and he will probably try to turn her against Jon in some stage and I'm really hoping that doesn't happen. Also Jon should have given Sansa more credit, but it was no surprise that Jon was chosen to be the KitN. Jon got away with deserting the watch and not a single Northern lord is arsed about it. Sansa is the rightful heir, but, well marrying first a Lannister and then a Bolton is not good for your PR. It's going to be interesting to see her upping her game next season. I think it was more that a QitN is an unheard of position, they've never even had a ruling Lady Paramount of the North, which is a much bigger deal than being Lady of Bear Island. I find it hard to believe Sansa actually expected to be named Queen. I can understand feeling a little left that all the Stark love/attention was on Jon, but she seems ambivalent about her ambitions. If she wanted power she needed to speak up for her claim, first to Jon himself, and also to Royce and the other Valemen, who were responsible for the victory and were loyal only to her. No one was just going to hand her a crown, but they might not refuse her rights if the claim was put forward. 100% right. LF was a little naive to say to her that Jon has no chance.
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