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Post by Envie on Jul 17, 2016 11:26:47 GMT -5
And Tyrion as husband? After all, he's returning with Dany. He might have a score to settle with LF as well. Remember the dagger? And the framing for Joffrey's murder? He should be smart enough to figure out that it was LF who tried to get rid of him. As I just posted over in the Season 7 speculation thread, it's going to be an interesting puzzle seeing what happens with Sansa when Tyrion returns. I think I do agree with @fireandblood though that Tyrion won't force the previous marriage with Sansa out of respect for the Starks and all she's been through. Daenerys certainly understands what it's like to have been forced into an unwanted marriage and raped like property so I imagine she'll be eager to see Sansa freed of further restrictions and possibly Lady of Winterfell / Wardeness of the North. It all depends on what direction Jon takes next season I think. He's King in the North but that doesn't mean he's set for the iron throne as there are Queens vying for that right already. As for Littlefinger, I completely agree about Tyrion wanting to settle that score and it's one of my most anticipated future scenes in the story. Tyrion being freed from the hell he went through after Littlefinger framed him for Joffrey's death is a big deal for him. Sansa will be the key there too ... she knows the truth!
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Post by dje on Jul 17, 2016 11:33:20 GMT -5
And Tyrion as husband? After all, he's returning with Dany. He might have a score to settle with LF as well. Remember the dagger? And the framing for Joffrey's murder? He should be smart enough to figure out that it was LF who tried to get rid of him. As I just posted over in the Season 7 speculation thread, it's going to be an interesting puzzle seeing what happens with Sansa when Tyrion returns. I think I do agree with @fireandblood though that Tyrion won't force the previous marriage with Sansa out of respect for the Starks and all she's been through. Daenerys certainly understands what it's like to have been forced into an unwanted marriage and raped like property so I imagine she'll be eager to see Sansa freed of further restrictions and possibly Lady of Winterfell / Wardeness of the North. It all depends on what direction Jon takes next season I think. He's King in the North but that doesn't mean he's set for the iron throne as there are Queens vying for that right already. As for Littlefinger, I completely agree about Tyrion wanting to settle that score and it's one of my most anticipated future scenes in the story. Tyrion being freed from the hell he went through after Littlefinger framed him for Joffrey's death is a big deal for him. Sansa will be the key there too ... she knows the truth! Yea, I would love to see Tyrion play a role in LF's downfall, plus Varys is there as well, and knows all of LF's secrets as well. I don't think Jon could care less about the IT, he may eventually sit on it, but it would be because of what he feels is his duty, not because he wants it. Plus, I think he has attention towards the North, and the impending WW invasion.
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Post by King Tyrion I on Jul 17, 2016 11:36:00 GMT -5
Dany is the game changer. I think she'll sit the IT as well - and it's her reign that will settle some things for Tyrion. Of course, he killed Tywin. But I believe in A+J=T.
What is more, the old proverb goes, "Cuius regio, eius religio". And Dany could do a sort of restoring Tyrion's reputation. After all, he was quite effective as Hand of the King because it was him who devised the plan for the Battle of the Blackwater.
Ad topic: I can see Sansa and Jon getting a bit apart from each other. She's much like Cat.
Sansa has a kind of an open road, and I don't think she'll ever want to be Queen for Petyr "Mockingbird" Baelish. He gave her to the Boltons (as much as I like them). Besides that, he's her uncle now. So that rules out a marriage, doesn't it?
Even with the Targayen marrying their siblings. An uncle-niece marriage would be very frowned upon.
And there are still the Knights of the Vale.
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Post by Lady Sansa's Direwolf on Jul 17, 2016 18:12:08 GMT -5
If there is any justice in Westeros, Littlefinger will die at the hands of many: Sansa, Tyrion, Varys, Daenarys, twenty good men, etc.
I think Sansa may listen to Littlefinger's lies just to keep informed on what he is up to. While Dany is certainly a big game changer, Bran will be as well, if he can get south of the Wall without it fall around him. His information could bring down Littlefinger for many crimes, not the least of which is betraying Ned. How long will Lord Royce and Sweet Robin stay loyal to Baelish when Sansa starts telling the truth about her adventures in the Vale and how she got to the Boltons?
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Post by dariopatke on Jul 18, 2016 0:00:27 GMT -5
My main problem with Sansa this season that I started to care deeply about her when she got saved and her farewell with Theon, when she met Jon and when Pink Letter arrived. After it became clear she has no intention to share that vital info (Mormont and Glover meetings) I was indifferent towards her. After she wrote him a letter I got frustrated. At the beginning of the battle I rolled my eyes (You never ask for my advice. - Fine, what should I do? - I dont know), I hated how Ramsay at least pretended to care about Roose and she didnt even show to care about her brother (goal was to save him), I hated look she gave to Jon when it turned out she was alive (like "Oh here comes another threat"), I hated how she smiled after she killed Ramsay (she is a monster like him now, the day when her brother died and entire Northern army she can smile when seing dogs turn someones face apart.... yeah crazy) and in season if it comes to Stark civil war I am 300% with Jon. I am just curious what would happen when rightful Lord (Bran) arrives. Jon already took her Queenship and Bran will take her Lordship, what will she do? Feed him to the hounds? Push him off the window? And I really really hope this doesnt turn out like it did this season (Sansa rejects Baelish and then begs him for help).
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 18, 2016 0:04:56 GMT -5
My main problem with Sansa this season that I started to care deeply about her when she got saved and her farewell with Theon, when she met Jon and when Pink Letter arrived. After it became clear she has no intention to share that vital info (Mormont and Glover meetings) I was indifferent towards her. After she wrote him a letter I got frustrated. At the beginning of the battle I rolled my eyes (You never ask for my advice. - Fine, what should I do? - I dont know), I hated how Ramsay at least pretended to care about Roose and she didnt even show to care about her brother (goal was to save him), I hated look she gave to Jon when it turned out she was alive (like "Oh here comes another threat"), I hated how she smiled after she killed Ramsay (she is a monster like him now, the day when her brother died and entire Northern army she can smile when seing dogs turn someones face apart.... yeah crazy) and in season if it comes to Stark civil war I am 300% with Jon. I am just curious what would happen when rightful Lord (Bran) arrives. Jon already took her Queenship and Bran will take her Lordship, what will she do? Feed him to the hounds? Push him off the window? And I really really hope this doesnt turn out like it did this season (Sansa rejects Baelish and then begs him for help). I agree with a good portion of this, aside from her smirk when Ramsay died, I like how that mirrored her smiling as she found out she no longer had to marry Joffrey. And I don't think she was upset that Jon was alive, but I really questioned Sophie's acting in that scene and I usually never do. I'm going to hate Jon vs Sansa. I like Sansa as a character quite a bit, but she really suffers when she's near Littlefinger, it's like he casts this completely unlikable shadow over her and all I want her to do is break free. Bran's going to return and be the Lord of Winterfell, and what is she going to do? I want her to play Petyr, but I want it to be at least obvious to the audience that she's fooling him and isn't actually getting pissy with her brothers.
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Post by dariopatke on Jul 18, 2016 0:13:16 GMT -5
I agree with a good portion of this, aside from her smirk when Ramsay died, I like how that mirrored her smiling as she found out she no longer had to marry Joffrey. And I don't think she was upset that Jon was alive, but I really questioned Sophie's acting in that scene and I usually never do. I'm going to hate Jon vs Sansa. I like Sansa as a character quite a bit, but she really suffers when she's near Littlefinger, it's like he casts this completely unlikable shadow over her and all I want her to do is break free. Bran's going to return and be the Lord of Winterfell, and what is she going to do? I want her to play Petyr, but I want it to be at least obvious to the audience that she's fooling him and isn't actually getting pissy with her brothers. Good catch about parallel. But still, her brother died that day and it is one thing to find out you are not going to marry a monster and another to watch dogs eat someones face. It seemed to me, her expression made me think it, but you are right, maybe Sophie failed there, again if I lost a brother that day and my only alive relative turns out alive I would at least smile (again she smiled when Ramsay got eaten and didnt when Jon survived). Me too, we waited to long to havw two Starks together only to have them fighting a civil war. I meam isnt it enough that we had Baratheon civil war and will have Lannister? Oh, and Dornish, but it was more a revolt. I really hope that will happen instead of her scheeming to depose Jon and Bran.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Jul 18, 2016 0:13:47 GMT -5
My main problem with Sansa this season that I started to care deeply about her when she got saved and her farewell with Theon, when she met Jon and when Pink Letter arrived. After it became clear she has no intention to share that vital info (Mormont and Glover meetings) I was indifferent towards her. After she wrote him a letter I got frustrated. At the beginning of the battle I rolled my eyes (You never ask for my advice. - Fine, what should I do? - I dont know), I hated how Ramsay at least pretended to care about Roose and she didnt even show to care about her brother (goal was to save him), I hated look she gave to Jon when it turned out she was alive (like "Oh here comes another threat"), I hated how she smiled after she killed Ramsay (she is a monster like him now, the day when her brother died and entire Northern army she can smile when seing dogs turn someones face apart.... yeah crazy) and in season if it comes to Stark civil war I am 300% with Jon. I am just curious what would happen when rightful Lord (Bran) arrives. Jon already took her Queenship and Bran will take her Lordship, what will she do? Feed him to the hounds? Push him off the window? And I really really hope this doesnt turn out like it did this season (Sansa rejects Baelish and then begs him for help). I really don't think she'll try to kill Jon and Bran. It's definitely true that she's become a darker character from Cersei, LF, and Ramsay's influence, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'll become exactly like them. It goes back to that prophecy that Sansa will slay a giant in a castle of snow, which I still think is referring to her killing LF. There will definitely be some conflict I'm sure between the siblings, but to me that look that Sansa gave to LF made it seem like she was scared of what he might do to Jon. In her mind yes, I think she wanted to become QitN, but she has to realize that she's much safer with Jon than with LF. He's the one that keeps putting the thoughts in her head to betray Jon, but I think she's learned enough that if she tells Royce the truth and maybe learns everything LF has done, she'll choose her family over him.
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 18, 2016 0:23:03 GMT -5
My main problem with Sansa this season that I started to care deeply about her when she got saved and her farewell with Theon, when she met Jon and when Pink Letter arrived. After it became clear she has no intention to share that vital info (Mormont and Glover meetings) I was indifferent towards her. After she wrote him a letter I got frustrated. At the beginning of the battle I rolled my eyes (You never ask for my advice. - Fine, what should I do? - I dont know), I hated how Ramsay at least pretended to care about Roose and she didnt even show to care about her brother (goal was to save him), I hated look she gave to Jon when it turned out she was alive (like "Oh here comes another threat"), I hated how she smiled after she killed Ramsay (she is a monster like him now, the day when her brother died and entire Northern army she can smile when seing dogs turn someones face apart.... yeah crazy) and in season if it comes to Stark civil war I am 300% with Jon. I am just curious what would happen when rightful Lord (Bran) arrives. Jon already took her Queenship and Bran will take her Lordship, what will she do? Feed him to the hounds? Push him off the window? And I really really hope this doesnt turn out like it did this season (Sansa rejects Baelish and then begs him for help). I really don't think she'll try to kill Jon and Bran. It's definitely true that she's become a darker character from Cersei, LF, and Ramsay's influence, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'll become exactly like them. It goes back to that prophecy that Sansa will slay a giant in a castle of snow, which I still think is referring to her killing LF. There will definitely be some conflict I'm sure between the siblings, but to me that look that Sansa gave to LF made it seem like she was scared of what he might do to Jon. In her mind yes, I think she wanted to become QitN, but she has to realize that she's much safer with Jon than with LF. He's the one that keeps putting the thoughts in her head to betray Jon, but I think she's learned enough that if she tells Royce the truth and maybe learns everything LF has done, she'll choose her family over him. Yaaasss please. Maybe Bran returning is maybe what helps sway her? I think LF will try something on Jon, but if it came down to Bran and Jon both being there, he'd go for Bran first.
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Post by dariopatke on Jul 18, 2016 0:24:42 GMT -5
I really don't think she'll try to kill Jon and Bran. It's definitely true that she's become a darker character from Cersei, LF, and Ramsay's influence, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'll become exactly like them. It goes back to that prophecy that Sansa will slay a giant in a castle of snow, which I still think is referring to her killing LF. There will definitely be some conflict I'm sure between the siblings, but to me that look that Sansa gave to LF made it seem like she was scared of what he might do to Jon. In her mind yes, I think she wanted to become QitN, but she has to realize that she's much safer with Jon than with LF. He's the one that keeps putting the thoughts in her head to betray Jon, but I think she's learned enough that if she tells Royce the truth and maybe learns everything LF has done, she'll choose her family over him. I do not think she will necessarily kill him (I was more making a point there) but very well might refuse to save his life or something... I think it will happen, too. But in the books. Show may make her marry stone giant in the castle of snow, but I also dont think this will happen, just saying that with show Sansa it is possible. Jon is Ned 2.0 and if she truly learned anything from Baelish it is that he is controlable and Petyr is not. This is why Ned was offered to be Joffreys Hand (certanly easier to control that Lord Tywin). I sure hope so. I would also like fact that Royce is the one leading army will be important in s7.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Jul 18, 2016 0:37:07 GMT -5
Yaaasss please. Maybe Bran returning is maybe what helps sway her? I think LF will try something on Jon, but if it came down to Bran and Jon both being there, he'd go for Bran first. Yeah I think Bran might be the one to persuade Sansa that LF needs to be removed. I do not think she will necessarily kill him (I was more making a point there) but very well might refuse to save his life or something... I think it will happen, too. But in the books. Show may make her marry stone giant in the castle of snow, but I also dont think this will happen, just saying that with show Sansa it is possible. Jon is Ned 2.0 and if she truly learned anything from Baelish it is that he is controlable and Petyr is not. This is why Ned was offered to be Joffreys Hand (certanly easier to control that Lord Tywin). I sure hope so. I would also like fact that Royce is the one leading army will be important in s7. Yeah possibly. When Theon told Sansa that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, she was ecstatic so I think when Bran comes to Winterfell, that might knock some sense into her. She even convinced Jon to go to Winterfell and try to save Rickon as well as take back their home. But as soon as LF arrived, it definitely through her off a bit. I would hope that Bran becomes Lord of Winterfell and Sansa gets the Vale, which is what I also think will happen in the books now. I feel like Sansa marrying LF would be a step backward for her character and LF told her in the crypts that even the most dangerous man can be outmaneuvered. She even told Jon that only a fool would trust LF too, so either she's setting herself up for failure (which kind of defeats the purpose of her entire arc in the series, if that was the case, I think she would have died in KL) or she's playing LF and will eventually remove him from the game herself. I dunno that's just my theory.
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Post by dariopatke on Jul 18, 2016 0:42:12 GMT -5
Yeah I think Bran might be the one to persuade Sansa that LF needs to be removed. Yeah possibly. When Theon told Sansa that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, she was ecstatic so I think when Bran comes to Winterfell, that might knock some sense into her. She even convinced Jon to go to Winterfell and try to save Rickon as well as take back their home. But as soon as LF arrived, it definitely through her off a bit. I would hope that Bran becomes Lord of Winterfell and Sansa gets the Vale, which is what I also think will happen in the books now. I feel like Sansa marrying LF would be a step backward for her character and LF told her in the crypts that even the most dangerous man can be outmaneuvered. She told Jon that only a fool would trust LF, so either she's setting herself up for failure or she's playing LF and will eventually remove him from the game herself. I dunno that's just my theory. Can happen, very likely. I am just not convinced she cares about him now, just like she didnt care about Rickon (maybe when he spends some time with her this changes, or tells her some visions, I dont know, his visions are heavily influenced wih Ned, maybe he reminds her she is his daughter). I also didnt like that she sent Brienne to sek Riverland soldiers and not to find and protect Arya. What if she marries SR and pulls Marge? She can even manipulate him to make mocking bird fly. I hope she is playing him.
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Post by alcasinoroyale on Jul 18, 2016 0:51:15 GMT -5
Can happen, very likely. I am just not convinced she cares about him now, just like she didnt care about Rickon (maybe when he spends some time with her this changes, or tells her some visions, I dont know, his visions are heavily influenced wih Ned, maybe he reminds her she is his daughter). I also didnt like that she sent Brienne to sek Riverland soldiers and not to find and protect Arya. What if she marries SR and pulls Marge? She can even manipulate him to make mocking bird fly. I hope she is playing him. That's a good point. What is her reaction going to be when Bran comes back? I also kept speculating before the season started that Sansa would send Brienne to try and find Arya. I think that would have worked better and then maybe on the way, she would have ran into McShane's character, the BwB, or Jaime, but yup completely different. Yeah I hope she is playing him too.
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Post by dariopatke on Jul 18, 2016 1:00:56 GMT -5
That's a good point. What is her reaction going to be when Bran comes back? I also kept speculating before the season started that Sansa would send Brienne to try and find Arya. I think that would have worked better and then maybe on the way, she would have ran into McShane's character, the BwB, or Jaime, but yup completely different. Yeah I hope she is playing him too. My guess is reversed from reunion with Jon and start on rocky terms only to progress as time passes instead of start on great terms and regresses. Yes, this just made sense, I would love to see her with Hound again, but who knows, they are both heading North. Off topic, but septon Ray had the best story for me, it was the point of entire series and I am so glad Ian was the actor because I think special attention has to be put on what war means and how pure and good people can be even in darkest times, also how they usually end up in those times and I really liked parallel between him and HS, I could go on and on about it, some of best scenes from this season are his IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 1:01:21 GMT -5
Yeah I think Bran might be the one to persuade Sansa that LF needs to be removed. Yeah possibly. When Theon told Sansa that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon, she was ecstatic so I think when Bran comes to Winterfell, that might knock some sense into her. She even convinced Jon to go to Winterfell and try to save Rickon as well as take back their home. But as soon as LF arrived, it definitely through her off a bit. I would hope that Bran becomes Lord of Winterfell and Sansa gets the Vale, which is what I also think will happen in the books now. I feel like Sansa marrying LF would be a step backward for her character and LF told her in the crypts that even the most dangerous man can be outmaneuvered. She told Jon that only a fool would trust LF, so either she's setting herself up for failure or she's playing LF and will eventually remove him from the game herself. I dunno that's just my theory. Can happen, very likely. I am just not convinced she cares about him now, just like she didnt care about Rickon (maybe when he spends some time with her this changes, or tells her some visions, I dont know, his visions are heavily influenced wih Ned, maybe he reminds her she is his daughter). I also didnt like that she sent Brienne to sek Riverland soldiers and not to find and protect Arya. What if she marries SR and pulls Marge? She can even manipulate him to make mocking bird fly. I hope she is playing him. Why do you think Sansa didn't care for Rickon? Because she told Jon he was going to die? Was she wrong? She was just being realistic there, knowing the type of person Ramsay was and the very real threat Rickon posed to him. And she was upset when she saw his body, the first thing she did when she saw it was very angrily ask Jon where Ramsay was. Because duh, she wanted to kill him for killing her brother.
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